The faith trap

[finaldesire]

Did you ever think about what happens to children if they die before they know Jesus, they get into heaven right? I mean this is what almost all Christians acknowledge, that God would have to be pretty cruel to send children to hell, just for not having the opportunity of knowing him. But they somehow get into heaven, Why? Do children have faith exempt status, the status that God requires to save you.

Doesn't it seem a little unfair, that you need faith (The right faith) But children don't need any, and they're going to just walk through the pearly gates. Somehow faith is not necessary here, well if faith in Jesus is not necessary here God never needed people to have faith in him to save anyone in the first place.

 

[p_rehbein]

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[finaldesire]

View attachment 178821

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Don't point that thing at me, he he he.

 

[Demi777]

Children are innocent. Theyre with God

 

[John146]

Did you ever think about what happens to children if they die before they know Jesus, they get into heaven right? I mean this is what almost all Christians acknowledge, that God would have to be pretty cruel to send children to hell, just for not having the opportunity of knowing him. But they somehow get into heaven, Why? Do children have faith exempt status, the status that God requires to save you.

Doesn't it seem a little unfair, that you need faith (The right faith) But children don't need any, and they're going to just walk through the pearly gates. Somehow faith is not necessary here, well if faith in Jesus is not necessary here God never needed people to have faith in him to save anyone in the first place.

Whose sins are placed upon them? Adam's? Nope. Because of Adam, they are born with a sin nature, but if they die without personal sin, they will be present with the Lord.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Did you ever think about what happens to children if they die before they know Jesus, they get into heaven right? I mean this is what almost all Christians acknowledge, that God would have to be pretty cruel to send children to hell, just for not having the opportunity of knowing him. But they somehow get into heaven, Why? Do children have faith exempt status, the status that God requires to save you.

Doesn't it seem a little unfair, that you need faith (The right faith) But children don't need any, and they're going to just walk through the pearly gates. Somehow faith is not necessary here, well if faith in Jesus is not necessary here God never needed people to have faith in him to save anyone in the first place.

Sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law,the age when people become accountable for there sin and would have to be perfectly righteous In their own strength but they would fall short of the glory of GOD,although their spirit Is willing,the flesh Is weak,so then they would need a savior If they were now accountable.

 

[finaldesire]

Children are innocent. Theyre with God

No, you need faith to be with God, that's what the bible says Demi777.

 

[finaldesire]

Sin Is not Imputed where there Is no law,the age when people become accountable for there sin and would have to be perfectly righteous In their own strength but they would fall short of the glory of GOD,although their spirit Is willing,the flesh Is weak,so then they would need a savior If they were now accountable.

There's no mention of age of accountability in the bible. Did you know when I was about 6 years old I used to steal chocolate from my parents pantry at night. I knew it was wrong even at that age..nah children have to go to hell with those who never have faith in Jesus. It's cruel but fair, because Jesus is fair.

 

[finaldesire]

Whose sins are placed upon them? Adam's? Nope. Because of Adam, they are born with a sin nature, but if they die without personal sin, they will be present with the Lord.

They are dead in their sins as the bible points out, and only faith in Jesus can save them, and me and you, and also the aliens who live on Kolob.

 

[blue_ladybug]

How were you stealing it? I mean, it's food, it's there to be eaten, right? And I disagree with your statement that children go to hell....

There's no mention of age of accountability in the bible. Did you know when I was about 6 years old I used to steal chocolate from my parents pantry at night. I knew it was wrong even at that age..nah children have to go to hell with those who never have faith in Jesus. It's cruel but fair, because Jesus is fair.

 

[Demi777]

Well prove us that children arent pure

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

David said he knew he would see his dead baby again. I probably don't know God as well as David did yet.

And in your economy, the severely mentally disabled have to go to hell too.

You are leaving out mercy. You are mistaken. I don't know to what exact degree you are mistaken and I don't care to pick hairs off frogs to try to determine to what degree because I'm not a theologian.

David probably knew God better than you too.

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Children do not understand right from wrong. Jesus demonstrates this by always talking to the parents of the sick or demon possessed children and not the child. This also teaches us about the age of accountability.
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14: Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD. Exodus 30:14
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God commanded those who were twenty years old and above to pay a ransom for their souls because anyone nineteen years and below were consider by God to be children and were under the protective head of the household. If he was only nineteen he was not old enough to pay a ransom for his own soul, he was still covered under his fathers ransom.

God will confirm this again in two other places of scripture. I am a firm believer in the "two witness theory," which is that there should be at least two scriptures to verify any Bible teaching that we use.

He decided to punish them by allowing them to die in the Wilderness. Israel was condemned to wander for the next forty years in the Wilderness while these people died. But God did not sentence everyone to die in the Wilderness. Along with Joshua, Caleb and their families he spared the children of those that had sinned against him. Anyone who was twenty years and older was condemned to die in the Wilderness because God held them accountable for their sin against him. But God in his mercy spared the children. Anyone who was nineteen years and under were spared and not held accountable because God saw them as children. Here are some of the scriptures to confirm this.

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Num 14:29: Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,

We can tell that he would destroy those who were twenty and older and spare those who were nineteen years and younger but, how does this prove accountability? Maybe he just picked a random number to spare and went by that? Well lets look in Deuteronomy and see what it says concerning their accountability.

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Deuteronomy 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

This scripture is speaking of the same time that we just read about in Numbers 14:29. It is speaking of all Israel who was considered by the Lord to not be held accountable for the sins of Israel. In this verse he says because they had no knowledge between good and evil. This clearly shows us that in Gods view anyone who is under twenty years old is insufficient when it comes to making decisions about what is good and evil. He did not hold them accountable for themselves.​

 

[Ariel82]

Did you ever think about what happens to children if they die before they know Jesus, they get into heaven right? I mean this is what almost all Christians acknowledge, that God would have to be pretty cruel to send children to hell, just for not having the opportunity of knowing him. But they somehow get into heaven, Why? Do children have faith exempt status, the status that God requires to save you.

Doesn't it seem a little unfair, that you need faith (The right faith) But children don't need any, and they're going to just walk through the pearly gates. Somehow faith is not necessary here, well if faith in Jesus is not necessary here God never needed people to have faith in him to save anyone in the first place.

My daughter accepted Jesus and was able to tell the gospel when she was 6 years old.....so I would say only young children who are too young to reason and make a choice and have not heard the gospel qualify.

Kids as young as 1 year know right and wrong. Maybe not the wisest choice makers but they can learn.

At one point in everyone's life they choose to follow God or follow their selfish desires.

Which one have you chosen?

 

[Chavah]

Well, Jesus said "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of God belongs to such as these..."

We can maybe discus who can or can not be considered a child (regarding age, or first conscious sin or rebellion?) or when childhood ends....

Actually, there are few other things we can discuss ...

 

[Blain]

Well it is true that the age of accountability is not in the bible but honestly It's very difficult to imagine that a little 6 or 8 year old would go to hell like that, and you have wonder exactly what qualifies one to be of the mental age of accountability.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Children do not understand right from wrong. Jesus demonstrates this by always talking to the parents of the sick or demon possessed children and not the child. This also teaches us about the age of accountability.
​

​

14: Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD. Exodus 30:14
​

God commanded those who were twenty years old and above to pay a ransom for their souls because anyone nineteen years and below were consider by God to be children and were under the protective head of the household. If he was only nineteen he was not old enough to pay a ransom for his own soul, he was still covered under his fathers ransom.

God will confirm this again in two other places of scripture. I am a firm believer in the "two witness theory," which is that there should be at least two scriptures to verify any Bible teaching that we use.

He decided to punish them by allowing them to die in the Wilderness. Israel was condemned to wander for the next forty years in the Wilderness while these people died. But God did not sentence everyone to die in the Wilderness. Along with Joshua, Caleb and their families he spared the children of those that had sinned against him. Anyone who was twenty years and older was condemned to die in the Wilderness because God held them accountable for their sin against him. But God in his mercy spared the children. Anyone who was nineteen years and under were spared and not held accountable because God saw them as children. Here are some of the scriptures to confirm this.

​

Num 14:29: Your carcases shall fall in this wilderness; and all that were numbered of you, according to your whole number, from twenty years old and upward, which have murmured against me,

We can tell that he would destroy those who were twenty and older and spare those who were nineteen years and younger but, how does this prove accountability? Maybe he just picked a random number to spare and went by that? Well lets look in Deuteronomy and see what it says concerning their accountability.

​

Deuteronomy 1:39 Moreover your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, and your children, which in that day had no knowledge between good and evil, they shall go in thither, and unto them will I give it, and they shall possess it.

This scripture is speaking of the same time that we just read about in Numbers 14:29. It is speaking of all Israel who was considered by the Lord to not be held accountable for the sins of Israel. In this verse he says because they had no knowledge between good and evil. This clearly shows us that in Gods view anyone who is under twenty years old is insufficient when it comes to making decisions about what is good and evil. He did not hold them accountable for themselves.​

What can amazingly astute post! Thank you for this!

 

[FlyingDove]

Trap or trap setter?

2 Samuel 12:

19 But when David saw that his servants whispered, David perceived that the child was dead: therefore David said unto his servants, Is the child dead? And they said, He is dead.

20 Then David arose from the earth, and washed, and anointed himself, and changed his apparel, and came into the house of the LORD, and worshipped: then he came to his own house; and when he required, they set bread before him, and he did eat.

21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread.

22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether GOD will be gracious to me, that the child may live?

23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me

Point 1 : David was convinced he'd see his child again. Only Jewish male's OF AGE were required to travel to the Temple for certain Feasts.)

Point 2: 1 Cor 7:14 14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: """else were your children unclean"""; """but now are they holy""".

The children are sanctified and covered by/through the Believing parents Faith. The covering is dissolved when the child is old enough to choose for themselves.

1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also """for the sins of the whole world"""

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, ""which taketh away the sin of the world"".

John 6:51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give ""for the life of the world"".

1 Timothy 2:6 Who ""gave himself a ransom for all"", to be testified in due time.

To be clear I'm not a universalists nor is this reply meant to promote thier dogma.

I do however, find your position disturbing. There are many people that have lost an infant (I'm one). That will read your unprovable position & for that I'm regretful.

 

[Chavah]

I do believe, that in king David case child or rather newborn belonged to God and was saved... also bcs David said (verse 23) that he ... "shall go to him" and I do believe that David has certainty of his salvation ....

But when it comes to older children I think, that we tend to be lighthearted or even unconcerned, maybe because we do compare 6 or 8 yo child with us - adults, so of course they will come out as very innocent (again - compare to us)

But we also have to face the fact or possibility that God scale or criterion can be completely different than ours ...

 

[garee]

No, you need faith to be with God, that's what the bible says Demi777.

I would think a person needs the faith of God, coming from God, to become a new creature in the new heavens and earth..Or do we just add things that are not revealed ? I would think every Christian loves babies so its not how do we feel about it.But what do the scriptures inform us.

Some would try and make His faith without effect. Is there an advantage of not seeing the Sun?

What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.Rom 3:1

As soon as Children are born they go forth telling lie .Do we let those who have not seen the Sun be true and the ones that do see the Sun as Liars?

God intervened and informed David who knew the Lord from his mothers womb that his unseen child was born again. Does it mean all babies are given a new born again spirit? If that was the case how would that effect murdering of the unborn .

Some say they automatically go to heaven. Is murder the new 100 % sure evangelisation tool?` Or has the father of lies been a murder from the beginning.

The scriptures inform us as soon as a corrupted generation is born they go forth telling lies. All must be born again. Not all mysteries are revealed.

Psalms 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.