Might God Hurt Others for Our Benefit?

[FenceMan]

I think I already know the answer to this, but I'm still kind of trying to wrap my mind around it.

Something I have experienced twice in my life so far is a situation in which it would seem someone ended up suffering temporarily with the result that a prayer of mine was answered...

Let me explain the situations.

Quite a few years ago while still a teenager in youth group, I wanted to get baptized at the next scheduled baptism service at my church. However, the final deadline to pick up the intent-to-be-baptized application was the same night as the youth group meeting which was held at a different building in town. About a mile away. So I had no way to get over to the church to get the application...

I asked God to help me get the application that night, somehow, if it was really his will that I be baptized. Upon arriving at the "youth center", we were told that one of the teens in the youth band had apparently screamed, vomited, and fell to the floor while practicing! An ambulance was called and she was taken to the hospital. Therefore, the usual youth night was canceled and instead all the youth were meeting at the church to pray for her... So, I got the paperwork and she was released from the hospital very quickly in perfectly fine health. I was baptized at the next service...

Just today, I witnessed a similar situation again related to a prayer of mine. I mentioned in another post that I've been having a very hard time with a co-worker and a delivery man sharing sexual images on their phones and sometimes showing them to me unexpectedly. Valentine's Day, as I feared, was even worse. For whatever reason, this time they were looking at homosexual photos and posts which were supposed to be humorous but were just bad... So today I was dreading work, needless to say.

My co-worker always arrives after me, so this morning I got to work and immediately went to a quiet place to ask God (beg God...) to somehow keep that stuff away from me and even take my co-worker away for a time so I could recuperate spiritually and mentally from the things I heard and saw the day before.

Well, my co-worker did show up, but I had left it up to God so it didn't bother me too much. Things went normally until lunch break when suddenly he received a call from the school that one of his children had hurt herself in gym and needed to be picked up and taken home! Either that or they would call an ambulance and take her to the hospital... So he left very abruptly, and I had the rest of the day alone! When the delivery man showed up, we talked about how to kill bugs in the house and that was it!

So, it would seem that in both these two situations, God allowed someone else to experience physical pain for the sake of myself... But it doesn't really seem fair! Is this how God works, or should I be concerned that my prayers were possibly answered in this way? Maybe it wasn't God at all?...

Then I think about how God loved Israel and remember how He allowed or even directed other people's suffering for their benefit. Does He still work in this way today? I can't think of a New Testament example off the top of my head...

 

[Chester]

On your second story, the first thing I would say is that you should be more up-front with your co-worker about this inappropriate stuff - Quit being a coward and tell them where you are at with the stuff - you do not like it, you won't look at it, and you will not tolerate it!

Might God hurt others for our benefit? Crazy question! Of course it is possible, but there are too many other more important principles going on to even begin to talk about that one. . .

 

[FenceMan]

On your second story, the first thing I would say is that you should be more up-front with your co-worker about this inappropriate stuff - Quit being a coward and tell them where you are at with the stuff - you do not like it, you won't look at it, and you will not tolerate it!

Might God hurt others for our benefit? Crazy question! Of course it is possible, but there are too many other more important principles going on to even begin to talk about that one. . .

Actually, after yesterday I had really had enough and have no intention of letting it continue. So that will resolve in some way soon, hopefully. I still don't know exactly how I'll address it...

I don't think my main question is unimportant... I really would like others' opinions, because it's something I certainly was never told and I can't immediately think of some Biblical examples on this side of the cross.

 

[stillness]

The only Way to answer you is in mystery: Whoever stumbles against Him (Jesus), will be broken. It's more appropriate to say God will hurt you for your benefit and that you may benefit others. Yes we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned with the world. Those who go on to maturity have fellowship in the sufferings of Christ, "Bearing the dying of the Lord Jesus so that the Life of Jesus lives in You." For example the suffering persecution of the church In China has caused the church to grow from 1 million to 100 million, in the last generation: between 70 to 80 years. Congratulations China and the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ always with us and the Father. Amen

 

[Blain]

Hmm... well I suppose it depends. I mean if you had prayed for something against them in ill will then no he would not but it is not unlike him to chasten those who need chastening. I mean he does discipline those he loves and sadly we humans have a long and very abundant history of learning our lessons the hard way and pain and suffering is a great teacher.

But it isn't that he does it out of spite he does it like how you treat your child once they learn and do what they are supposed to do then you relieve them of their punishment. He may have done so merely so that they would do what they know they are to do, and believe me I have experience in this area many times I had to be chastened and it was only when I repented and did what I knew I was supposed to do that the chastening stopped.

 

[Ugly]

Not buying that it's God. The incidents dont seem big enough to justify making children suffer.

Here's a question to consider. IF those have anything to do with God what about the possibility that neither had anything to do with you? Of God acts people not directly involved can be affected. People, generally, tend to view everything revolving around them, and we perceive events around us that way. But I wonder how many things had nothing to do with us but rather we just happened to be there.

 

[oldethennew]

Yes...

ROMANS 15:4.
For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning,
that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope.

all of the OT examples are valid according to the NT...

a NT example is the story of Ananias and Sapphira, they were clearly and rightfully
punished, and the whole Church feared because of this...

 

[finaldesire]

I think I already know the answer to this, but I'm still kind of trying to wrap my mind around it.

Something I have experienced twice in my life so far is a situation in which it would seem someone ended up suffering temporarily with the result that a prayer of mine was answered...

Let me explain the situations.

Quite a few years ago while still a teenager in youth group, I wanted to get baptized at the next scheduled baptism service at my church. However, the final deadline to pick up the intent-to-be-baptized application was the same night as the youth group meeting which was held at a different building in town. About a mile away. So I had no way to get over to the church to get the application...

I asked God to help me get the application that night, somehow, if it was really his will that I be baptized. Upon arriving at the "youth center", we were told that one of the teens in the youth band had apparently screamed, vomited, and fell to the floor while practicing! An ambulance was called and she was taken to the hospital. Therefore, the usual youth night was canceled and instead all the youth were meeting at the church to pray for her... So, I got the paperwork and she was released from the hospital very quickly in perfectly fine health. I was baptized at the next service...

Just today, I witnessed a similar situation again related to a prayer of mine. I mentioned in another post that I've been having a very hard time with a co-worker and a delivery man sharing sexual images on their phones and sometimes showing them to me unexpectedly. Valentine's Day, as I feared, was even worse. For whatever reason, this time they were looking at homosexual photos and posts which were supposed to be humorous but were just bad... So today I was dreading work, needless to say.

My co-worker always arrives after me, so this morning I got to work and immediately went to a quiet place to ask God (beg God...) to somehow keep that stuff away from me and even take my co-worker away for a time so I could recuperate spiritually and mentally from the things I heard and saw the day before.

Well, my co-worker did show up, but I had left it up to God so it didn't bother me too much. Things went normally until lunch break when suddenly he received a call from the school that one of his children had hurt herself in gym and needed to be picked up and taken home! Either that or they would call an ambulance and take her to the hospital... So he left very abruptly, and I had the rest of the day alone! When the delivery man showed up, we talked about how to kill bugs in the house and that was it!

So, it would seem that in both these two situations, God allowed someone else to experience physical pain for the sake of myself... But it doesn't really seem fair! Is this how God works, or should I be concerned that my prayers were possibly answered in this way? Maybe it wasn't God at all?...

Then I think about how God loved Israel and remember how He allowed or even directed other people's suffering for their benefit. Does He still work in this way today? I can't think of a New Testament example off the top of my head...

Kids hurt themselves at school all the time, you have made a connection to something that was inevitably going to happen if you prayed or not.

Why not be bold next time and charge this person with sinful behavior, and notify them of the spiritual consequences. Then if they mock you, God will then "Work that way"

 

[FenceMan]

The only Way to answer you is in mystery: Whoever stumbles against Him (Jesus), will be broken. It's more appropriate to say God will hurt you for your benefit and that you may benefit others. Yes we are disciplined by the Lord so that we will not be condemned with the world. Those who go on to maturity have fellowship in the sufferings of Christ, "Bearing the dying of the Lord Jesus so that the Life of Jesus lives in You." For example the suffering persecution of the church In China has caused the church to grow from 1 million to 100 million, in the last generation: between 70 to 80 years. Congratulations China and the Holy Spirit and Jesus Christ always with us and the Father. Amen

I think a lot of what you say is true. Yet, if a Christian is already suffering (maybe not physically, but spiritually) it wouldn't be all that odd for God to relieve the suffering for a time in answer to a prayer.

If the Chinese Church asked God to change the hearts of some of their leaders toward them meeting together for worship, and somehow through a death or illness this ended up happening, would we say that this is probably not God's doing? Of course not! We would praise God for intervening on their behalf.

 

[FenceMan]

Not buying that it's God. The incidents dont seem big enough to justify making children suffer.

Here's a question to consider. IF those have anything to do with God what about the possibility that neither had anything to do with you? Of God acts people not directly involved can be affected. People, generally, tend to view everything revolving around them, and we perceive events around us that way. But I wonder how many things had nothing to do with us but rather we just happened to be there.

Well, getting baptized is a pretty big event. Especially if you live in certain countries. And this issue at work is a true spiritual battle, which isn't a small thing either.

Yes, both incidents may have had nothing to do with me. But I also don't believe that there are such things as mere consequences. The fact that both these incidents brought about an answer to a prayer of mine the day I prayed it... well, it would be dumb of me to pass it off as random. I mean, why even pray if I'm going to attribute the answer to a prayer to fate?

These incidents happened ten years apart, so I definitely don't think the world revolves around me. Probably 80% of the time I don't get what I ask God for, actually.

 

[FenceMan]

Kids hurt themselves at school all the time, you have made a connection to something that was inevitably going to happen if you prayed or not.

Why not be bold next time and charge this person with sinful behavior, and notify them of the spiritual consequences. Then if they mock you, God will then "Work that way"

I don't know about the girl in the first incident... But yes kids do hurt themselves all the time. However, no, I don't believe that it is necessarily wrong to make a connection between a prayer and a normal human event. This co-worker never has left work early. Yet, the same day I ask God to give me some time away from him and possibly keep him from work somehow, his daughter hurts herself and he has to leave halfway through the day. How can I not consider that an answer to prayer? Wouldn't it be completely irreverent to not even consider it might be God's doing?

God saw it from before the world was created so I know he knew when this girl would hurt herself and that it would be the same day I prayed my prayer. That's how he has everything ordained. We're not robots, but we do live and breathe and have our being in him. Whatever we do, we are doing it within his framework, like it or not.

 

[Shc]

I think I already know the answer to this, but I'm still kind of trying to wrap my mind around it.

Something I have experienced twice in my life so far is a situation in which it would seem someone ended up suffering temporarily with the result that a prayer of mine was answered...

Let me explain the situations.

Quite a few years ago while still a teenager in youth group, I wanted to get baptized at the next scheduled baptism service at my church. However, the final deadline to pick up the intent-to-be-baptized application was the same night as the youth group meeting which was held at a different building in town. About a mile away. So I had no way to get over to the church to get the application...

I asked God to help me get the application that night, somehow, if it was really his will that I be baptized. Upon arriving at the "youth center", we were told that one of the teens in the youth band had apparently screamed, vomited, and fell to the floor while practicing! An ambulance was called and she was taken to the hospital. Therefore, the usual youth night was canceled and instead all the youth were meeting at the church to pray for her... So, I got the paperwork and she was released from the hospital very quickly in perfectly fine health. I was baptized at the next service...

Just today, I witnessed a similar situation again related to a prayer of mine. I mentioned in another post that I've been having a very hard time with a co-worker and a delivery man sharing sexual images on their phones and sometimes showing them to me unexpectedly. Valentine's Day, as I feared, was even worse. For whatever reason, this time they were looking at homosexual photos and posts which were supposed to be humorous but were just bad... So today I was dreading work, needless to say.

My co-worker always arrives after me, so this morning I got to work and immediately went to a quiet place to ask God (beg God...) to somehow keep that stuff away from me and even take my co-worker away for a time so I could recuperate spiritually and mentally from the things I heard and saw the day before.

Well, my co-worker did show up, but I had left it up to God so it didn't bother me too much. Things went normally until lunch break when suddenly he received a call from the school that one of his children had hurt herself in gym and needed to be picked up and taken home! Either that or they would call an ambulance and take her to the hospital... So he left very abruptly, and I had the rest of the day alone! When the delivery man showed up, we talked about how to kill bugs in the house and that was it!

So, it would seem that in both these two situations, God allowed someone else to experience physical pain for the sake of myself... But it doesn't really seem fair! Is this how God works, or should I be concerned that my prayers were possibly answered in this way? Maybe it wasn't God at all?...

Then I think about how God loved Israel and remember how He allowed or even directed other people's suffering for their benefit. Does He still work in this way today? I can't think of a New Testament example off the top of my head...

I think you are just very near and dear to Jesus and he answered your prayers at least. That's just how I feel. I don't think you are coward but rather strong as you sought his refuge and he took care of things for you according to his will.

 

[Shc]

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. 6In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight"

 

[FenceMan]

"Trust in the LORD with all your heart And do not lean on your own understanding. 6In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight"

Thank you for the verse, SHC! And thank you for not calling me a coward...

Rebuking unbelievers for their sin is like demanding an apology from a bee that stung you. They have no true understanding of why what they do is bad, so getting angry or offended does little good. They'll just continue in secret, which may help me, but completely robs me of the opportunity to be a witness to them. Sometimes we have to endure for a time and grow in holiness through the endurance.

 

[Johnny_B]

Baptism being reqired for salvation, if a person died before being baptism after repenting they would still spend eternity with the Lord. Baptism is obedience to the Gospel, I know there are people that place big inferences on Acts 2:38, but if you read on in the book of Acts Peter does not say this again, he teaches that faith/belief leads to remission of sins. There is never again a teaching that seems like baptism brings remission of sins.

 

[FenceMan]

Baptism being reqired for salvation, if a person died before being baptism after repenting they would still spend eternity with the Lord. Baptism is obedience to the Gospel, I know there are people that place big inferences on Acts 2:38, but if you read on in the book of Acts Peter does not say this again, he teaches that faith/belief leads to remission of sins. There is never again a teaching that seems like baptism brings remission of sins.

I agree completely. However, I do think baptism is an important step in the life of a Christian and there is plenty of Biblical support for being baptized.

 

[Ugly]

Well, getting baptized is a pretty big event. Especially if you live in certain countries. And this issue at work is a true spiritual battle, which isn't a small thing either.

Yes, both incidents may have had nothing to do with me. But I also don't believe that there are such things as mere consequences. The fact that both these incidents brought about an answer to a prayer of mine the day I prayed it... well, it would be dumb of me to pass it off as random. I mean, why even pray if I'm going to attribute the answer to a prayer to fate?

These incidents happened ten years apart, so I definitely don't think the world revolves around me. Probably 80% of the time I don't get what I ask God for, actually.

Baptism is somewhat important. But it's not vitally important. So I still don't see God making a child sick just so you can get an application.
So you aren't really here for opinions but support of what you've already decided. Yet you're so unsure of your decision you need to have others back you up.

 

[Johnny_B]

I agree completely. However, I do think baptism is an important step in the life of a Christian and there is plenty of Biblical support for being baptized.

Brother please forgive me I have no idea as to how this post was posted here, I need pray to post in the right thread

Your testimony is awesome brother and the Lord is faithfull when we are faithless!!!

 

[FenceMan]

Baptism is somewhat important. But it's not vitally important. So I still don't see God making a child sick just so you can get an application.
So you aren't really here for opinions but support of what you've already decided. Yet you're so unsure of your decision you need to have others back you up.

Haha Ugly, you just pointed to the very reasons I prayed these prayers to begin with. I can be extremely timid and anxious in social settings, so simple things like asking (as a teen) for a parent to get an application for me or asking (currently) my co-workers to be more polite with what they share is like simply deciding I'm going to climb Mount Everest.

I need God's help daily. Sometimes to even leave my house. There are reasons why, but that is beyond the point.

I asked this here because my faith is often small, so when it seems God moved a "mountain" for me, I initially doubt that He could have possibly done that for inconsequential little me. So I came here looking for some reassurance and Biblical encouragement that what I experienced wasn't necessarily unheard of or unbiblical.

And I don't smell bad either. I take frequent showers.

 

[FenceMan]

Thanks, Johnny! No problem. Yes, I often doubt that my own prayers will be answered, which is faithlessness. But He is faithful anyway!