DELIVER US FROM DELIVERANCE MINISTERS

[7seasrekeyed]

for some reason, I thought folks would try to base their responses on scripture

where in scripture do we find an actual deliverance minister? as in the other offices, gifts or callings?

how are demons addressed? did people wait for the deliverance minister to show up?

did Paul or someone send for the demon buster? (not trying to be funny)

opinions abound (I am not referencing this thread when I say that so please don't anyone take that personal) and we prob all know about the myriad of books written on the subject...some prob valid and others best left in the fiction section

I was just wondering how people viewed the term 'deliverance minister' and if they could show, from scripture, that such an individual exists

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Deliverance ministry is a must. You need Labor's who know Jesus and is willing to tear the roof off and put them in front of Jesus (Mark 2:4). The spiritual (sin) must be dealt with before Jesus deals with the circumstances.

ministry?

my question, is IS THERE AN ACTUAL DELIVERANCE MINISTER ministry that we can reference in scripture?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Most of the body of Christ (Believers) are being oppress by the Devil; force to do things against their will. 2 Tim. 2:24-26.

I do not believe anyone is FORCED in the sense you seem to mean it

that would make believers poor little floundering helpless individuals calling 911 deliverance minister who may or not, sad to say, be a kook

I can't recall one time I did something sinful against my will

anyone else? does the devil make us do it or are we dealing with flesh?

if we are not responsible, then please lead me to the scripture that tells us that, because I am pretty sure many people would be only too happy to make something or someone else responsible

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Deliverance ministry is a must. You need Labor's who know Jesus and is willing to tear the roof off and put them in front of Jesus (Mark 2:4). The spiritual (sin) must be dealt with before Jesus deals with the circumstances.

so God cannot act on the behalf of a believer without a translator and someone who can speak to demons?

here is the trouble you run into when you try to deal in absolutes and use a giant paintbrush dipped in your favorite color (doctrine) to paint the landscape of everyone's little world

God is way bigger than that.

Way bigger.

I'm going to guess (educated) that you are a firm believer in deliverance ministers and supporter of same

what scripture do you point to in order to confirm the deliverance minister, as we know them, to have a valid and biblical ministry that specializes in the demonic as teacher might specialize in say...teaching?

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

so God cannot act on the behalf of a believer without a translator and someone who can speak to demons?

here is the trouble you run into when you try to deal in absolutes and use a giant paintbrush dipped in your favorite color (doctrine) to paint the landscape of everyone's little world

God is way bigger than that.

Way bigger.

I'm going to guess (educated) that you are a firm believer in deliverance ministers and supporter of same

what scripture do you point to in order to confirm the deliverance minister, as we know them, to have a valid and biblical ministry that specializes in the demonic as teacher might specialize in say...teaching?

​2 Timothy 2:24-26 King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.​

 

[notmyown]

​2 Timothy 2:24-26 King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.​

can you not see verse 25, and thus verse 26, speak of the unregenerate?

We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. (1 Jn 5:19)

what can John mean by this dichotomy?

I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. (Jn 17:15)

is this prayer of the Lord Jesus answered, do you think?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

​2 Timothy 2:24-26 King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]24 [/SUP]And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,

[SUP]25 [/SUP]In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.​

look, we all know you follow Jimmy Swaggart and since most of us don't take him seriously, while we DO take scripture seriously, perhaps you could just...calm down or something.

writing in huge letters does nothing but prove you think we all need to follow you as you follow Swaggart

ain't gonna happen dude

not now

not ever

I'm not going to respond to your yelling because it's a lot of noise, with misapplied verses and worship of a ministry

so relax and maybe learn something from others who do not take verses out of context

 

[7seasrekeyed]

can you not see verse 25, and thus verse 26, speak of the unregenerate?

We know that we are of God, and that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one. (1 Jn 5:19)

what can John mean by this dichotomy?

I do not ask You to take them out of the world, but to keep them from the evil one. (Jn 17:15)

is this prayer of the Lord Jesus answered, do you think?

no use

too far gone

 

[7seasrekeyed]

God's word is very challenging. God does not blame the devil for the evil people do or the sin they are seeped in.

You cannot get rid of sin by casting out demons. If a person has a stronghold and is struggling with sin it is because that sin has become habitual in their life and they have given place to the devil.

you will not find the Catholic method of demon expulsion in the Bible and you will not find the Charismatic method there either

what you will find, is something entirely different

THERE ARE NO DELIVERANCE MINISTRIES IN SCRIPTURE ANYMORE THEN THERE ARE INSTRUCTIONS TO PRAY TO MARY

you will not find Jesus having conversations with demons nor anyone else in scripture talking to them the way so many seem to do today

Christians are supposed to know the way the devil and demons operate but woeful ignorance and lack of teaching has given way to the so called deliverance ministers who alone can cast a demon or two out of someone whether or not they need it

the way to defeat the devil is through truth. he would not be doing what he is doing to begin with, if truth had been defined by obedience to truth and the lack of biblical knowledge in preference to displays and supernatural events has dismissed the simple fact that Jesus dealt with the devil by serving up a good helping of God's truth

I don't think there is anything wrong with praying for people and counselling people who have allowed or have had through trauma, been placed in a situation where the spiritual struggle is ongoing and at times overwhelming

I think the Bible makes it quite clear that we fight a battle in our minds....not with the flesh...and when a person considers themselves defeated and is told they need a deliverance minister, which does not exist as a gift, or calling or even by example in scripture, then they may expose themselves to even farther harm and often confusion

I also do not believe there is a method to follow or certain words to say but we have to understand that Jesus is the One who has defeated ALL of the enemy and we are told deal with demons in HIS Name with the truth of the word

it is not a mystery but some would have you think that they have special power to cast out demons when in fact, it is not a ministry at all, but obedience to and acknowledgment that the devil is defeated ...already...right now...and forever and no show or special endowment is needed

there is the gift of discerning of spirits but it is not meant to be a circus sideshow with talking to demons and demanding they tell the truth. why are people asking liars for the truth?

anyway, I know some will poo poo what I write, but they will not be able to show us from scripture where the deliverance ministry exists

ignorance is often the platform from which demons do their thing. turn on the light and the performance goes away...

if we need deliverance ministers at all or as they exist, it appears that vacuum has been created by those who prefer their Bible given in doses on a Sunday morning and neglect it the rest of the week.

the above is a teeny tiny synopsis of things I have myself experienced and conversations I have had with those who believe they are deliverance ministers and actual counselling of those who do and did need help in these areas

each time Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, He said 'it is written'..the devil, the Bible says, left Him for a season

this is not written to unbelievers, but to us in Christ

1 Peter 5:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

 

[Budman]

I would much rather pray to Jesus and have Him deliver one possessed/oppressed. I agree that there are no "specialists" mentioned in scripture, and in fact, sometimes even the unsaved can cast out demons (Matthew 7:21-23).

 

[7seasrekeyed]

[h=1]For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds. We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ." 2 Cor. 10:3-5[/h][FONT=&quot]
Submit yourselves to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. James 4:7

You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world. 1 John 4:4

Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour. Resist him, standing firm in the faith. 1 Pet. 5:8-9


[/FONT]

 

[7seasrekeyed]

it would be fantastic, IMO to study all the pieces of the spiritual armor

Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand.

Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.
Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God." Eph. 6:11-17

 

[MichaelOwen]

Satan's plan is just this....if you are lost, he aims to keep you lost, if you are a follower of Christ, he knows he's fighting a losing battle, but he's going to do anything and everything to make you think you're lost and unsaved, but if you believe it in your heart that Christ is the son of God and that God did raise him from the dead, the Word tells us you're saved already. Prime example would be Job.....God took his hedge of protection away from Job, and Job was still faithful and loyal to the Lord, and Satan took EVERYTHING away from him and put him through the toughest of circumstances...yet Job still remained faithful to the Lord......that's Satan's goal.

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." James 4:7

 

[7seasrekeyed]

The primary error of deliverance ministries is that they believe that Christians can be demon-possesed. Please note:
Quoted from Spiritual warfare, deliverance, casting out demons, strongholds and more!

This is completely false. Before a person is born again, they must receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Be "baptized WITH the Holy Ghost". Which means that the Holy Spirit comes to indwell the believer. Which also means that no evil spirits can take up residence within the saint. As Scripture says:Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. (1 John 4:4).

might be timely to deal with the notion of Christians being demon possessed

can Christians be demon possessed?

this question is loaded and a study on the word possession and the way it is handled in so many translations would be helpful

the way the original language expresses the use of the word possessed, is with the opposite meaning most believe it has

the meaning is actually the person possessing the demon and not the demon possessing the person

if someone possesses a dog, they own the dog...the dog does not own them


even knowing or acknowledging the above however, does not change the question of whether or not a Christian can have a demon INDWELLING them...

IMO, the argument might more sense if people would acknowledge the Bible does indicate that the devil/demons can and do harm to believers

and by the way, one devil, many demons

btw, obscure scriptures that are used to indicate one view or the other prob will not make a case. the Bible is not silent on the subject and guessing is not helpful

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Satan's plan is just this....if you are lost, he aims to keep you lost, if you are a follower of Christ, he knows he's fighting a losing battle, but he's going to do anything and everything to make you think you're lost and unsaved, but if you believe it in your heart that Christ is the son of God and that God did raise him from the dead, the Word tells us you're saved already. Prime example would be Job.....God took his hedge of protection away from Job, and Job was still faithful and loyal to the Lord, and Satan took EVERYTHING away from him and put him through the toughest of circumstances...yet Job still remained faithful to the Lord......that's Satan's goal.

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." James 4:7

yes...we are supposed to be overcomers. we ovecome the devil and his schemes and those schemes are many and we recognize them by knowing the will of God. the will of God is plainly written in scripture and whether people think so or not, they get themselves in trouble when they continue in sin and think that since they are a believer they are safe

you cannot resist the devil if you are not submitted to God and you cannot submit to God unless you acknowledge that you are the problem and God is the answer

 

[Rosemaryx]

God's word is very challenging. God does not blame the devil for the evil people do or the sin they are seeped in.

You cannot get rid of sin by casting out demons. If a person has a stronghold and is struggling with sin it is because that sin has become habitual in their life and they have given place to the devil.

you will not find the Catholic method of demon expulsion in the Bible and you will not find the Charismatic method there either

what you will find, is something entirely different

THERE ARE NO DELIVERANCE MINISTRIES IN SCRIPTURE ANYMORE THEN THERE ARE INSTRUCTIONS TO PRAY TO MARY

you will not find Jesus having conversations with demons nor anyone else in scripture talking to them the way so many seem to do today

Christians are supposed to know the way the devil and demons operate but woeful ignorance and lack of teaching has given way to the so called deliverance ministers who alone can cast a demon or two out of someone whether or not they need it

the way to defeat the devil is through truth. he would not be doing what he is doing to begin with, if truth had been defined by obedience to truth and the lack of biblical knowledge in preference to displays and supernatural events has dismissed the simple fact that Jesus dealt with the devil by serving up a good helping of God's truth

I don't think there is anything wrong with praying for people and counselling people who have allowed or have had through trauma, been placed in a situation where the spiritual struggle is ongoing and at times overwhelming

I think the Bible makes it quite clear that we fight a battle in our minds....not with the flesh...and when a person considers themselves defeated and is told they need a deliverance minister, which does not exist as a gift, or calling or even by example in scripture, then they may expose themselves to even farther harm and often confusion

I also do not believe there is a method to follow or certain words to say but we have to understand that Jesus is the One who has defeated ALL of the enemy and we are told deal with demons in HIS Name with the truth of the word

it is not a mystery but some would have you think that they have special power to cast out demons when in fact, it is not a ministry at all, but obedience to and acknowledgment that the devil is defeated ...already...right now...and forever and no show or special endowment is needed

there is the gift of discerning of spirits but it is not meant to be a circus sideshow with talking to demons and demanding they tell the truth. why are people asking liars for the truth?

anyway, I know some will poo poo what I write, but they will not be able to show us from scripture where the deliverance ministry exists

ignorance is often the platform from which demons do their thing. turn on the light and the performance goes away...

if we need deliverance ministers at all or as they exist, it appears that vacuum has been created by those who prefer their Bible given in doses on a Sunday morning and neglect it the rest of the week.

the above is a teeny tiny synopsis of things I have myself experienced and conversations I have had with those who believe they are deliverance ministers and actual counselling of those who do and did need help in these areas

each time Jesus was tempted in the wilderness, He said 'it is written'..the devil, the Bible says, left Him for a season

this is not written to unbelievers, but to us in Christ

1 Peter 5:8 King James Version (KJV)

8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

Hi seas...Jesus is my deliverer from all things , to trust , lean and rely on Him , God delivers us from ALL evil , to those who are in Christ Jesus...

It seems many people out there who give themselves titles such as Deliverance ministries are the ones who need deliverance themselves , I don`t know , I had never heard of such people till I read this thread lol ...xox...

 

[valleyofdecision]

I was going to respond in another thread, but because of the gravity of the thread and a situation that the op expressed and a response that makes me really ticked off (yes it happens), I decided to open up a thread for discussion regarding

DELIVERANCE MINISTERS

rather than become embroiled in a disagreement that sidetracked the aforementioned thread

so...are deliverance ministers genuine or not?

is that an actual ministry?

I believe demons exist. I believe they need to be dealt with as the occasion may arise.

I do not believe we go chasing them, specialize in them or otherwise create an entire 'ministry' surrounding them

thoughts and comments of either side....scripture backing up what you think is helpful

name calling not desired or helpful

guess we will see what develops

Jesus showed us the deliverance was not stand alone, but everyone has the power and authority of his name.
When Christ, Peter or Paul delivered someone from being demonized they were totally and completely delivered and never needed a redo 6 months down the road. The damsel of divination could no longer make profit for her masters. The Demoniac of Gadara was a new man.

There is no way a Christian, abiding with Christ, can be demonized in their spirit,

 

[valleyofdecision]

seems a direct answer from some is like trying to nail jello to the wall

not trying to offend....trying to be direct and wanting direct answers

that is how we derive the truth and hopefully cause some thinking

and how bout that Bible? whats it say?

later

NO, deliverance ministers and ministries are not Biblical and not supported in scripture anywhere. Christ did far more, manifesting the goodness of God, healing and teaching than he ever did casting things out of people.

 

[Ariel82]

Someone asked for scriptures..,.

Acts 19
11And God was doing extraordinary miracles by the hands of Paul, 12so that even handkerchiefs or aprons that had touched his skin were carried away to the sick, and their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them. 13Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists undertook to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, “I adjure you by the Jesus whom Paul proclaims.” 14Seven sons of a Jewish high priest named Sceva were doing this. 15But the evil spirit answered them, “Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize, but who are you?” 16And the man in whom was the evil spirit leaped on them, mastered alld of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

 

[Ariel82]

Matthew 7:21-23 New King James Version (NKJV)
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’