what the word "grace" will never alter.

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Jun 1, 2016
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#1
Grace at no point in time changes this truth, dont be fooled.

John 5 " For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. ( john 6:63)22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: ( John 12:48-50) 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.


24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; ( john 6:68)27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."


theres no doctrine in the scriptures that change this, and the idea that our deeds arent what matters is really a fallacy heres the proof.

Peter.

acts 10 " And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. "



Paul.....acts 17 " And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."

Paul ....romans 2 " 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."

Paul....
2 corinthians 5:10 " For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."


Peter.....1 peter 4 " For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"



Paul .... 2 thess 1 " 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power"



Paul.....galatians 5 " Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."


hebrews 4 " For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."

john ....revelation 20 " And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."



Paul again....ephesians 5 " Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.


3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.


6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them."


Im all for saying " were saved by Grace" when that verse then makes you decline to believe the rest of doctrine that requires of you, its not the grace of God all of the above is simply a true repetetive consistant unchanging doctrine, and Grace saves us when we accept the Grace Jesus gives because the above is true, Grace saves this way

titus 2 "
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


15
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."


salvation comes by Gods grace because it comes through Jesus and His word that teaches the gospel. to accept Grace it has to come through Jesus and it cannot omit His words. its a fallacy when a term we take from scripture , define it and then disregard Gods Word, and spread some different offer of salvation. we do Have every One of us to Face Jesus and Give our account to Him, we will every One be Judged according to Our deeds. Grace doesnt change that, it changes us through repentance and real faith that acts. Jesus says clearly His eternal Judgement, is His gospel.

I thought every christian Knew this, But there really is no other salvation apart from what Jesus offered according to His word. that will never change because thats where Grace exists. God bless you. trust in Gods mercy, but believe Gods word of warning, it is wisdom to do so.










 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#2
Grace is the unmerited favor of God, in which God shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. God's grace cannot be earned by our actions or sincerity. Grace is based on the character of God and not on our sincerity, performance, or ability to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would not be grace.

Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

Gal. 2:21, "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

2 Timothy 1:9, "who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity."

God's grace operates sovereignly in the lives of believers through His enabling power.

1 Corinthians 15:10 - But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

2 Corinthians 1:12 - For our proud confidence is this: the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and godly sincerity, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially toward you.

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Ephesians 2:8 -
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#3
Grace is the unmerited favor of God, in which God shows us mercy, kindness, and patience instead of the judgment that we deserve for sinning against Him. God's grace cannot be earned by our actions or sincerity. Grace is based on the character of God and not on our sincerity, performance, or ability to keep the law. Otherwise, grace would not be grace.

Rom. 11:6, "But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace."

Gal. 2:21, "I do not nullify the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the Law, then Christ died needlessly."

2 Timothy 1:9, "who has saved us, and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was granted us in Christ Jesus from all eternity."

God's grace operates sovereignly in the lives of believers through His enabling power.

1 Corinthians 15:10 - But by the grace of God I am what I am, and His grace toward me did not prove vain; but I labored even more than all of them, yet not I, but the grace of God with me.

2 Corinthians 1:12 - For our proud confidence is this: the testimony of our conscience, that in holiness and godly sincerity, not in fleshly wisdom but in the grace of God, we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially toward you.

2 Corinthians 12:9 - And He has said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for power is perfected in weakness." Most gladly, therefore, I will rather boast about my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may dwell in me.

Ephesians 2:8 -
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Romans 5:1 - Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
Most miss the simple truth that grace is also a position that one is placed into by faith and salvation........

In the grace you are, having been saved out of faith and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast.

A more literal translation......in bolded
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#4
lol how does anything in your post, change the truth that is taken from the same exact epistles?


the problem is you stop at what you want to Hear. grace doesnt change the word of God. all of what you said there, has absolutely nothing to do with this op as it never does. first, you tell me why paul writes these things in His same letters where you pluck the joseph prince gog from. ?

how do you interpret grace, means dont believe anything else in the same chapters lol? dont you at some point get tired of trying to distract and re direct the conversation when you cant address the post? take what the Bible says of Grace, and then reconcile that to the rest, dont assume it contradicts, when paul wrote a letter its Just addressed to the church period, its not like one chapter is to accept and the rest is to be disregarded, all that is is a circular omission of Gods Word, and called " the unmerited gospel of grace" the " true Gospel" lol when the Bible says Jesus is the One appojnted from the beginning to preach the Only Gospel.


Honestly this isnt a post inviting the re treads of the grace website , its foolishness and never has any answers to anything, its really good at defining websters grace....but its foolishness to omit the gospel and call it the true Gospel its a shame How mislead people Get but then again

2timothy 4 " I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables."


john 17:17 " Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.

Grace isnt the great eraser of Gods word thats a deception. when Grace leads a person to believe and follow Gods word....its from God. when it teaches you Gods word doesnt apply to you or isnt going to happen as He said it, its from the other guys mind. simple stuff really if a person Believes.


also the whole " faith in the cross" thing is erroneous. Faith Has to Be in Jesus Christ.
 
D

dalconn

Guest
#5
TITUS 2:11

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men
instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
 
Sep 14, 2017
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#6
>>>>>>>>>>You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to followjesus again.<<<<<<<<<<

Well said.

Don't mind the blind ones, they're just parroting their wares again.

FJ, I believe OSAS & Freegrace to be pretty much the same thing now, just written up a little differently.

Do you agree?
 

MHz

Banned
Feb 14, 2018
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#7
Once a believer knows about grave if he sins with the expectation that grace will cover that sin he is mistaken as that would make grace a work rather than the free gift from god that it is.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,259
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#8
What grace forever altered

God breathed scripture (2 Tim 3:16) proclaims: ALL have sinned (Rom 3:23). And the laws required wage/sentence for sinning is death (Rom 6:23)

ALL have sinned & ALL deserve death

A loving God, full of mercy & GRACE = unearned/undeserved favor. So loved the sinners in the world, he sent his son (Jn 3:16) to redeem/pay the laws required price for thier sin.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence (Sin) of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation (judgment/death) even so by the righteousness of one (Jesus) the free gift (Righteousness) came upon all men unto justification of life

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's (Adam) disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Jesus Christ) shall many be made righteous.

Grace has a name = Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(NOTE: Thru God's undeserved gift = Jesus Christ. And by a sinless Christ faithful obedience unto death. We can receive a full pardon for our sins)

We access Gods Grace thru Faith (Rom 5:2) placed in Christ's finished redemptive sin atoning sacrificial work. Found in Christ's death(sins required wage paid), burial & resurrection(God's receipt, payment received & accepted). Then God imputes/transfers Christ's righteousness onto us & transfers/imputes our sins onto Christ. See this process in Lev 4 & Rom 4:22-24)

Additional Faith scripture:

Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by """his""" faith.
(NOTE: The just shall live by "HIS" faith)

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's (Adam) disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Jesus Christ) shall many be made righteous.
(NOTE: Thru Christ's disobedience many shall by made righteous)

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are """sanctified by faith that is in me""""
(NOTE: Jesus said, Paul I send you, to the gentiles. So, they may receive forgiveness of sins & an inheritance among them which are sanctified by FAITH THAT IS IN ME!""")

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by "faith of Jesus Christ" unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(NOTE: The Faith OF Christ)

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the "faith of Christ" and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(NOTE: It's the Faith OF Christ and thru the righteousness of Christ's faith. Christ becomes the Lord our righteousness. And God justifies us "Declares us Righteous in His sight)

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed """from faith to faith"""": as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

It's Christ's faithful work & our faith/belief/trust placed in HIM.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
4,273
1,410
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#9
I was lost and far from God - a sinner in great and desparate need of help!

I came to Christ just as I was - naked, vile, and helpless . . . as I came to Him His grace enveloped me and empowered me: He gave me the gift of faith and I believed in Him. I became a new creature in Christ Jesus.

But that initial saving grace was not all - I continue to need His grace every day - I continue to believe and lean on my Redeemer! Hallelujah! Now not only is my sin forgiven, but God's Spirit in me gives the power to live above sin and overcome sin! Hallelujah. Slowly I am becoming more and more like Christ and I being make into His workmanship and into His image.

The word grace never alters:
(1) That I ongoingly need God's grace, power, and forgiveness
(2) That never will I be able to do good deeds without Him
(3) That God loves me
(4) That outside of God's ongoing grace in my life I would never make heaven

Grace, grace, oh, twas Grace that saved a sinner like me . . .
 

MHz

Banned
Feb 14, 2018
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#10
The NT uses the term 'grace' and the OT uses the term 'mercy', 'What is the difference?'
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#11
Once a believer knows about grave if he sins with the expectation that grace will cover that sin he is mistaken as that would make grace a work rather than the free gift from god that it is.

How does that change what God has said in every book of the bible that He will judge each person according to thier deeds? isnt this a bible discussion forum? why then, is it so difficult for people here to discuss what the Bible actually says, rather than explaining How grace makes it all insignificant?

why would God lie throughout His word about the coming Judgement? why would paul consistantly put it in His epistles? why Would John, Peter , Jesus solomon, Isaiah, Zechariah, Joel, all speaking fromk the Holy spirt keep saying all along " God is going to judge the earth according to righteousness? why does paul say " He has apponted a day in which He will judge the earth through Jesus Christ" why does Paul teach very clearly " each man will receive according to thier deeds whether good, or bad?


the word " grace" doesnt change what is written. when it does, its because a person is taking the term " grace" and then deciding what that should mean to them, rather than accepting it ac God has set it forth. the same warnings are in every bible, it seems odd how a 500, 000 dollar man began preaching his gog 20 years ago, and everything He has taught people is that Gods word really doesnt apply to you because of what im explaining it really means.


he got rich, and all His believers now......simply cannot accept the word of Jesus Christ. because of the " grace lens" and the " work of the cross lens" Jesus Christ provides the understanding and " interpretations" of everything God has to say, its why He was sent. the cross is certainly an essential part of chruistian doctrine, has to be accepted and believed. what it doesnt do, is change His word.

matthew 16:27 " For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

what works should be the inquiry not an argument against the works were supposedly created to walk in..... when a person resists the good works, its because they have not heard the gospel. and they refuse to accept the truth about Judgement to come sort of Like when Paul preached to felix and he loked Hearing about Grace, but then paul started talking about eternal Judgement, and repentance..lol then felix says " ok ok, you go back to your cell and i might call for you at a later time"

People dont Like to Hear the truth, but its still the truth. its not something People should refuse to believe given its Gods word and isnt a 5 year old grace alone book,
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#12
I was lost and far from God - a sinner in great and desparate need of help!

I came to Christ just as I was - naked, vile, and helpless . . . as I came to Him His grace enveloped me and empowered me: He gave me the gift of faith and I believed in Him. I became a new creature in Christ Jesus.

But that initial saving grace was not all - I continue to need His grace every day - I continue to believe and lean on my Redeemer! Hallelujah! Now not only is my sin forgiven, but God's Spirit in me gives the power to live above sin and overcome sin! Hallelujah. Slowly I am becoming more and more like Christ and I being make into His workmanship and into His image.

The word grace never alters:
(1) That I ongoingly need God's grace, power, and forgiveness
(2) That never will I be able to do good deeds without Him
(3) That God loves me
(4) That outside of God's ongoing grace in my life I would never make heaven

Grace, grace, oh, twas Grace that saved a sinner like me . . .

isnt it Jesus who saved and changed you?

john 1 " And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth. ...v16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. "


Grace is something indeed we need daily, it exists in Christ, therefore we have to Have Jesus Christ every moment, grace is a benifit of our relationship with Jesus, our discipleship of Jesus. like the op said " Im all for saying were saved by Grace"

when that translates as the need to omit everything the bible says throughout, its not Gods Grace. He will never lead anyone away from what He said through the Lord Jesus Christ. so when Grace doesnt rewuire omittance of truth, its daily bread, when its taught as the reason to not believe Jesus word, its corrupt fruit to feed from
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#13
The NT uses the term 'grace' and the OT uses the term 'mercy', 'What is the difference?'

tHE ot began using the word Grace, in Genesis 6:8. when God had grace toward Noah, and then warned Him of the flood coming. then he gave noah instructions, and strangely Noah actually believed Gods warning, and obeyed Gods instructions and was saved. genesis 6:8-22 who by the way became the heir of the righteousness that is by Faith" that paul talks of.

hebrews 11 " But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. 7By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith."


its not only grace, its by Grace Like noah, God had grace to him so He warned Him. Noah believed Gods warning of what He could not see coming, But God said it and He believed. His actions were because He believed. thats why he obeyed Gods instructions, He had faith.


its not the term Grace thats new or different, its people parting from the biblical offer of Grace, within Gods word, and extracting the term Grace and re writing the bible by explaining what you need to omit because of thier definition of Grace and How it applies to you, and How nothing else does apply.


its all a mirage based on a guy who defines the Bibles message as " unwarranted favor if you have to do anything its not grace" the bible teaches on almost every page, what man is to do, and what man is not to do. also whether you are reading pauls epistles, or the gospel, there is present and clear the consequences of our actions regarding the truth we have been Given, and the sacrifice that Has been made.

Man was created in Gods favor. he made us for the purpose of having dominion genesis 1 blessed us and Loved us not because we deserved it, But Because God is gracious its part of His nature and character Just Like Jesus forgave those who deserved condemnation, God is gracious indeed from Beginning to end. even on the Law of Moses, God gave them Grace when Moses asks for it. many times over they all deserved to be utterly destroyed, and God relented not because they deserved it it was unwarranted mercy on them also when He spared them for instance when He commanded that moses Make the brazen serpent so they could survive the deadly vipers they brought upon themselves.

that was gracious they had earned the deadly vipers by thier deeds, and God when they asked for mercy, provided them salvation from the vipers bite. God has always been gracious and merciful to man. its what sustained us until Christ came revealing the truth of God and the full measure of is Grace toward us. God hasnt changed even a little bit, its Just that He has revealed Himself slowly to mankind, and then finally at the Gospel, we see Who God is, How He Loves us, How Gracious He is to us, that He is not against us, He is for us, He is not looking to condemn us, but to spare us from what is coming on creation...Like the flood


 
Jun 1, 2016
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#14
What grace forever altered

God breathed scripture (2 Tim 3:16) proclaims: ALL have sinned (Rom 3:23). And the laws required wage/sentence for sinning is death (Rom 6:23)

ALL have sinned & ALL deserve death

A loving God, full of mercy & GRACE = unearned/undeserved favor. So loved the sinners in the world, he sent his son (Jn 3:16) to redeem/pay the laws required price for thier sin.

Romans 5:18 Therefore as by the offence (Sin) of one (Adam) judgment came upon all men to condemnation (judgment/death) even so by the righteousness of one (Jesus) the free gift (Righteousness) came upon all men unto justification of life

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's (Adam) disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Jesus Christ) shall many be made righteous.

Grace has a name = Jesus Christ.

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
(NOTE: Thru God's undeserved gift = Jesus Christ. And by a sinless Christ faithful obedience unto death. We can receive a full pardon for our sins)

We access Gods Grace thru Faith (Rom 5:2) placed in Christ's finished redemptive sin atoning sacrificial work. Found in Christ's death(sins required wage paid), burial & resurrection(God's receipt, payment received & accepted). Then God imputes/transfers Christ's righteousness onto us & transfers/imputes our sins onto Christ. See this process in Lev 4 & Rom 4:22-24)

Additional Faith scripture:

Hab 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by """his""" faith.
(NOTE: The just shall live by "HIS" faith)

Rom 5:19 For as by one man's (Adam) disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one (Jesus Christ) shall many be made righteous.
(NOTE: Thru Christ's disobedience many shall by made righteous)

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are """sanctified by faith that is in me""""
(NOTE: Jesus said, Paul I send you, to the gentiles. So, they may receive forgiveness of sins & an inheritance among them which are sanctified by FAITH THAT IS IN ME!""")

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by "faith of Jesus Christ" unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(NOTE: The Faith OF Christ)

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the "faith of Christ" and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(NOTE: It's the Faith OF Christ and thru the righteousness of Christ's faith. Christ becomes the Lord our righteousness. And God justifies us "Declares us Righteous in His sight)

Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed """from faith to faith"""": as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

It's Christ's faithful work & our faith/belief/trust placed in HIM.

so if our Belief trust faith ect is placed in Him, why is the message dont believe what He said? its contradictory to say " Jesus is where all my Faith, Hope trust is" and then refuse to accept what He taught.


Grace does not change the rest of the epistles you chose those verses from, those are letters, like if you write a letter to someone, they should read the whole thing carefully and not omit the rest of what you are saying, based on a couple sentances. the idea that " Grace" changes anything that Gods word continues saying again and again, is faulty. the idea that Grace began at the cross, is faulty, the idea that Jesus words end at the cross is faulty, the idea that sin is irrelevant whether we do it, or not is faulty.

Graces is not what erases everything it saves because Gods grace Teaches a person to repent and Live right before God now. thats How it saves, Grace doesnt change God it changes man. the word Grace isnt what helps us either, its accepting the grace God sent in Christ that saves us. Grace according to His explaination.


again i would ask you to address why the doctrine is consistant whether Jesus, solomon, Paul, peter, John ect.... if Grace means our deeds no longer matter, then How is it just that God would judge anyone ? How is paul teaching us that grace is everything, no one is accountable, were all saved already. and also teaching the things that are actually written in His epistles Like eternal Judgement according to Our deeds? why would paul teach such a fallacy in the same letter He is saying " you are saved by Grace" He is sating " but you must no longer do these sinful deeds i have warned you again and again, those who do these things will not inherit the Kingdom of God, the wrath of God is coming upon the disobedient do not be partakers with them"

was paul also misunderstanding His doctrine of do not do anything or you have fallen from Grace? the word Grace has been distorted and made to be something it is not, its a gift that comes to those in Christ. if it is in Christ its Gods grace, when it rewuires one to part from Christ its not.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
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#15
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 14:12-13, “Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and the belief of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, Write, Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on. Yes, says the Spirit, in order that they rest from their labors, and their works follow with them.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Revelation 22:11-15, “He who does wrong, let him do more wrong; he who is filthy, let him be more filthy; he who is righteous, let him be more righteous; he who is set-apart, let him be more set-apart. And see, I am coming speedily, and My reward is with Me, to give to each according to his work. “I am the ‘Aleph’ and the ‘Taw’, the Beginning and the End, the First and the Last. Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates into the city. But outside are the dogs and those who enchant with drugs, and those who whore, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and all who love and do falsehood.”[/FONT]
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
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#16
fj,

You are fighting a uphill battle. The majority here are either neck deep into faith alone regeneration theology or borderline universalist. You make a valid but unpopular point. They will parrot the same generalities over and over again.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#17
The NT uses the term 'grace' and the OT uses the term 'mercy', 'What is the difference?'
Mercy-not getting what you deserve.

Grace-getting what you don't deserve.


By the way, where did you get that picture of an Eskimo standing in front of an igloo?
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,703
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#18
Grace at no point in time changes this truth, dont be fooled.

John 5 " For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will. ( john 6:63)22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: ( John 12:48-50) 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.


24Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.


25Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. 26For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; ( john 6:68)27And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. 28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."


theres no doctrine in the scriptures that change this, and the idea that our deeds arent what matters is really a fallacy heres the proof.

Peter.

acts 10 " And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. 43To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

44While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. 45And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. "



Paul.....acts 17 " And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: 31Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead."

Paul ....romans 2 " 5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God; 6Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, 9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; 10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: 11For there is no respect of persons with God."

Paul....
2 corinthians 5:10 " For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."


Peter.....1 peter 4 " For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?"



Paul .... 2 thess 1 " 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: 9Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power"



Paul.....galatians 5 " Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God."


hebrews 4 " For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do."

john ....revelation 20 " And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."



Paul again....ephesians 5 " Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; 2And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.


3But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; 4Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. 5For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.


6Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. 7Be not ye therefore partakers with them."


Im all for saying " were saved by Grace" when that verse then makes you decline to believe the rest of doctrine that requires of you, its not the grace of God all of the above is simply a true repetetive consistant unchanging doctrine, and Grace saves us when we accept the Grace Jesus gives because the above is true, Grace saves this way

titus 2 "
For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.


15
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."


salvation comes by Gods grace because it comes through Jesus and His word that teaches the gospel. to accept Grace it has to come through Jesus and it cannot omit His words. its a fallacy when a term we take from scripture , define it and then disregard Gods Word, and spread some different offer of salvation. we do Have every One of us to Face Jesus and Give our account to Him, we will every One be Judged according to Our deeds. Grace doesnt change that, it changes us through repentance and real faith that acts. Jesus says clearly His eternal Judgement, is His gospel.

I thought every christian Knew this, But there really is no other salvation apart from what Jesus offered according to His word. that will never change because thats where Grace exists. God bless you. trust in Gods mercy, but believe Gods word of warning, it is wisdom to do so.










A person can't do anything to affect their salvation but be obedient to faith if you are talking about salvation, and If you are talking about our walk after salvation then the person has been equipped by GOD and by HIS mercy and Grace we should present our body a living sacrifice which Is reasonable since GOD has made your spirit perfect and sealed you so that we may prove what Is that good and acceptable and perfect will of GOD.

Remember when James said show me your faith without your works and I will show you my faith by my works.
The only way a man or women can show his/her faith by his/her works to another man/women Is to use his/her body.
 
Jun 1, 2016
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#20
TITUS 2:11

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation to all men instructing us to deny ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously and godly in the present age,looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds."


agreed, Now where does grace teach us anything that teaches us to deny sinful desires, to repent and Live upright hinorable Lives in response to what Jesus did, that brought us into Grace. the grace that offers salvation came when Jesus began preaching. Ihave zero issue with actual Grace of God, I have every issue when Grace changes the word of God, and pretends to omit Jesus words on the matter of salvation. and the inderstanding that Grace, does not omit the coming Judgement we will all give account before Jesus as paul taught so clearly along with every other book in the bible basically. Grace is not what people try to make it. if it doesnt support and lead to repentance and acceptance of Gods instructions that teach.....then Like in eden its the kind of " grace" that will lead to death. Grace as in the scriptures you quote, saves us by t4eaching us the importance of denying Lust, and parting from iniquity thats what those verses say Jesus died to accomplish, to redeem us from our sinful deeds, and purify us to actually Look for good works to do in His Name, rather than spreading the ideology " anyone who accepts Gods word for what it is, has fallen from Grace" its sort of a strange idea that grace on One hand, rewuires nothing of the recipient, yet the design of Gods grace and truth is to consume the person and purify them through belief in the truth, while standing in Grace.


when anyones doctrine, is based first and foremost that Jesus words do not apply to the gospel before the cross, then omits every promise God made through Christ for eternal Life. Grace and Gods goodness and patience towards us is for the purpose of actually redeeming us from sin and its consequences. anything man is or can have or be is because of Gods Grace, He has ever been gracious, its only that we Hid from His presence because of our sin and shame, Our fear and satan made us see Him as a vengeful God that will recompense every deed upon His beloved childrens Head.

those two doctrines dont mix. because judaism is based on mans rebellion against God, it is every word based on terror of what God will do if they do not obey. this is the design of the covenant at horeb, they ask God for it in great fear of His presence. the gospel is all different, its the reality of Gods will for us rather than Our will for us. we have to repent of our sins, Grace is meant to teach us that truth, but it doesnt happen when we refuse to Hear the gospels teachings. those are sanctification Just by believing them in the heart they lead us when we need undertanding or guidance and become part of us because Jesus, who taught them, then showed us His great Love and intention for us.

john 1 " But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth. ...v16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

Grace is fully revealed in Christ before God was gracious, its truth is found when Jesus begins His ministry the gospel is founded upon the words of Jesus, thats a basic christian Understanding or at least 25 years ago it was, Now days its more guarded as a herecy to Believe the One who died...sad really

Gods Grace as Jesus presented it will do this

titus 2 " For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, 12Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; 13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; 14Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
15These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."


when we understand Jesus is there to forgive us and cleanse us, by His words, and also accpet the teachings He was sent to give the world, it works in us to change the things we cant because they are in the heart. where Jesus word is power to overcome sin at its root. Christianity is actually about changing people from not so special, to children of God in deed and truth. ultimately Knowing Jesus Christ and accepting His word, it is never found when His word is rejected and a different salvation is preached.


we have to accept the Lords Word for things, it will not condemn us, but it will sever things we probably dont want to give up at times.......Mercy is renewed every day, His mercy endures forever" that as Judgement is also true from beginning to end God always gives us grace and patience and longsuffering. He has given us forebearance for sin since the flood. God simply doesnt change mans understanding was corrupted in the beginning Jesus teaches the truth of God to Us.