Charismatics Practice Gnosticism?

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Jan 6, 2018
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#1
Here is how Charismatics parallel the Gnostic heretics of the second and third century.

A. The world is a Platonic duality of a pure spirit world vs an evil material world.

B. Salvation is achieved by a special race of humans by accumulation of special knowledge.

C. This knowledge is special revelation that reawakens the race to their divine identity.

(My info on Gnosticism is from the Encyclopedia Britannica)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#2
What is the source of your information on "charismatics"? And what is the justification for linking the two?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#3
Here is how Charismatics parallel the Gnostic heretics of the second and third century.
A. The world is a Platonic duality of a pure spirit world vs an evil material world.
B. Salvation is achieved by a special race of humans by accumulation of special knowledge.
C. This knowledge is special revelation that reawakens the race to their divine identity.
I do not believe it would be fair to link Charismatics with Gnostics. Gnosticism was essentially a focus on "hidden knowledge" (gnosis) revealed only to the *initiated*. Charismatism is a focus on subjective experiences (presumably direct involvement with the Holy Spirit) with less emphasis on Bible doctrine.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#4
What is the source of your information on "charismatics"? And what is the justification for linking the two?
I'll start with A.

A. Charismatics say the spirit man is the real man and is absolutely pure before God. They also say sense knowledge must be denied that real knowledge is revelation knowledge. These ideas are a Platonic dualism of reality. They are Gnostic parallels.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#5
I'll start with A.

A. Charismatics say the spirit man is the real man and is absolutely pure before God. They also say sense knowledge must be denied that real knowledge is revelation knowledge. These ideas are a Platonic dualism of reality. They are Gnostic parallels.
Which Charismatics say such things? Quote a real person, or a real church's statement of faith. You can make all the claims you like, but until you provide a source, your assertions are equivalent to baseless opinions.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#6
I do not believe it would be fair to link Charismatics with Gnostics. Gnosticism was essentially a focus on "hidden knowledge" (gnosis) revealed only to the *initiated*. Charismatism is a focus on subjective experiences (presumably direct involvement with the Holy Spirit) with less emphasis on Bible doctrine.
Their doctrines are not all based on experiences. For example, none of them have experienced being a god even though they claim to be gods.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#7
Which Charismatics say such things? Quote a real person, or a real church's statement of faith. You can make all the claims you like, but until you provide a source, your assertions are equivalent to baseless opinions.
None of them put everything they believe in their statement of faith page. Their statement of faith includes only the basic Christian dogma.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
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#8
I'll start with A.

A. Charismatics say the spirit man is the real man and is absolutely pure before God. They also say sense knowledge must be denied that real knowledge is revelation knowledge. These ideas are a Platonic dualism of reality. They are Gnostic parallels.
Which Charismatics say such things? Quote a real person, or a real church's statement of faith. You can make all the claims you like, but until you provide a source, your assertions are equivalent to baseless opinions.
None of them put everything they believe in their statement of faith page. Their statement of faith includes only the basic Christian dogma.
That is a dodge. You made a specific claim as to what "Charismatics" say. Unless you can quote a claim made by a self-professing charismatic, your assertion is unfounded. It's really that simple. Evidence, or silence.
 
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phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
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#9
Their doctrines are not all based on experiences. For example, none of them have experienced being a god even though they claim to be gods.

Hi Devotiontobible,

I think you are confusing 'word of faith' and 'charismatics'. Although word of faith proponents claim they are charismatic. I'm personally not a charismatic, and sometimes poke fun at them on here (and debate):cool: But I would not say that all charismatics hold to 'word of faith' which is a false gospel.

I have many friends who are charismatic and good brothers and sisters in Christ. They are not into 'word of faith' they don't believe they are 'gods' or speak things into being etc etc etc.

'Word of faith' and 'health and wealth gospel' are a false gospel.

But real charismatics (maybe a minority I don't know) are bible believing brothers and sisters.. I think they have it totally wrong.. but they also think I have it wrong too :)

 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
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#10
Their doctrines are not all based on experiences. For example, none of them have experienced being a god even though they claim to be gods.
So you claiming that you don't have a spirit? If God is a Spirit, then wouldn't a god be a spirit?
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
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#11

'Word of faith' and 'health and wealth gospel' are a false gospel.
Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do. Deut 29:9
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
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#12
Their doctrines are not all based on experiences. For example, none of them have experienced being a god even though they claim to be gods.
Why are you obsessed with Charismatics? This is your second thread on this group. They have chosen their path and will give account to God. You will certainly not influence them to give up their beliefs.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#13
Hi Devotiontobible,

I think you are confusing 'word of faith' and 'charismatics'. Although word of faith proponents claim they are charismatic. I'm personally not a charismatic, and sometimes poke fun at them on here (and debate):cool: But I would not say that all charismatics hold to 'word of faith' which is a false gospel.

I have many friends who are charismatic and good brothers and sisters in Christ. They are not into 'word of faith' they don't believe they are 'gods' or speak things into being etc etc etc.

'Word of faith' and 'health and wealth gospel' are a false gospel.

But real charismatics (maybe a minority I don't know) are bible believing brothers and sisters.. I think they have it totally wrong.. but they also think I have it wrong too :)

You should consider this example :

You may never have heard of Bishop Bill Hamon, but you should know who he is. This man (pictured here with his wife, Evelyn) is one of the most influential “prophets” in the apostolic-prophetic movement, which has entered many charismatic churches — the fastest-growing churches in the world according to church growth researchers.

Hamon’s also one of the most influential charismatics in general — attending the invitation-only “Charismatic Leaders Council,” sponsored by Strang Communications (publisher of Charisma magazine), Jan. 15-16, in Lake Mary, Florida. Yet, Hamon’s teachings are some of the most unorthodox teachings in the church today. ...

Manifest Sons of God’ Doctrine
Hamon’s teachings are consistent with the heretical “manifest sons of God doctrine,” which teaches that a breed of super-Christians will arise and subdue the earth. Another common strain of this doctrine is that Christians are gods, whose divinity will be revealed — or using King James Language — be manifested. Read more about this doctrine here.

Supporters of this doctrine misapply the biblical teaching about the church being Christ’s body, using it to argue that the church actually becomes part of God. (See pages 266-267 of Hamon’s book Apostles, Prophets and the Coming Moves of God, where he seems to be misusing this teaching this way.) Also, in his books, Hamon capitalizes the words “Church” and “Bride” to show the church’s “union with Deity through Jesus Christ,” according to an explanatory note. Statements like these, which appear throughout Hamon’s materials, make it appear he is teaching that the church actually becomes part of God.

Of course, 2 Peter 1:4 does teach that we “participate in the divine nature,” but this refers to the Holy Spirit who indwells us, enabling us — as the passage goes on to state — to “escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.” It does not teach that our nature actually becomes divine. The teaching that human beings can become divine is the same lie that Satan told Eve in the Garden of Eden.
https://spiritoferror.wordpress.com/category/charisma-magazine/
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#14
That is a dodge. You made a specific claim as to what "Charismatics" say. Unless you can quote a claim made by a self-professing charismatic, your assertion is unfounded. It's really that simple. Evidence, or silence.
I'm not going to get into what is common sense among those of us who have been in or know the Charismatic movement for the past 40 years. This isn't a Charismatic 101 discussion. Do you stalk people who disagree with Catholicism badgering them to prove that Catholics pray to saints? Or critics of Jehovah Witnesses to prove they believe Jesus is Michael the Archangel?
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#15
You should consider this example :

You may never have heard of Bishop Bill Hamon, but you should know who he is. This man (pictured here with his wife, Evelyn) is one of the most influential “prophets” in the apostolic-prophetic movement, which has entered many charismatic churches — the fastest-growing churches in the world according to church growth researchers.

Hamon’s also one of the most influential charismatics in general — attending the invitation-only “Charismatic Leaders Council,” sponsored by Strang Communications (publisher of Charisma magazine), Jan. 15-16, in Lake Mary, Florida. Yet, Hamon’s teachings are some of the most unorthodox teachings in the church today. ...

Manifest Sons of God’ Doctrine
Hamon’s teachings are consistent with the heretical “manifest sons of God doctrine,” which teaches that a breed of super-Christians will arise and subdue the earth. Another common strain of this doctrine is that Christians are gods, whose divinity will be revealed — or using King James Language — be manifested. Read more about this doctrine here.

Supporters of this doctrine misapply the biblical teaching about the church being Christ’s body, using it to argue that the church actually becomes part of God. (See pages 266-267 of Hamon’s book Apostles, Prophets and the Coming Moves of God, where he seems to be misusing this teaching this way.) Also, in his books, Hamon capitalizes the words “Church” and “Bride” to show the church’s “union with Deity through Jesus Christ,” according to an explanatory note. Statements like these, which appear throughout Hamon’s materials, make it appear he is teaching that the church actually becomes part of God.

Of course, 2 Peter 1:4 does teach that we “participate in the divine nature,” but this refers to the Holy Spirit who indwells us, enabling us — as the passage goes on to state — to “escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.” It does not teach that our nature actually becomes divine. The teaching that human beings can become divine is the same lie that Satan told Eve in the Garden of Eden.
https://spiritoferror.wordpress.com/category/charisma-magazine/

Hi Devotiontobible,

I understand your concerns, I have them to. I would say that it seems the vast majority are following erroneous and false teachings. But there are charismatics who are Bible believing Christians who don't go for the new apostolic, prophetic, word of faith, health wealth teaching. That was the point I was making.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#18
Hi Devotiontobible,

I understand your concerns, I have them to. I would say that it seems the vast majority are following erroneous and false teachings. But there are charismatics who are Bible believing Christians who don't go for the new apostolic, prophetic, word of faith, health wealth teaching. That was the point I was making.
Then let's hear them refute these errors.
 
H

heartofdavid

Guest
#19
None of them put everything they believe in their statement of faith page. Their statement of faith includes only the basic Christian dogma.
I am a charismatic.
Stop lying.
The devil accuses the brethren.
Good luck cursing the body of Christ.