DELIVER US FROM DELIVERANCE MINISTERS

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heartofdavid

Guest
#21
I am no expert. Just seen a few things.
None of my posts deviate. I am right with the op. Addressing the subject and questions
 
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heartofdavid

Guest
#22
You are either misunderstanding or misinterpreting this Scripture, so let's take a close look ant what was actually written by Paul:

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

1. We are told that there were some Christians who were opposing the truth and they were to be instructed in meekness.

2. It was Paul's hope that God would bring them to repentance so that they would acknowledge the truth and abandon the lies.

3. The lies were created by Satan and had become the snare (or trap) of the Devil to entrap the minds of these Christians in lies opposed to God's truth.


4. Because these Christians had been ensnared or entrapped in lies, they had become captives of Satan at his will. In other words, Satan had desired to trap some Christians in lies which opposed God' truth, and because they preferred the lies to the truth, they were trapped. Therefore it was Paul's desire to see them freed from this snare by having Timothy instruct them in the truth, so that they would repent -- turn away form the lies -- and acknowledge the truth without any reservation.

There is no way that this can be interpreted as the Christians being demon-possessed. We currently have a thread about "Some misconceptions about God" where some Christians have been snared by the lies of the Devil spoken through false teachers. There is no way that one can this demon-possession. They are simply deceived, and if they will not repent then they will continue to be deceived by Satan.
First we can see that people can have demons.

Next we will ask if believers can have demons.

There lies the rub,because we must now assume this and that.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#23
You are either misunderstanding or misinterpreting this Scripture, so let's take a close look ant what was actually written by Paul:

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

1. We are told that there were some Christians who were opposing the truth and they were to be instructed in meekness.

2. It was Paul's hope that God would bring them to repentance so that they would acknowledge the truth and abandon the lies.

3. The lies were created by Satan and had become the snare (or trap) of the Devil to entrap the minds of these Christians in lies opposed to God's truth.


4. Because these Christians had been ensnared or entrapped in lies, they had become captives of Satan at his will. In other words, Satan had desired to trap some Christians in lies which opposed God' truth, and because they preferred the lies to the truth, they were trapped. Therefore it was Paul's desire to see them freed from this snare by having Timothy instruct them in the truth, so that they would repent -- turn away form the lies -- and acknowledge the truth without any reservation.

There is no way that this can be interpreted as the Christians being demon-possessed. We currently have a thread about "Some misconceptions about God" where some Christians have been snared by the lies of the Devil spoken through false teachers. There is no way that one can this demon-possession. They are simply deceived, and if they will not repent then they will continue to be deceived by Satan.
He did not say posses...he is agreeing what I said about oppression.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,358
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#24
Many Christians are living under a great depression.
That should be "under great OPPRESSION". There is no question that Christians can be seriously oppressed and sabotaged by Satan and his evil angels. This writer has personal experience in this regard. But we do not have to respond to Satanic oppression with DEPRESSION. That is what the Devil would like, but God has told us that faith is our victory over depression. Therefore Timothy was told to fight the good fight of faith. Refuse to be depressed, resist the Devil, endure hardships and afflictions, and wait for the Lord to deliver us from evil. Not go to deliverance ministers for relief.
 
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#25
That should be "under great OPPRESSION". There is no question that Christians can be seriously oppressed and sabotaged by Satan and his evil angels. This writer has personal experience in this regard. But we do not have to respond to Satanic oppression with DEPRESSION. That is what the Devil would like, but God has told us that faith is our victory over depression. Therefore Timothy was told to fight the good fight of faith. Refuse to be depressed, resist the Devil, endure hardships and afflictions, and wait for the Lord to deliver us from evil. Not go to deliverance ministers for relief.
Oppression leads to depression:

The following are examples of the numbers per year in the United States of those who are defeated and are Satan’s prisoners of war in the following categories:


• 38 million who are in bondage to alcohol

• 22 million drug addicts.
• 1.3 million who attempt suicide, and 40,000 who take their own lives
• 28,000 viewers of Internet porn every second
• Those who sexually abuse one out of three girls and one out of five boys before they reach the age of 18
• Those who sexually, physically, or verbally abuse or neglect 1 million children annually
• Those who cause 4.7 million women to be victims of domestic violence annually
• 3 million addicted to gambling
• 33.8 million adults who smoke or chew tobacco and 440,000 who die annually as a result.
• 17 percent of children and 37 percent of adults who are obese

 
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heartofdavid

Guest
#26
That should be "under great OPPRESSION". There is no question that Christians can be seriously oppressed and sabotaged by Satan and his evil angels. This writer has personal experience in this regard. But we do not have to respond to Satanic oppression with DEPRESSION. That is what the Devil would like, but God has told us that faith is our victory over depression. Therefore Timothy was told to fight the good fight of faith. Refuse to be depressed, resist the Devil, endure hardships and afflictions, and wait for the Lord to deliver us from evil. Not go to deliverance ministers for relief.
Praying one for another.
Yes we could just pray for ourselves.
Some people need help. Others don't
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#27
I have been praying about your Op and still don't know how to answer if we need deliverance ministers....

Depends on the minister I guess...are they humble? Do they display fruits of the Spirit? Are they part of a local church and held accountable by other holy spirit filed believers? Do they charge money for their services? Are they bible based?

Do they disciple and teach scriptures and how the person can resist and cause the demons to flee themselves OR do they make people dependent upon them?

Do the point to Jesus or do they build their own kingdom of power and prestige?

I believe that God gives the gift of spiritual discernment to some. The ability to see good and evil spirits, see into the Spirit realms and the angels that go about God's business and the ones who seek to deceive the masses.

I believe that we do not cast out demons. We pray and God sends His angels and they cast out the demons.

We do not argue with demons. We stand on the truth found in the Bible and the demons flee when they realise we do not but their lies.

Do we need deliverance ministers?

We need Jesus. We need the Body of Christ,the church. We need maturity. All we need God has already given us. We have His holy spirit.

I guess I will have to pray more about the question.

I do know we need people who will bandage the wounds demons and their lies do upon people's hearts and minds. We need people with sound doctrine and loving hearts to help them heal and grow strong and rooted in Christ to fight off the temptation of Satan and tear down any spiritual strongholds they may have left built.
 
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Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#28
I believe delivery ministers can be legit, but as far as possession goes if they are not a believer then yes they can expel the demon but it's not like the movie exorcist where you need to chant scripture verses as if it's some spell and if your faith falters even a tiny bit then you yourself get possessed.

The believer in Christ who bares his spirit cannot be possessed and neither can the evil spirit reside in them, I mean how can a demonic presence stand to be in the presence of the holy spirit when they can't even stand to hear the name Jesus? I do think however that a believer can be oppressed by an evil spirit and a delivery minister is specialized in this. However some are not called and yet do this anyways, it's like a person trying to be a prophet when they have not been called to that office.

The issue is most people who don't believe in this limit the power of God, but at the same even those who do believe in it can go overboard. I met a person once who claimed top be a delivery minister I met him at my local phone store I told him about my body and it's ailments and I told him about the chains I bare and he said they were attacks from the enemy because of my sins and he laid his hand on my head and proclaimed freedom from my ailments and said to check with him the next day. I honestly didn't want to see him again for being pretty weirded out from the whole ordeal but I ran into him again by accident a month later and when he asked about them and I told him they were the same as ever he said it was because I either didn't have enough faith or I am still in sin.

My illness and my bodies issues are from cancer when I was young and even though I told him this somehow it was my fault and that it was an attack from satan because of my sins:/
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#29
Deliverance ministry is a must. You need Labor's who know Jesus and is willing to tear the roof off and put them in front of Jesus (Mark 2:4). The spiritual (sin) must be dealt with before Jesus deals with the circumstances.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#30
I believe delivery ministers can be legit, but as far as possession goes if they are not a believer then yes they can expel the demon but it's not like the movie exorcist where you need to chant scripture verses as if it's some spell and if your faith falters even a tiny bit then you yourself get possessed.

The believer in Christ who bares his spirit cannot be possessed and neither can the evil spirit reside in them, I mean how can a demonic presence stand to be in the presence of the holy spirit when they can't even stand to hear the name Jesus? I do think however that a believer can be oppressed by an evil spirit and a delivery minister is specialized in this. However some are not called and yet do this anyways, it's like a person trying to be a prophet when they have not been called to that office.

The issue is most people who don't believe in this limit the power of God, but at the same even those who do believe in it can go overboard. I met a person once who claimed top be a delivery minister I met him at my local phone store I told him about my body and it's ailments and I told him about the chains I bare and he said they were attacks from the enemy because of my sins and he laid his hand on my head and proclaimed freedom from my ailments and said to check with him the next day. I honestly didn't want to see him again for being pretty weirded out from the whole ordeal but I ran into him again by accident a month later and when he asked about them and I told him they were the same as ever he said it was because I either didn't have enough faith or I am still in sin.

My illness and my bodies issues are from cancer when I was young and even though I told him this somehow it was my fault and that it was an attack from satan because of my sins:/
Yeah we don't need those type of false ministers that sprout false prosperity doctrines....they are like Job's three false friends,
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#31
Deliverance ministry is a must. You need Labor's who know Jesus and is willing to tear the roof off and put them in front of Jesus (Mark 2:4). The spiritual (sin) must be dealt with before Jesus deals with the circumstances.
Jesus is more powerful then you give him credit for.

The Holy spirit convicts people of their sins.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
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#32
Yeah we don't need those type of false ministers that sprout false prosperity doctrines....they are like Job's three false friends,
Like Job's three friends I think his heart was in the right place but I think he misunderstands how the delivery ministry works.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#33
Like Job's three friends I think his heart was in the right place but I think he misunderstands how the delivery ministry works.
He didn't understand that it's only by God's power and not the ministers or the one seeking aid?

That God is more concerned with the Spiritual than the physical world of men for Jesus kingdom is not of this world.
 

Blain

The Word Weaver
Aug 28, 2012
19,211
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#34
He didn't understand that it's only by God's power and not the ministers or the one seeking aid?

That God is more concerned with the Spiritual than the physical world of men for Jesus kingdom is not of this world.
I guess not. He said he was raised and has been in the delivery ministries for over forty years and I even tried to explain to him how it actually works but he just rebuked me saying how someone who has only been saved for five years and is not even in the ministry would be wise to not act as if they know better.
 
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#35
Jesus is more powerful then you give him credit for.

The Holy spirit convicts people of their sins.

Matthew 9:35-38 King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]35 [/SUP]And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.[SUP]36 [/SUP]But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.[SUP]37 [/SUP]Then saith he unto his disciples, The harvest truly is plenteous, but the labourers are few;[SUP]38 [/SUP]Pray ye therefore the Lord of the harvest, that He will send forth labourers into His harvest.

Are you a labourer or a bystander?
 
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#36
“The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me…to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound.” Isaiah 61:1

Most people do not think they are at war with Satan, but Satan is at war with everyone, especially Christians.

In Genesis 3:15, God says there will be enmity (war or hatred) between Satan and the woman, and between Satan’s followers and Christ, which includes believers, since they are in Christ. Satan also comes trying to steal, kill, and destroy from everyone (Jn. 10:10). As a result, most people are defeated and are his prisoners of war since they do not know how to have victory over sin and Satan.

The following are examples of the numbers per year in the United States of those who are defeated and are Satan’s prisoners of war in the following categories:

• 38 million who are in bondage to alcohol

• 22 million drug addicts.
• 1.3 million who attempt suicide, and 40,000 who take their own lives
• 28,000 viewers of Internet porn every second
• Those who sexually abuse one out of three girls and one out of five boys before they reach the age of 18
• Those who sexually, physically, or verbally abuse or neglect 1 million children annually
• Those who cause 4.7 million women to be victims of domestic violence annually
• 3 million addicted to gambling
• 33.8 million adults who smoke or chew tobacco and 440,000 who die annually as a result.
• 17 percent of children and 37 percent of adults who are obese

These are some pretty obvious examples, and some of them are Christians who are struggling to overcome sin. But there are many who are struggling and losing to less obvious sins such as fear, anger, depression, unforgiveness, and selfishness. When the Assyrians would capture prisoners of war, they would put a ring or hook through the lower lips of the defeated soldiers so they could lead them around. The Babylonians put a ring or hook through the noses of prisoners of war. After prisoners of war were shown off in the triumph of a victorious Roman general (see last month’s article), half of them were killed and the other half became slaves. All of this is similar to how Satan uses and abuses his prisoners of war.

The reason Christians have become prisoners of the war with Satan is because they are fighting the wrong war, and they are trying to fight Satan and sin the wrong way. Christians are not to fight against sin because the power of sin is greater than their greatest strength. God told Paul that the power of Christ could only help him when he realized how weak he himself was, and that he had to totally depend on Christ so God’s power could work in and through him (II Cor. 12:9).

In realizing their helplessness and understanding that they do not have to turn to hopelessness, Christians can say yes to the hope that is only available in Christ. Besides that, the power of sin was already broken on the Cross, so believers do not have to keep fighting that battle.

Therefore, their weapons are not carnal (II Cor. 10:4), or something they can produce themselves and use to accomplish their victory. Their battle is not against acts of sin, but the fight is to keep their faith in who Christ is and what He did on the Cross, so they stay in His death, burial, and resurrection and are, therefore, victorious. That is the only way they are triumphant in Christ (II Cor. 2:14). And that is the only way He can work in them both to will (change their desires), and to do (give them the power of the Holy Spirit) (Phil. 2:13), so they can overcome sin. This is the only way believers can yield themselves as God’s servants (slaves) of obedience instead of being slaves to sin unto death (Rom. 6:16).

A believer can know he is a prisoner of war if he is repeatedly committing sins, such as works of the flesh (Gal. 5:19-21), or he is missing some of the fruit of the Spirit (Gal. 5:22-23).

Pastor Dave Smith - JSM
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#37
I guess not. He said he was raised and has been in the delivery ministries for over forty years and I even tried to explain to him how it actually works but he just rebuked me saying how someone who has only been saved for five years and is not even in the ministry would be wise to not act as if they know better.
It shows pride and that is NOT a fruit of the Holy spirit.

For Paul said to Timothy not to let folks try and intimidate him because of His youth but to preach the Gospel in season and out of season.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#38
"36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd"
******

I am a sheep telling my brethren that I have seen the Shepherd and to not be eaten by the wolves.
 
Sep 3, 2016
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#39
It shows pride and that is NOT a fruit of the Holy spirit.

For Paul said to Timothy not to let folks try and intimidate him because of His youth but to preach the Gospel in season and out of season.

But the LORD said to me, "Do not say, 'I am too young.' You must go to everyone I send you to and say whatever I command you. Jeremiah 1:7 NIV
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#40
Pastor Dave might need some more Bible study and prayer because God gives us more than what He speaks about in the Bible.

He has the helmet but doesn't understand the sword.