Where is true faith?

Stunnedbygrace · Feb 15, 2018

Okay SOF, go get some sleep and here is the thread for when you come back, although I can't come again until tomorrow evening.

Your question was: where is true faith if one doesn't know God will protect? Or heal? Or deliver?

Sometimes, He doesn't heal a temporal malady. Some don't enjoy robust health.

As for " Or deliver?" - the men thrown in the oven covered it well when they said: our God will deliver us from this fiery ordeal and if not, we still will not worship your God.

They were going to worship God even if He DIDNT deliver them from this temporal ordeal.

So which is true faith - knowing He will deliver us from all hard temporal ordeals or trusting Him even if He one day doesn't?

Blain · Feb 15, 2018

I think this verse might help John 20:29 Thomas replied, “My Lord and my God!” 29Jesus said to him, “Because you have seen Me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”
True enough this is speaking of Thomas seeing Jesus alive after death but I think it also pertains to faith itself. I have never once seen experienced or received healing and there are chains that I bare that I can never hope to break on my own he alone holds the keys and even with all the people who prayed for me they remain as strong as ever. I have every reason not to believe in healing or delivery as I have never seen it or received and even when I begged God in my tears to heal people even going so far as to take their pain sickness upon myself never once has any of my prayers done any good.

Yet I believe anyways not because I have received these blessings but because of what I know of him. I do not put him in a box just because I myself cannot have these things at least not yet, and you know I have actually grown so much closer to him through this than I would have if he had answered my requests because I learned to lean on him and to trust him even in such ordeals.
It is said that courage is not being without fear rather it is being afraid but even so choosing to act, I think the same can be said of faith. I believe that true faith is not being without doubt but choosing to believe regardless.

oldethennew · Feb 16, 2018

the woman with an 'issue' and the woman with the alabaster box,
and of course their are many, many, more true witness accounts -
along with the many that each of us have been blessed with...

MessageOfTheCross · Feb 16, 2018

Stunnedbygrace said:

The only Faith God will recognize is Faith in His Beloved Son Jesus (who He is) and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won (what He has done), i.e., The Finished Work at Calvary's Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus. The work of the Holy Spirit adds to our Faith is placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and the Cross (2 Peter 1:5-7).

Ariel82 · Feb 16, 2018

Stunnedbygrace said:

Even If
MercyMe
LYRICS
They say sometimes you win some
Sometimes you lose some
And right now, right now I'm losing bad
I've stood on this stage night after night
Reminding the broken it'll be alright
But right now, oh right now I just can't
It's easy to sing
When there's nothing to bring me down
But what will I say
When I'm held to the flame
Like I am right now
I know You're able and I know You can
Save through the fire with Your mighty hand
But even if You don't
My hope is You alone
They say it only takes a little faith
To move a mountain
Well good thing
A little faith is all I have, right now
But God, when You choose
To leave mountains unmovable
Oh give me the strength to be able to sing
It is well with my soul
I know You're able and I know You can
Save through…Save through the fire with Your mighty hand
But even if You don't
My hope is You alone
I know the sorrow, and I know the hurt
Would all go away if You'd just say the word
But even if You don't
My hope is You alone
You've been faithful, You've been good
All of my days
Jesus, I will cling to You
Come what may
‘Cause I know You're able
I know You can
I know You're able and I know You can
Save through the fire with Your mighty hand
But even if You don't
My hope is You alone
I know the sorrow, I know the hurt
Would all go away if You'd just say the word
But even if You don't
My hope is You alone
It is well with my soul
It is well, it is well with my soul

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B6fA35Ved-Y

stonesoffire · Feb 16, 2018

Stunnedbygrace;3458946]Okay SOF, go get some sleep and here is the thread for when you come back, although I can't come again until tomorrow evening.

Your question was: where is true faith if one doesn't know God will protect? Or heal? Or deliver?

stones:

yes. One reason why I said that is because of the meetings we just viewed, and what we are hearing in the teachings. Our faith can be stretched with every challenge of Holy Spirit to believe God. That's why I say true faith. Some only have the gift of faith for salvation to come. Heaven. Nothing wrong with this if this is all one wants.

Job didnt ask for God to intervene at any time did he? He accepted all destruction as from the Lord. So he didn't know God. One doesn't know it's the will of God to heal, then one will not ask. Right?

Stunned:
Sometimes, He doesn't heal a temporal malady. Some don't enjoy robust health.

Stones: the question should be what does God want for His own children? The last thing I would do to my kids is to give them a disease to teach them a lesson. The written word is for that purpose. True?

Stunned:
As for " Or deliver?" - the men thrown in the oven covered it well when they said: our God will deliver us from this fiery ordeal and if not, we still will not worship your God.

stones: it's always good to be in submission for He is God and we are not. But, I was speaking of being delivered from demons. This is torment. Takes the very life of one being able to enjoy what should be given to every human being. Same question though. What is the will of Father? The answers are found by looking at Jesus. He came to do the will of God.

Stunned:
They were going to worship God even if He DIDNT deliver them from this temporal ordeal.

Stones:
if God didn't deliver them, there would be no worship. But, I know what you mean. Which worship do you think would be greater? Before, or after deliverance?

Stunned:
So which is true faith - knowing He will deliver us from all hard temporal ordeals or trusting Him even if He one day doesn't?

stones: neither. It's having growth in the gift of faith that we are given. Each time God manifests Himself to us and touches us for our good, our faith rises stronger and stronger. We begin to believe for bigger and greater mountains of life to move. And we are filled with the joy of the Lord.

Love that song Ariel.

Need a bit more sleep from late nights but eventually. Lots going on in our spiritual lives as a couple and neither of us want to miss anything. So thank you.

Now to your post stunned.

stonesoffire · Feb 16, 2018

MessageOfTheCross said:

The only Faith God will recognize is Faith in His Beloved Son Jesus (who He is) and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won (what He has done), i.e., The Finished Work at Calvary's Cross, i.e., The Blood of Jesus. The work of the Holy Spirit adds to our Faith is placed and maintained exclusively in Christ and the Cross (2 Peter 1:5-7).

So you would be the example of passover.

stonesoffire · Feb 16, 2018

Ariel82 said:

Even If
MercyMe
LYRICS
They say sometimes you win some
Sometimes you lose some
And right now, right now I'm losing bad
I've stood on this stage night after night
Reminding the broken it'll be alright
But right now, oh right now I just can't
It's easy to sing
When there's nothing to bring me down
But what will I say
When I'm held to the flame
Like I am right now
I know You're able and I know You can
Save through the fire with Your mighty hand
But even if You don't
My hope is You alone
They say it only takes a little faith
To move a mountain
Well good thing
A little faith is all I have, right now
But God, when You choose
To leave mountains unmovable
Oh give me the strength to be able to sing
It is well with my soul
I know You're able and I know You can
Save through…Save through the fire with Your mighty hand
But even if You don't
My hope is You alone
I know the sorrow, and I know the hurt
Would all go away if You'd just say the word
But even if You don't
My hope is You alone
You've been faithful, You've been good
All of my days
Jesus, I will cling to You
Come what may
‘Cause I know You're able
I know You can
I know You're able and I know You can
Save through the fire with Your mighty hand
But even if You don't
My hope is You alone
I know the sorrow, I know the hurt
Would all go away if You'd just say the word
But even if You don't
My hope is You alone
It is well with my soul
It is well, it is well with my soul

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=B6fA35Ved-Y

What happened with his child? I never heard.

MessageOfTheCross · Feb 16, 2018

MessageOfTheCross said:

...and when I see the Blood I will pass over you...(Exodus 12:13).

Johnny_B · Feb 17, 2018

Since we are talking about the passover is anyone going to eat the sader meal?

Stunnedbygrace · Feb 17, 2018

stonesoffire said:

Sorry SOF, I can't really follow your post. I don't know what meetings and teachings you're talking about..

You say our faith can be stretched - I agree. But it's going through storms that stretches it. No storms and smooth sailing do not lead to growing faith. Faith (trust) is not challenged during times of ease. It is challenged during times of unease and upset and turmoil.

Job didn't know God, I agree somewhat. He had heard of God all his life and knew about sacrifice/blood and knew that sin was a heart matter because he worried one of his children may have sinned inwardly. But I rather look at his belief that it was Gods' hand on him as a pretty big faith, just as David said about the man throwing rocks at him: wait, don't hurt him, if he is throwing rocks at me its because God told him to and God has not let me know what He's doing here.

God gave satan permission to bring storms and testings on Job and God did it to bless Job. And Job WAS blessed because in the end he said, I had only heard about God before but now I have seen and know Him! All of it was worked to Jobs eternal good even though satans goal was harm.

I guess that's enough. Most of your post I didn't follow. The thread began with the statement that God did not give satan permission to buffet Job despite the book opening with exactly that. He DID give permission. It wasn't a blanket permission - satan was given limits each time. It seems absurd to say God didn't give the permission when it plainly says and shows that He DID!

I'd like to get at the reason WHY it is important to anyone to directly contradict what is very plain and apparent. What fear is hidden in someone about God that they either aren't able to articulate, or are unwilling to articulate, that would cause them to directly challenge the word of God and say that He didn't give satan permission to buffet Job when it is very plainly stated that He did...?

When you say the written word is for teaching us, I agree. But it doesn't become solidly ours until we experience and live out the word and the head knowledge.

dcontroversal · Feb 17, 2018

Stunnedbygrace said:

They actually IS ABLE and IF NOT and HE WILL......they covered all bases if you will.....

If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace, and he will deliver us out of thine hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

garee · Feb 17, 2018

Stunnedbygrace said:

True faith is not of our own self it comes from our faithful Creator jesus as the faith of God as it works in us to both will and do His good pleasure (imputed righteousness). As we defend it, it defends us as the armor we are to put on, and not the kind we put on and take off.

Ultimately it’s not about the temporal healing knowing a man must die. The temporal is used to reflect the unseen gospel. Like the healing of the blind having to do with those who are born spiritually blind the same with the lame not walking by faith and the deaf or the poor as those spiritually bankrupt as His main ministry

And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also? Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth. . Joh 9:39

The same with fatherless in respect to our Father in heaven or widows as those not married to Christ. This does not mean we do not care for them but the caring is twofold. Give them bread necessary for the bodies of death but give them the living bread also as a hope that goes beyond what we do see with our eyes

Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: Eph 6:16

Ralph- · Feb 17, 2018

Where is true faith?

Answer: Where there is compassion (love).

Seriously.

The greater faith endures suffering when it has to.

"If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing."-1 Corinthians 13:2

"The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love."-Galatians 5:6

Search

Where is true faith?

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member

Blain

The Word Weaver

oldethennew

Banned

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member

Ariel82

Guest

stonesoffire

Poetic Member

stonesoffire

Poetic Member

stonesoffire

Poetic Member

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member

Johnny_B

Senior Member

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member

dcontroversal

Banned

garee

Banned

Ralph-

Guest