what the word "grace" will never alter.

[mailmandan]

I love how peter ends this passage, He says the recieved the HS JUST AS WE DID (in the same manner) Which means they to recieved the HS because of their faith, not because of immersion in water.

Amen! Acts 15:7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

 

[Ralph-]

In the end the person who doesn't get water baptized does not believe. Contrary to popular belief, grace does not mean 'I don't have to do that'. The person who believes grace means 'I don't have to do that' and doesn't act on his faith is on his way to sealing his fate with all the others who will go into the lake of fire. In time, through a repeated hardening of the heart through his disobedience and quenching of the Spirit he'll lose the ability to believe and God will turn that person over to their unbelief. And he will be lost on the day Jesus returns.

 

[tourist]

In the end the person who doesn't get water baptized does not believe. Contrary to popular belief, grace does not mean 'I don't have to do that'. The person who believes grace means 'I don't have to do that' and doesn't act on his faith is on his way to sealing his fate with all the others who will go into the lake of fire. In time, through a repeated hardening of the heart through his disobedience and quenching of the Spirit he'll lose the ability to believe and God will turn that person over to their unbelief. And he will be lost on the day Jesus returns.

The thief that was hanging on a cross to the right of Jesus was not water baptized unless it rained that day. He made out OK. He was a believer.

 

[Ralph-]

The thief that was hanging on a cross to the right of Jesus was not water baptized unless it rained that day. He made out OK. He was a believer.

I suppose this would be a good argument for someone claiming that water baptism is legalistically required to be saved. But I don't think anyone makes that argument. But I know the argument for obedience gets heard that way.

The bottom line is, if you aren't following Christ in a life of obedience you aren't ready to meet him when he comes back. Disobedience at the end of the day is nothing more than unbelief.

 

[Chester]

Fair enough, but looks convincing to me. Let him explain himself then.

Does this look like clear-cut proof to you that this person below believes in faith plus works and is watering down the truth?

Hmm...
​

Re post #138

He doesn't even mention faith or works in the quote! LOL! I suppose a person can construe his ideas about law and Gospel to mean that he believes in faith plus works but it is not explicitly said in that quote.

And I surely do not follow what he is trying to say about gospel, 10 commandments, and law????? Of course I was not in on the whole discussion . . .

My opinion . . . .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The thief that was hanging on a cross to the right of Jesus was not water baptized unless it rained that day. He made out OK. He was a believer.

My sister in law had neurofibromatosis, and a brain stent to keep her alive, And could not be baptised no matter what, I guess she is in hell.

 

[DJ2]

Hi ralph,

Through Jesus you receive remission (forgiveness) of sins (rom 3:24ff; Luke 24:47 etc). The gospel is pure simple my friend no need for people to'Add.

Peter does not say anything different, see Peters explanation to Cornelius Acts 10:43. You read to much into Peters statement in Acts 2:38. Peter is not saying that baptism is for the remission/forgiveness of sins. Baptism is the outward sign of the faith of the believer.

Baptism like the Lords supper is a means of grace for those who have already come to Faith! I hope that furthers the point for you.

You read to much into Peters statement in Acts 2:38. Peter is not saying that baptism is for the remission/forgiveness of sins. Baptism is the outward sign of the faith of the believer.

[h=1]Acts 2:38 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)[/h][FONT=&quot]38 Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

How can you write such things with a straight face.[/FONT]

 

[tourist]

I suppose this would be a good argument for someone claiming that water baptism is legalistically required to be saved. But I don't think anyone makes that argument. But I know the argument for obedience gets heard that way.

The bottom line is, if you aren't following Christ in a life of obedience you aren't ready to meet him when he comes back. Disobedience at the end of the day is nothing more than unbelief.

The thing is Ralph I don't believe that everyone that knows and loves the Lord is 100% obedient each and every day. I was baptized as a infant as a Catholic but I guess that don't count. Also, if you were sprinkled with water but not immersed that don't count either. Or if the wrong church or denomination did the baptizing that doesn't count either. Yeah, I find the concept to be legalistic.

I believe from what has been revealed to me by God through His written word at this point of my spiritual journey that a born-again believer is baptized by the Holy Spirit. Funny thing though, even though Jesus was baptized He himself baptized no one. Maybe He belonged to the wrong church or wasn't authorized to do baptize do to legalistic restraints.

 

[DJ2]

My sister in law had neurofibromatosis, and a brain stent to keep her alive, And could not be baptised no matter what, I guess she is in hell.

Our sensibilities do not negate what is written. Period.

 

[DJ2]

The thing is Ralph I don't believe that everyone that knows and loves the Lord is 100% obedient each and every day. I was baptized as a infant as a Catholic but I guess that don't count. Also, if you were sprinkled with water but not immersed that don't count either. Or if the wrong church or denomination did the baptizing that doesn't count either. Yeah, I find the concept to be legalistic.

I believe from what has been revealed to me by God through His written word at this point of my spiritual journey that a born-again believer is baptized by the Holy Spirit. Funny thing though, even though Jesus was baptized He himself baptized no one. Maybe He belonged to the wrong church or wasn't authorized to do baptize do to legalistic restraints.

I believe from what has been revealed to me by God through His written word at this point of my spiritual journey that a born-again believer is baptized by the Holy Spirit

Your esoteric knowledge does not change what is written.

Yeah, I find the concept to be legalistic

Your sensibilities do not change what is written.

Ralph presents scripture, not sensibilities or personally revealed knowledge.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Our sensibilities do not negate what is written. Period.

Our twisting the word of God to suit our doctrinal beliefs does not negate the truth, period.

You earn your salvation. I will rely on Christ. And continue to trust That God is faithful for what he says.

oh, and thanks for condemning a person to hell because she had a medical condition. Your a fine young christian representative (not!)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your esoteric knowledge does not change what is written.

Your sensibilities do not change what is written.

Ralph presents scripture, not sensibilities or personally revealed knowledge.

Lol.. this person will get a rude awakening one day. God will bring to his mind these conversations we have been asking. Lets all just pray he repents before that happens.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Acts 2:38 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)

38 Peter answered them, “All of you must turn to God and change the way you think and act, and each of you must be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins will be forgiven. Then you will receive the Holy Spirit as a gift.

How can you write such things with a straight face.

Well its a good thing we have the greek to know and understand this is one of the worst translations of this passage I have ever seen.

The greek does not say this at all. But if guess placing our eternity in the handsa of a translation is ok.. (not)

 

[tourist]

Your esoteric knowledge does not change what is written.

Your sensibilities do not change what is written.

Ralph presents scripture, not sensibilities or personally revealed knowledge.

From my perspective I find that what is presented is legalistic and not necessary for salvation. That is not to say that water baptism has no value for it has great value in that it is a public declaration of one that has been saved through repentance and contrite confession of sin by relying on the shed blood of Jesus dying on the cross and inviting the Holy Spirit to live in one's heart.

If baptism is required for salvation according to interpretation of scripture than remembering to keep holy the Sabbath as stated in the Ten Commandments is required to be obedient to the Lord too. That's written in the bible also. One can't just pick and choose what to believe and adhere to. I guess this is part of working out one's salvation with fear and trembling. That too is in scripture but I chose not to live in fear but rather trust in Jesus dying on the cross for my salvation.

Once saved, always saved. Fear not, says the Lord. I read that somewhere. I live by it.

 

[stonesoffire]

I suppose this would be a good argument for someone claiming that water baptism is legalistically required to be saved. But I don't think anyone makes that argument. But I know the argument for obedience gets heard that way.

The bottom line is, if you aren't following Christ in a life of obedience you aren't ready to meet him when he comes back. Disobedience at the end of the day is nothing more than unbelief.

You actually stated something i agree with here.

Disobedience is unbelief.

obedience is belief.

The only way to receive anything from the Lord is by faith.

 

[DJ2]

Our twisting the word of God to suit our doctrinal beliefs does not negate the truth, period.

You earn your salvation. I will rely on Christ. And continue to trust That God is faithful for what he says.

oh, and thanks for condemning a person to hell because she had a medical condition. Your a fine young christian representative (not!)

Your arguments are childish.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your arguments are childish.

Making a doctrine on one verse is foolish,

 

[DJ2]

He can speak for himself but I really don't think he's saying water baptism literally pays the price for salvation.

There are things to be done to be saved that are not you trying to buy your salvation. It depends on the sermon you are hearing. If the sermon you hear says get in the water and your sins will be forgiven then that's what you have to do or you're not going to receive salvation.

If a person is told a legitimate, Biblical way of how to get saved and yet they refuse to do it. That person will not receive salvation. And it has nothing to do with water being the payment that buys salvation. It has everything to do with that person not really believing or wanting what he heard.

DJ can tell us plainly if he means water baptism literally pays the required price for salvation.

DJ can tell us plainly if he means water baptism literally pays the required price for salvation.

Okay, here is DJ.

I do not believe in any shape or form that the act of physically being water baptized causes salvation to happen. I do not believe in anyway that water baptism into itself can take away sins. I am plainly stating that water baptism is the required point of the remission of sins as stated in scripture. The remission of sins does not happen before or after water baptism but at water baptism.

Coy responses about death bed conversions and astronauts in space proving water baptism is not needed are childish. We are to follow the word of God, our own sensibilities be damned.

 

[DJ2]

Making a doctrine on one verse is foolish,

I have many verses and you have glittering generalities and esoteric knowledge.

 

[DJ2]

Well its a good thing we have the greek to know and understand this is one of the worst translations of this passage I have ever seen.

The greek does not say this at all. But if guess placing our eternity in the handsa of a translation is ok.. (not)

There's a dozen translations that use this wording and none that that say "because of". What translation is your eternity placed in?