Healing in the Atonement?

[stonesoffire]

We live in the northern part of Florida. It's not palm trees but oak trees around our property.

So you guys have an RV. We had a motorhome when first married and spent several months at a Pentecostal campground. Was fun but I was ready for home then. And my husband just asked me to start praying about selling the house and getting another. He wants to live near the ocean. We are smack dab in the middle here. We both love Ormond beach.

So will see what saith He. 2 dogs, and a conure in a smaller place? I don't know...lol

Would be great to meet you!

 

[Jesusiscoming1964]

Hi I am just learning how to use this website

 

[bluto]

will listen tomorrow Joanie. Thank you.

You might want to read the following first because not everything is what it seems to be especially when it comes to so-called Word of faith ministries. Kenneth Hagin - General Teachings/Activities

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

 

[Laish]

Actualy Angela will know how much she got right by who doesn’t approve and why .
Aproval is easy to get . Just look at our world. Put up a touchy-feely post on Facebook and watch all the likes pour in .
Whats hard is telling someone you love or like that somthing they cherish is wrong. That takes courage. It’s far easier to enjoy the accolades than suffer the slings and arrows.
Blessings
Bill[/QUOTE


The point being made is this.... it's not who is right or wrong. It's how we walk with others as Christians. There are many talented Christian people who can and do write books and that is a great thing... But if we don't agree with certain findings it's OK we don't need to dissemble them for not agreeing with us do we? No we don't.

We read their books (or not) But we don't dissemble them piece by piece. And as a matter of fact... that should not be our motivation for posting or for writing books.

I don’t get what your meaning here.
Are are you accusing Angela or others here of lying about their motives or her use of scripture to instruct others ? I don’t get it .
Blessings
Bill
note here below is the definition of the word I put in bold
dis•sem•blev.

[no object]​

1. to hide or conceal one's true motives or thoughts;
   speak or act hypocritically:You can always tell if he's dissembling; his voice trembles when he lies.

 

[joaniemarie]

Laish/Bill ... My spell check didn't put the word I wanted up... but it was close. The word is "disassemble"

What I was saying was in general to anyone (especially a Christian) who posts or writes books. It's not about who is right or wrong. It's how we present Jesus to others. If and when we disagree with one another on topics in the Bible.. We do not do the opposite of building one another up in the body of Christ.

How do we do that? We do it by taking those who don't agree with us "down" block by block "disassembling" them piece by piece. That should never be our objective in posting or writing books. As far as motives go.... only God knows our motives unless we clearly state what they are.

 

[FlSnookman7]

Hi I am just learning how to use this website

Welcome to CC!

 

[notmyown]

Laish/Bill ... My spell check didn't put the word I wanted up... but it was close. The word is "disassemble"

What I was saying was in general to anyone (especially a Christian) who posts or writes books. It's not about who is right or wrong. It's how we present Jesus to others. If and when we disagree with one another on topics in the Bible.. We do not do the opposite of building one another up in the body of Christ.

How do we do that? We do it by taking those who don't agree with us "down" block by block "disassembling" them piece by piece. That should never be our objective in posting or writing books. As far as motives go.... only God knows our motives unless we clearly state what they are.

how can it not be about who's right or wrong?

the Bible presents us with one truth, one story about one Person. who's right or wrong seems quite important to God, and so it should be to us.

 

[Laish]

Laish/Bill ... My spell check didn't put the word I wanted up... but it was close. The word is "disassemble"

What I was saying was in general to anyone (especially a Christian) who posts or writes books. It's not about who is right or wrong. It's how we present Jesus to others. If and when we disagree with one another on topics in the Bible.. We do not do the opposite of building one another up in the body of Christ.

How do we do that? We do it by taking those who don't agree with us "down" block by block "disassembling" them piece by piece. That should never be our objective in posting or writing books. As far as motives go.... only God knows our motives unless we clearly state what they are.

Lol so I am not the only one with the spell check that changes things .
joaniemarie .
I understand a lot of what your saying. Maybe things can be expressed differently. Still we should call out and critique what we find wrong . Even if the other is within the Body of Christ and are the ones we love . If others have not stood up to expose error most of the western world would still be Catholic. Women would not be allowed to talk theology with anyone except her husband. The list can go on and on . We all stand on the shoulders of those that spoke up .
Blessings
Bill

 

[wolfwint]

And Angela., after you write that book of yours., you will still see and hear millions of Christians who are not in agreement with you and have not gone through the experiences you have gone through and have gone through their own experiences of faith.... because they read their Bibles too and have a relationship with Jesus too and follow the leading of the Holy Spirit too. That is a truth you cannot deny no matter how many books or posts you write.

That is not heresy and they are not heretics.... it is the fact of life for us humans that none of us on this side of heaven have it all down pat 100% right. That we each must ALWAYS submit to the truth regardless of our personal experiences in life.

But in the mean time... we must learn to GET ALONG no matter what our differences in the body of Christ.

Well, Stones, it does matter what we believe. Many false teachings coming becsuse people take the word as they want out of context and out of purpose.
I just renember that our Lord said that there will be a time that people who call him Lord will be rejectet. The cast out demons and made miracles in the name of Jesus, but the Lord will tell them: I dont know you.
In these days we have many people like this which doing on one side powerful things and on the other side they ignore the word of God. We as follower of the Lord should not believe every Spirit. Not every Spirit leads to God.

 

[Lancelot]

You might want to read the following first because not everything is what it seems to be especially when it comes to so-called Word of faith ministries. Kenneth Hagin - General Teachings/Activities

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Full of anti-WoF talking points based on religious prejudice and misinformation. I'd be happy to discuss any particulars, but we might need another thread as it would require a lot of commentary.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Laish/Bill ... My spell check didn't put the word I wanted up... but it was close. The word is "disassemble"

What I was saying was in general to anyone (especially a Christian) who posts or writes books. It's not about who is right or wrong. It's how we present Jesus to others. If and when we disagree with one another on topics in the Bible.. We do not do the opposite of building one another up in the body of Christ.

How do we do that? We do it by taking those who don't agree with us "down" block by block "disassembling" them piece by piece. That should never be our objective in posting or writing books. As far as motives go.... only God knows our motives unless we clearly state what they are.

Ah...okay, I was wondering at your choice of word also. Disassemble is a much better choice.

But I don't see you personally being disassembled block by block, although I can actually see you feeling that way be cause we closely attatchto or identify with what we believe.

What I see being disassembled block by block is strongholds - arguments that exalt themselves against the wisdom and knowledge of God. Paul says we are supposed to do this.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Full of anti-WoF talking points based on religious prejudice and misinformation. I'd be happy to discuss any particulars, but we might need another thread as it would require a lot of commentary.

Why is it that when false teaching is exposed for what it is, there are accusation of "misinformation"? Christians have known and recognized these WOF false teachers for decades, and this is not the only source of information. Their own words and their own net worths betray them. It is just a real shame that the unsaved world has to see and hear these deceivers. And Scripture tells us plainly to identify false teachers by their covetousness and avoid them.

 

[joaniemarie]

how can it not be about who's right or wrong?

the Bible presents us with one truth, one story about one Person. who's right or wrong seems quite important to God, and so it should be to us.

Yes... We go by God's Word 100% and all born again Christians who say they are born again hold to the statement of faith below right..?



Statement of Faith

1. We believe the Bible is inspired and empowered by God, infallible and authoritative.

2. We believe in one eternal God who exists as three separate persons; the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

3. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life as He walked among men, demonstrated the authority and power of God in works and speech, died on the cross, rose from the dead on the third day, and is now seated at
the right hand of God having accomplished all that is necessary for man’s salvation.

4. We believe it is essential for man to repent of sin and by faith receive the finished work of Christ by confessing Him as Lord with his mouth and believing in his heart resulting in regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

5. We believe the Holy Spirit is continuing the work He started at Pentecost empowering believers to live a godly life and continue in all the works of Jesus.

6. We believe in the imminent return of Jesus and that those who have believed in Him will be resurrected to a heavenly dwelling in an incorruptible body, and those who do not believe will join Satan and his host in everlasting punishment.

7. We believe the true Church is composed of all born-again believers in Christ, regardless of denominational affiliation.

8. We believe all born-again believers have been commissioned to share the complete Gospel to all the world.
(NOTE: It is difficult to tell all we believe in 8 sentences, but we make this statement of faith available to those who ask for one so they will know we are Bible-believing Christians. Listening to our teachings will give you much more information. We appreciate your interest in growing in the things of the Lord!)





Some Christians want to take it further.... saying we all have to be the same in matters like.... baptism by water immersion and others say sprinkling is enough... Are these Christians heretics?

and what of this; If one speaks in tongues but their neighbor does is one a heretics? Pastors..deacons.. and no female pastors only deaconess... are they heretics? ...

Raising hands in prayer/ not raising hands in prayer.....

and what about baptism of the Holy Spirit ? are those who teach this heretics?

healing in the atonement or no healing in the atonement..

Are these issues and others I've seen added the kind God wants the church to fight over. I don't believe so. What do you think? Can you add some of your own?

 

[joaniemarie]

Ah...okay, I was wondering at your choice of word also. Disassemble is a much better choice.

But I don't see you personally being disassembled block by block, although I can actually see you feeling that way be cause we closely attatchto or identify with what we believe.

What I see being disassembled block by block is strongholds - arguments that exalt themselves against the wisdom and knowledge of God. Paul says we are supposed to do this.

Statement of Faith

1. We believe the Bible is inspired and empowered by God, infallible and authoritative.

2. We believe in one eternal God who exists as three separate persons; the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

3. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life as He walked among men, demonstrated the authority and power of God in works and speech, died on the cross, rose from the dead on the third day, and is now seated at
the right hand of God having accomplished all that is necessary for man’s salvation.

4. We believe it is essential for man to repent of sin and by faith receive the finished work of Christ by confessing Him as Lord with his mouth and believing in his heart resulting in regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

5. We believe the Holy Spirit is continuing the work He started at Pentecost empowering believers to live a godly life and continue in all the works of Jesus.

6. We believe in the imminent return of Jesus and that those who have believed in Him will be resurrected to a heavenly dwelling in an incorruptible body, and those who do not believe will join Satan and his host in everlasting punishment.

7. We believe the true Church is composed of all born-again believers in Christ, regardless of denominational affiliation.

8. We believe all born-again believers have been commissioned to share the complete Gospel to all the world.
(NOTE: It is difficult to tell all we believe in 8 sentences, but we make this statement of faith available to those who ask for one so they will know we are Bible-believing Christians. Listening to our teachings will give you much more information. We appreciate your interest in growing in the things of the Lord!)



God is telling us to fight over issues of Bible interpretation outside of the basic tenants of the Christian faith? I don't believe so.

 

[joaniemarie]

Why is it that when false teaching is exposed for what it is, there are accusation of "misinformation"? Christians have known and recognized these WOF false teachers for decades, and this is not the only source of information. Their own words and their own net worths betray them. It is just a real shame that the unsaved world has to see and hear these deceivers. And Scripture tells us plainly to identify false teachers by their covetousness and avoid them.

Statement of Faith

1. We believe the Bible is inspired and empowered by God, infallible and authoritative.

2. We believe in one eternal God who exists as three separate persons; the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

3. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life as He walked among men, demonstrated the authority and power of God in works and speech, died on the cross, rose from the dead on the third day, and is now seated at
the right hand of God having accomplished all that is necessary for man’s salvation.

4. We believe it is essential for man to repent of sin and by faith receive the finished work of Christ by confessing Him as Lord with his mouth and believing in his heart resulting in regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

5. We believe the Holy Spirit is continuing the work He started at Pentecost empowering believers to live a godly life and continue in all the works of Jesus.

6. We believe in the imminent return of Jesus and that those who have believed in Him will be resurrected to a heavenly dwelling in an incorruptible body, and those who do not believe will join Satan and his host in everlasting punishment.

7. We believe the true Church is composed of all born-again believers in Christ, regardless of denominational affiliation.

8. We believe all born-again believers have been commissioned to share the complete Gospel to all the world.
(NOTE: It is difficult to tell all we believe in 8 sentences, but we make this statement of faith available to those who ask for one so they will know we are Bible-believing Christians. Listening to our teachings will give you much more information. We appreciate your interest in growing in the things of the Lord!)

 

[joaniemarie]

Well, Stones, it does matter what we believe. Many false teachings coming becsuse people take the word as they want out of context and out of purpose.
I just renember that our Lord said that there will be a time that people who call him Lord will be rejectet. The cast out demons and made miracles in the name of Jesus, but the Lord will tell them: I dont know you.
In these days we have many people like this which doing on one side powerful things and on the other side they ignore the word of God. We as follower of the Lord should not believe every Spirit. Not every Spirit leads to God.

Statement of Faith

1. We believe the Bible is inspired and empowered by God, infallible and authoritative.

2. We believe in one eternal God who exists as three separate persons; the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

3. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life as He walked among men, demonstrated the authority and power of God in works and speech, died on the cross, rose from the dead on the third day, and is now seated at
the right hand of God having accomplished all that is necessary for man’s salvation.

4. We believe it is essential for man to repent of sin and by faith receive the finished work of Christ by confessing Him as Lord with his mouth and believing in his heart resulting in regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

5. We believe the Holy Spirit is continuing the work He started at Pentecost empowering believers to live a godly life and continue in all the works of Jesus.

6. We believe in the imminent return of Jesus and that those who have believed in Him will be resurrected to a heavenly dwelling in an incorruptible body, and those who do not believe will join Satan and his host in everlasting punishment.

7. We believe the true Church is composed of all born-again believers in Christ, regardless of denominational affiliation.

8. We believe all born-again believers have been commissioned to share the complete Gospel to all the world.
(NOTE: It is difficult to tell all we believe in 8 sentences, but we make this statement of faith available to those who ask for one so they will know we are Bible-believing Christians. Listening to our teachings will give you much more information. We appreciate your interest in growing in the things of the Lord!)

 

[joaniemarie]

Lol so I am not the only one with the spell check that changes things .
joaniemarie .
I understand a lot of what your saying. Maybe things can be expressed differently. Still we should call out and critique what we find wrong . Even if the other is within the Body of Christ and are the ones we love . If others have not stood up to expose error most of the western world would still be Catholic. Women would not be allowed to talk theology with anyone except her husband. The list can go on and on . We all stand on the shoulders of those that spoke up .
Blessings
Bill

Statement of Faith

1. We believe the Bible is inspired and empowered by God, infallible and authoritative.

2. We believe in one eternal God who exists as three separate persons; the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

3. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life as He walked among men, demonstrated the authority and power of God in works and speech, died on the cross, rose from the dead on the third day, and is now seated at
the right hand of God having accomplished all that is necessary for man’s salvation.

4. We believe it is essential for man to repent of sin and by faith receive the finished work of Christ by confessing Him as Lord with his mouth and believing in his heart resulting in regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

5. We believe the Holy Spirit is continuing the work He started at Pentecost empowering believers to live a godly life and continue in all the works of Jesus.

6. We believe in the imminent return of Jesus and that those who have believed in Him will be resurrected to a heavenly dwelling in an incorruptible body, and those who do not believe will join Satan and his host in everlasting punishment.

7. We believe the true Church is composed of all born-again believers in Christ, regardless of denominational affiliation.

8. We believe all born-again believers have been commissioned to share the complete Gospel to all the world.
(NOTE: It is difficult to tell all we believe in 8 sentences, but we make this statement of faith available to those who ask for one so they will know we are Bible-believing Christians. Listening to our teachings will give you much more information. We appreciate your interest in growing in the things of the Lord!)

 

[wolfwint]

Statement of Faith

1. We believe the Bible is inspired and empowered by God, infallible and authoritative.

2. We believe in one eternal God who exists as three separate persons; the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

3. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life as He walked among men, demonstrated the authority and power of God in works and speech, died on the cross, rose from the dead on the third day, and is now seated at
the right hand of God having accomplished all that is necessary for man’s salvation.

4. We believe it is essential for man to repent of sin and by faith receive the finished work of Christ by confessing Him as Lord with his mouth and believing in his heart resulting in regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

5. We believe the Holy Spirit is continuing the work He started at Pentecost empowering believers to live a godly life and continue in all the works of Jesus.

6. We believe in the imminent return of Jesus and that those who have believed in Him will be resurrected to a heavenly dwelling in an incorruptible body, and those who do not believe will join Satan and his host in everlasting punishment.

7. We believe the true Church is composed of all born-again believers in Christ, regardless of denominational affiliation.

8. We believe all born-again believers have been commissioned to share the complete Gospel to all the world.
(NOTE: It is difficult to tell all we believe in 8 sentences, but we make this statement of faith available to those who ask for one so they will know we are Bible-believing Christians. Listening to our teachings will give you much more information. We appreciate your interest in growing in the things of the Lord!)

Thank you joaniemary, but it seems this statement protects not to listen false spirits. Physical Healing in the Atonement as some teach it is not on biblical base. Its a man made doctrine which never was taught in the NT. Why then we should believe it? It brings believers in the pressure that they are responibility for their own sickness, if they dont get healing. It is not a way to help a sick person. Pray for him yes, but feed him not with a promiss which God never gave.
This doctrine sounds good, but it is not from our heavenly father. And if it is not from him, you should not follow.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Yes... We go by God's Word 100% and all born again Christians who say they are born again hold to the statement of faith below right..?



Statement of Faith

1. We believe the Bible is inspired and empowered by God, infallible and authoritative.

2. We believe in one eternal God who exists as three separate persons; the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

3. We believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God, born of a virgin, lived a sinless life as He walked among men, demonstrated the authority and power of God in works and speech, died on the cross, rose from the dead on the third day, and is now seated at
the right hand of God having accomplished all that is necessary for man’s salvation.

4. We believe it is essential for man to repent of sin and by faith receive the finished work of Christ by confessing Him as Lord with his mouth and believing in his heart resulting in regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

5. We believe the Holy Spirit is continuing the work He started at Pentecost empowering believers to live a godly life and continue in all the works of Jesus.

6. We believe in the imminent return of Jesus and that those who have believed in Him will be resurrected to a heavenly dwelling in an incorruptible body, and those who do not believe will join Satan and his host in everlasting punishment.

7. We believe the true Church is composed of all born-again believers in Christ, regardless of denominational affiliation.

8. We believe all born-again believers have been commissioned to share the complete Gospel to all the world.
(NOTE: It is difficult to tell all we believe in 8 sentences, but we make this statement of faith available to those who ask for one so they will know we are Bible-believing Christians. Listening to our teachings will give you much more information. We appreciate your interest in growing in the things of the Lord!)





Some Christians want to take it further.... saying we all have to be the same in matters like.... baptism by water immersion and others say sprinkling is enough... Are these Christians heretics?

and what of this; If one speaks in tongues but their neighbor does is one a heretics? Pastors..deacons.. and no female pastors only deaconess... are they heretics? ...

Raising hands in prayer/ not raising hands in prayer.....

and what about baptism of the Holy Spirit ? are those who teach this heretics?

healing in the atonement or no healing in the atonement..

Are these issues and others I've seen added the kind God wants the church to fight over. I don't believe so. What do you think? Can you add some of your own?

No. Those who teach Baptism are not heretics. If you don't receive this Baptism you are not one of His. So if someone says something different or says teaching Baptism of the Spirit is false or heretical, you should oppose them.

Listening to the Hagin video. Had to take a break at about the 40 minute point because I was sick of hearing him commend himself for so long. I'm bound and determined to finish it but need a break. I'm about to the point where I think he might be winding down on his commendation. At least hopefully.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I disagree. Getting dunked in water has nothing to do with being saved. What saves us is God's grace, through our faith. Getting dipped in a pool, lake or baptismal font, does NOT save us. WE ARE HIS the very moment we believe. Not getting baptized doesn't change that..