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Well I was taught that our heart is not a dovecot from which Holy Spirit flies in and out in alternation with evil spirits.
So I believe, that there is only so much place in my heart either for Holy Spirit or for something else.
But not both. I dont think Holy Spirit woudl dwell with something unclean.
I could be wrong of course.
There is this parable in Matthew 12
43 When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, “I will return to the house I left.” When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first...
So for me this implies, that only into empty house (heart) could something (some spirit) enter in ....
If Holy Spirit dwells in me (and He does in born again Christians), than it is impossible for someone else to enter..
So I believe, that there is only so much place in my heart either for Holy Spirit or for something else.
But not both. I dont think Holy Spirit woudl dwell with something unclean.
I could be wrong of course.
There is this parable in Matthew 12
43 When an impure spirit comes out of a person, it goes through arid places seeking rest and does not find it. 44 Then it says, “I will return to the house I left.” When it arrives, it finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order. 45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that person is worse than the first...
So for me this implies, that only into empty house (heart) could something (some spirit) enter in ....
If Holy Spirit dwells in me (and He does in born again Christians), than it is impossible for someone else to enter..
When it comes to so called Deliverance ministry, I heard mostly sad things ...
Like brother in Christ in his previous church was catching people falling down and doing that he hurt his back so much, that he has till today back problems...
Beside the fact that it is ironical paradox I don't think this should be the right way of serving God
Like brother in Christ in his previous church was catching people falling down and doing that he hurt his back so much, that he has till today back problems...
Beside the fact that it is ironical paradox I don't think this should be the right way of serving God
P
Obsession, depression, possession, are as real today as it was in yesteryears. To blame demonic influence for these things and self prescribed a needed deliverance is not scriptural. No where do I see where Jesus is asked by anyone to deliver them from demonic affliction.
I do see however Jesus being led to people that are affected.
Our flesh constantly wars with the spirit because it lives by the 5 senses we were born with. When these senses our not stimulated to our fleshly satisfaction the war begins. Addiction, lust, hatred, ect. It demands to be fed.
Jesus said "we must
be born again. When we are born again that just doesn't mean our view points have changed and we choose christ as truth.
We are given a new heart, a new hope, a new purpose, and even a new place to reside....the kingdom. These things are real and made manifest by the Holy Spirit which now also abides in you.
These are spiritual things that are but are yet to come.
Possession is when a evil spirit enters in and prohibits a person of free choice consuming it's host with evil thoughts and actions to pre occupy but never satisfy the fleshy desires .....imo. which can be only discerned by the holy spirit.
So how can one know to go to Christ when they are not given a choice?........just my opinion.
I've been corrected before so feel free....lol.
Potter
I do see however Jesus being led to people that are affected.
Our flesh constantly wars with the spirit because it lives by the 5 senses we were born with. When these senses our not stimulated to our fleshly satisfaction the war begins. Addiction, lust, hatred, ect. It demands to be fed.
Jesus said "we must
be born again. When we are born again that just doesn't mean our view points have changed and we choose christ as truth.
We are given a new heart, a new hope, a new purpose, and even a new place to reside....the kingdom. These things are real and made manifest by the Holy Spirit which now also abides in you.
These are spiritual things that are but are yet to come.
Possession is when a evil spirit enters in and prohibits a person of free choice consuming it's host with evil thoughts and actions to pre occupy but never satisfy the fleshy desires .....imo. which can be only discerned by the holy spirit.
So how can one know to go to Christ when they are not given a choice?........just my opinion.
I've been corrected before so feel free....lol.
Potter
7
Hi Chavah
well this thread was about whether or not those who call themselves deliverance ministers have an actual ministry
the Bible does tell us that demonic spirits do exist and they can do many things but they cannot possess a believer...they can harass and so on, but if we are Christs', then certainly they cannot own us
Jesus simply said to cast them out...whether or not they are inside or outside I guess, in the end, does not matter so much as long as we are free of them
there are many things that can happen when people believe they have a special mission to fight demons
and deliverance ministers do hurt people
Christians do have to understand that these things are in the world but Jesus has overcome the enemy for us and we are more than conquerors in Him
thanks
well this thread was about whether or not those who call themselves deliverance ministers have an actual ministry
the Bible does tell us that demonic spirits do exist and they can do many things but they cannot possess a believer...they can harass and so on, but if we are Christs', then certainly they cannot own us
Jesus simply said to cast them out...whether or not they are inside or outside I guess, in the end, does not matter so much as long as we are free of them
there are many things that can happen when people believe they have a special mission to fight demons
and deliverance ministers do hurt people
Christians do have to understand that these things are in the world but Jesus has overcome the enemy for us and we are more than conquerors in Him
thanks
7
Hi Potter
well the only thing I think a correction would help is the overuse of the word 'possession'. people tend to use the word in a way not intended by the original authors and it is really helpful to see what is really being said
the actual meaning has been reversed in many translations...it should mean that the person has the demon or possesses the demon and not the other way around
also, I don't believe scripture indicates a Christian can be so overtaken with demonic influence that they cannot make decisions or are not in control of themselves, but they can be in a situation, through sin or even the sin of others, where they do need to deal with demons and be free of them
I would agree that many are bound by the devil (demons...devil is not omnipresent) and that, IMO,can also be a believer who has given over to sin too many times or becomes saved and needs to understand the fight is a spiritual one
there is really way too much to condense it all here, but as far as actual deliverance ministers go, I do not see where there is a standard in scripture that says this is a stand alone ministry...actually Christians as individuals are supposed to know how to deal with situations that arise or be able to help those who need it
dealing with demons is supposed to be a part of ministry and not the be all and end all
anyway, there really are alot of verses in the NT telling us to be aware of deception , false teaching etc...doctrines of demons...thing is, many people just pass it over or think a Christian cannot be bothered...but we would not be told to be aware of the devil's tactics if that were so
end result though, should be to keep our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith
well the only thing I think a correction would help is the overuse of the word 'possession'. people tend to use the word in a way not intended by the original authors and it is really helpful to see what is really being said
the actual meaning has been reversed in many translations...it should mean that the person has the demon or possesses the demon and not the other way around
also, I don't believe scripture indicates a Christian can be so overtaken with demonic influence that they cannot make decisions or are not in control of themselves, but they can be in a situation, through sin or even the sin of others, where they do need to deal with demons and be free of them
I would agree that many are bound by the devil (demons...devil is not omnipresent) and that, IMO,can also be a believer who has given over to sin too many times or becomes saved and needs to understand the fight is a spiritual one
there is really way too much to condense it all here, but as far as actual deliverance ministers go, I do not see where there is a standard in scripture that says this is a stand alone ministry...actually Christians as individuals are supposed to know how to deal with situations that arise or be able to help those who need it
dealing with demons is supposed to be a part of ministry and not the be all and end all
anyway, there really are alot of verses in the NT telling us to be aware of deception , false teaching etc...doctrines of demons...thing is, many people just pass it over or think a Christian cannot be bothered...but we would not be told to be aware of the devil's tactics if that were so
end result though, should be to keep our eyes on Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith
7
7,
you have done really good works in this Thread - TY...
as far as we are concerned, we saw his mask begin to fall many ages/pages ago.
please create another interesting/ teaching Thread to learn from...
you have done really good works in this Thread - TY...
as far as we are concerned, we saw his mask begin to fall many ages/pages ago.
please create another interesting/ teaching Thread to learn from...
thanks
I started this thread because of a comment made to someone in another thread that just got me really steamed because of how hurtful it was...maybe you saw it? don't know
anyway, I am so up to here with people posturing about all their special knowledge, ministries and blah blah blah
I don't think I have said this in the forums before, but I believe that the devil sets up many believers to think they have a special calling, are somehow above others or are extra anointed or things similar that appeal to the ego
it is disheartening to see people who think this as they trot on down the road, not caring who they hurt in their wake
how bout we all participate in a thread about the armor?
I don't really have time today, alot of work right now, but I think it would be interesting to search through both testaments and see what develops...there seems to be alot of metaphors and so on
hopefully, it won't blow up....
Here's my scripture:
Luke 13
10And He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath. 11And there was a woman who for eighteen years had had a sickness caused by a spirit; and she was bent double, and could not straighten up at all. 12When Jesus saw her, He called her over and said to her, “Woman, you are freed from your sickness.”13And He laid His hands on her; and immediately she was made erect again and began glorifying God. 14But the synagogue official, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, began saying to the crowd in response, “There are six days in which work should be done; so come during them and get healed, and not on the Sabbath day.” 15But the Lord answered him and said, “You hypocrites, does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the stall and lead him away to water him? 16“And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this bond on the Sabbath day?” 17As He said this, all His opponents were being humiliated; and the entire crowd was rejoicing over all the glorious things being done by Him.
So, yes there is deliverance ministry, because Jesus did it.
However......... there's no "designated" or "called" deliverance ministers.
When someone needs deliverance, God can use who He pleases, as long as that christian submits to the Lord to do it.
It's not about who's "called"....... it's about who's faithful & "available".
Luke 13
10And He was teaching in one of the synagogues on the Sabbath. 11And there was a woman who for eighteen years had had a sickness caused by a spirit; and she was bent double, and could not straighten up at all. 12When Jesus saw her, He called her over and said to her, “Woman, you are freed from your sickness.”13And He laid His hands on her; and immediately she was made erect again and began glorifying God. 14But the synagogue official, indignant because Jesus had healed on the Sabbath, began saying to the crowd in response, “There are six days in which work should be done; so come during them and get healed, and not on the Sabbath day.” 15But the Lord answered him and said, “You hypocrites, does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or his donkey from the stall and lead him away to water him? 16“And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this bond on the Sabbath day?” 17As He said this, all His opponents were being humiliated; and the entire crowd was rejoicing over all the glorious things being done by Him.
So, yes there is deliverance ministry, because Jesus did it.
However......... there's no "designated" or "called" deliverance ministers.
When someone needs deliverance, God can use who He pleases, as long as that christian submits to the Lord to do it.
It's not about who's "called"....... it's about who's faithful & "available".
Isaiah 6:8
Then I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for Us?" Then I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
P
.
Very important part is missed here in vrs 12. Jesus was the first to respond not the person. Many people go to these deliverance people to be delivered. Now I may be wrong but nowhere in scripture did anyone come to Jesus and asked him to rid them of a demon. Jesus being led by the holy spirit saw what was going on. spiritual discernment.
One in this state cannot ask to be set free......they are unaware.....at least that is what the scriptures tell us.
Very important part is missed here in vrs 12. Jesus was the first to respond not the person. Many people go to these deliverance people to be delivered. Now I may be wrong but nowhere in scripture did anyone come to Jesus and asked him to rid them of a demon. Jesus being led by the holy spirit saw what was going on. spiritual discernment.
One in this state cannot ask to be set free......they are unaware.....at least that is what the scriptures tell us.
Last edited by a moderator:
7
reposting the article from got questions which if someone has them, questions, this is a good read
Here is an easy read...I suggest that anyone still questioning the validity of specializing in the demonic is biblical or not, to read this when you have time
the highlighted areas are a good summation of what the Bible says regarding the op
Question: "What is deliverance ministry, and is it biblical?"
Answer: The generally agreed-upon definition of “deliverance ministry” will usually focus on the casting out of demons or spirits in an attempt to solve problems related to specific demons. For example, a deliverance minister may seek to help someone overcome anger by casting out a spirit of anger. Deliverance ministries also focus on tearing down spiritual strongholds in one’s life, finding inner healing, and claiming the victory in Christ over all enemies. Many refer to soul ties, curses, and the “legal rights” of demons. Biblically, demons or evil spirits are known to be fallen angels that rebelled in heaven with Satan (Revelation 12:4, 9; Isaiah 14:12–20; Ezekiel 28:1–19).
There is certainly quite a bit in Scripture about Satan and his horde of demons. There is little said about deliverance from them, and nothing said about deliverance as a “ministry.” The offices of the church are found in Ephesians 4:11. First were the apostles and prophets, the foundation of the church—with Jesus being the Chief Corner Stone (Ephesians 2:20). Next are listed evangelists, then pastors, and teachers. The ability to cast out demons is not listed as a spiritual gift or a ministerial duty.
The Gospels and Acts relate that Jesus and the disciples cast out demons. The teaching portions of the New Testament (Romans through Jude) refer to demonic activity yet do not discuss the method of casting them out, nor are believers exhorted to do so. We are told to put on the whole armor of God to stand against spiritual wickedness (Ephesians 6:10–18). We are told to resist the devil (James 4:7) and not give him room in our lives (Ephesians 4:27). However, we are not told how to cast him or his demons out of others, or that we should even consider doing so.
It is interesting that we have no record of Jesus’ instructions to His disciples on how to cast out demons, with the possible exceptions of Matthew 12:43–45 and 17:19–21, where some insight is given. When the disciples discovered that demons were subject to them in the name and authority of Jesus, they were joyful (Luke 10:17; cf. Acts 5:16; 8:7; 16:18; 19:12). But Jesus told the disciples, “Do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven” (Luke 10:20).
Rather than being given a specific “deliverance ministry,” we have an authority in the powerful name of Jesus. One day, John said to Jesus, “We saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.’ ‘Do not stop him,’ Jesus said. ‘For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us’” (Mark 9:38–40). Authority over demons is clearly the power of the Lord at work, whether or not the exorcist has a special ministry of deliverance.
The emphasis in spiritual warfare is highlighted in verses such as 1 John 4:4, “You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world [the devil].” The victory is ours because of the Holy Spirit who dwells within us. Believers can overcome their struggles with the past, habits, and addictions, because “everyone born of God overcomes the world” (1 John 5:4). We need prayer, godly counsel, and the support of a good church, but not necessarily a “deliverance minister.”
We are told to “be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith. . . . And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast” (1 Peter 5:8–10).
The key to victory in the Christian life is to be filled (controlled and empowered) with the Holy Spirit on a moment-by-moment basis (Ephesians 5:18). The Father knows who are His: “Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God” (Romans 8:14). The Holy Spirit will not indwell anyone who is not born again (John 3:3–8; 2 Timothy 2:19; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 3:16), so the first step in spiritual victory is to place our faith in Jesus Christ. Then, rejoice that Jesus is in you and you have His power and His victory.
Here is an easy read...I suggest that anyone still questioning the validity of specializing in the demonic is biblical or not, to read this when you have time
the highlighted areas are a good summation of what the Bible says regarding the op
Question: "What is deliverance ministry, and is it biblical?"
Answer: The generally agreed-upon definition of “deliverance ministry” will usually focus on the casting out of demons or spirits in an attempt to solve problems related to specific demons. For example, a deliverance minister may seek to help someone overcome anger by casting out a spirit of anger. Deliverance ministries also focus on tearing down spiritual strongholds in one’s life, finding inner healing, and claiming the victory in Christ over all enemies. Many refer to soul ties, curses, and the “legal rights” of demons. Biblically, demons or evil spirits are known to be fallen angels that rebelled in heaven with Satan (Revelation 12:4, 9; Isaiah 14:12–20; Ezekiel 28:1–19).
There is certainly quite a bit in Scripture about Satan and his horde of demons. There is little said about deliverance from them, and nothing said about deliverance as a “ministry.” The offices of the church are found in Ephesians 4:11. First were the apostles and prophets, the foundation of the church—with Jesus being the Chief Corner Stone (Ephesians 2:20). Next are listed evangelists, then pastors, and teachers. The ability to cast out demons is not listed as a spiritual gift or a ministerial duty.
The Gospels and Acts relate that Jesus and the disciples cast out demons. The teaching portions of the New Testament (Romans through Jude) refer to demonic activity yet do not discuss the method of casting them out, nor are believers exhorted to do so. We are told to put on the whole armor of God to stand against spiritual wickedness (Ephesians 6:10–18). We are told to resist the devil (James 4:7) and not give him room in our lives (Ephesians 4:27). However, we are not told how to cast him or his demons out of others, or that we should even consider doing so.
It is interesting that we have no record of Jesus’ instructions to His disciples on how to cast out demons, with the possible exceptions of Matthew 12:43–45 and 17:19–21, where some insight is given. When the disciples discovered that demons were subject to them in the name and authority of Jesus, they were joyful (Luke 10:17; cf. Acts 5:16; 8:7; 16:18; 19:12). But Jesus told the disciples, “Do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are recorded in heaven” (Luke 10:20).
Rather than being given a specific “deliverance ministry,” we have an authority in the powerful name of Jesus. One day, John said to Jesus, “We saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.’ ‘Do not stop him,’ Jesus said. ‘For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us’” (Mark 9:38–40). Authority over demons is clearly the power of the Lord at work, whether or not the exorcist has a special ministry of deliverance.
The emphasis in spiritual warfare is highlighted in verses such as 1 John 4:4, “You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world [the devil].” The victory is ours because of the Holy Spirit who dwells within us. Believers can overcome their struggles with the past, habits, and addictions, because “everyone born of God overcomes the world” (1 John 5:4). We need prayer, godly counsel, and the support of a good church, but not necessarily a “deliverance minister.”
We are told to “be alert and of sober mind. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith. . . . And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast” (1 Peter 5:8–10).
The key to victory in the Christian life is to be filled (controlled and empowered) with the Holy Spirit on a moment-by-moment basis (Ephesians 5:18). The Father knows who are His: “Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God” (Romans 8:14). The Holy Spirit will not indwell anyone who is not born again (John 3:3–8; 2 Timothy 2:19; Acts 1:8; 1 Corinthians 3:16), so the first step in spiritual victory is to place our faith in Jesus Christ. Then, rejoice that Jesus is in you and you have His power and His victory.
P
“When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places, seeking rest; and finding none, he says, ‘I will return to my house from which I came.’ And when he comes, he finds it swept and put in order. Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first.”