Healing in the Atonement?

7777pinacled · Feb 20, 2018

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Proverbs 20 Complete Jewish Bible (CJB)[/h][FONT=&quot]20 Wine is a mocker, strong liquor a rowdy;
anyone led astray by it is unwise.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]2 The dread of a king is like when a lion roars;
he who makes him angry commits a life-threatening sin.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]3 Avoiding quarrels brings a person honor;
for any fool can explode in anger.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]4 A lazy person won’t plow in winter;
so at harvest-time, when he looks, there is nothing.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]5 The heart’s real intentions are like deep water;
but a person with discernment draws them out.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]6 Most people announce that they show kindness,
but who can find someone faithful [enough to do it]?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]7 The righteous live a life of integrity;
happy are their children after them.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]8 The king seated on his judgment throne
can winnow out all evil with his glance.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]9 Who can say, “I have made my heart clean,
I am cleansed from my sin”?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]10 False weights and false measures —
Adonai detests them both.
11 The character of even a child is known by how he acts,
by whether his deeds are pure and right.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]12 The hearing ear and the seeing eye —
Adonai made them both.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]13 If you love sleep, you will become poor;
keep your eyes open, and you’ll have plenty of food.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]14 “Really bad stuff!” says the buyer [to the seller];
then he goes off and brags [about his bargain].[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]15 A person may have gold and a wealth of pearls,
but lips informed by knowledge are a precious jewel.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]16 Seize his clothes, because he guaranteed a stranger’s loan;
take them as security for that unknown woman.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]17 Food obtained by fraud may taste good,
but later the mouth is full of gravel.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]18 After consultation, plans succeed;
so take wise advice when waging war.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]19 A gossip goes around revealing secrets,
so don’t get involved with a talkative person.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]20 Whoever curses his father or mother —
his lamp will go out in total darkness.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]21 Possessions acquired quickly at first
will not be blessed in the end.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]22 Don’t say, “I’ll pay back evil for evil”;
wait for Adonai to save you.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]23 Adonai detests a double standard in weights,
and false scales are not good.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]24 A man’s steps are ordered by Adonai,
so how can a person understand his own ways?[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]25 It is a snare to dedicate a gift to God rashly
and reflect on the vows only afterwards.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]26 A wise king winnows the wicked [from the righteous]
and threshes them under the cartwheel.
27 The human spirit is a lamp of Adonai;
it searches one’s inmost being.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]28 Grace and truth preserve a king;
with grace he upholds his throne.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]29 The pride of the young is their strength;
the dignity of the old is gray hair.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]30 Blows that wound purge away evil,
yes, beatings [cleanse] one’s inmost being.

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Isaiah 53:5 But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was on him, and by his wounds we are healed.

Angela53510 · Feb 20, 2018

stonesoffire said:

So, how did Simon they Magician in Acts 8 heal people? He was not saved! How did the magicians in Egypt do their tricks? They were not saved!

The devil has an easy trick to heal people. He oppresses people, or his demons do, since he cannot be in more than one place at a time. Then, when a supposed healer comes along, and prays for healing, Satan tells the demons to release the person, and they are healed. So simple.

That is why we are not to rely on signs, wonders and miracles, because they can be counterfeited.

“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of heaven—only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven. 22 On that day, many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in your name, and in your name cast out demons and do many powerful deeds?’ 23 Then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you. Go away from me, you lawbreakers!’ Matt 7:21-23[FONT=&quot]

And this most condemning warning:

”[/FONT]For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.” Matt 24:24[FONT=&quot]

You are being deceived, there is no doubt about it! And why? Because you do not read or know the Bible!
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garee · Feb 20, 2018

DevotiontoBible said:

God who is not worshipped by human hands heals all as a common grace given to a fallen race. Some would take his healing and make it into some sort of sign and wonder as evidence they have a relationship with God..

Physical healing are used to pronounce the gospel in respect to the eternal . Christ as the Son of man said his flesh profits for nothing. There are no signs as that seen, the temporal that become the eternal .

Interestingly the word worshipped in verse 25 (Neither is worshipped) is used once is defined as (therapeutic )from the smallest healing to one that stand out and cause amazement as a wonder.All of his works are wonders.

Strongs lexicon 2323 therapeuo {ther-ap-yoo'-o}
from the same as 2324; TDNT - 3:128,331; v
AV - heal 38, cure 5, worship 1; 44
1) to serve, do service 2) to heal, cure, restore to health

For as I passed by, and beheld your devotions, I found an altar with this inscription, TO THE UNKNOWN GOD. Whom therefore ye ignorantly worship, him declare I unto you. God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands; Neither is worshipped with men's hands, as though he needed any thing, seeing he giveth to all life, and breath, and all things; And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring. Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device.Act 17:23

The whole ministry of Christ was to reveal the mysteries hid in parables

And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.And some of the Pharisees which were with him heard these words, and said unto him, Are we blind also?Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.Joh 9:39

John knew he was at a point where temporal healing was not part of the gospel, in doubt he sent for a answer and Christ used the temporal as that seen to give John confidence of the gospel using the temporal healing to represent the spiritual gospel .

Not the temporal where men die all die not receiving the promised eternal . It would of served no purpose to the gospel if what was heard and seen not being mixed with faith (the unseen eternal) .

Luke 7:22 Then Jesus answering said unto them, Go your way, and tell John what things ye have seen and heard; how that the blind see, the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, to the poor the gospel is preached.

Angela53510 · Feb 20, 2018

stonesoffire said:

I did not say what is happening to you is Placebo Effect. What I said, is that I have seen it, and medical science documents it. And I have seen people, friends, with cancer die, because they said healing was in the atonement and all they had to do was claim it.

So why do I make long posts? Have you not figured it out? Because I quote the Bible, give context, quote the Bible. These things can’t be divided up into short memes or cute sentences.

You say you have declared your beliefs and I mine. But I supported every single one of my beliefs with Scripture in context. You posted 3 or 4 verses from a Jewish Bible, of unknown quality, and some copy and pastes from Strong’s on-line or something similar.

What I am trying to do is show you what the Bible says! It never says healing is in the atonement. No one has come close to proving that. Truth is truth, and if you can’t demonstrate it in the Bible, then it is speculation and opinion. I keep hoping upon hope that you will look into what I have written, or even wonder if your “opinions” are not based on the truth of the Bible.

As for me slamming you, you going back to that same old, “Yes, but did you really pray for healing?” Or whatever you said, that is an evil slam! If there ever was one.

I prayed, I believed, I cried out to God, for years! My Word Faith friends prayed for me, declared me healed, over and over! And I believed. When I wasn’t healed, I was devastated. Then, I was condemned and judged as lacking faith, because I was not healed. Meanwhile, the ordained minister of Kenneth Copeland who got breast cancer, DIED, because she decided to quote select parts of Isa. 53, instead of getting medical treatment. That is so WRONG! My pastor at the time, when he saw how badly I had gone downhill physically in such a short time, said, he had prayed and God showed him He wasn’t through with me yet. And truly, God used my pain and suffering for so much good. And used me! I am more blessed than someone who is instantly healed could ever be. I have been refined and God is still shining up this piece of metal for HIS glory.

As for pearls, when you start posting the Bible, I will return. I’m really sick of you and others with their “opinions.” Either the Bible is true, or it isn’t! And there is no place in the Bible where it says healing is in the atonement. Jesus died to heal us of our sin sickness.

And I am truly happy you are feeling better. That was sincere! (Oh, and all my problems started when I was a passenger in a car that was rear ended by a drunk. That was the beginning of being sick for me. So, I do get how the body works with regards to this.)

garee · Feb 20, 2018

Angela53510 said:

Amen .I would not say they do not read but they do not mix faith in what they do hear or see. (The difference between the temporal and the eternal)

Natural unconverted man seeks after signs in a hope of making them into a wonder a faith principle.

They are recognized as people of no faith, other than the imaginations that come from their own fleshly minds.. again called no faith. They are the evil generation that Christ spoke of as those who do not mix the faith of Christ, the faith of God in what they do hear or see and therefore mark them as not entering the Sabbath rest.

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Our hearts could never be a source of faith. Its either the faith of Christ or no faith

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Heb 4:1

When natural man called the evil generation does not mix faith in what they hear or see. It becomes apparent they are not trusting the word of God as the sole source of Christian faith . Men then rather than being created in the invisible image of God become candidates to be bowed down to.

The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.And when the people saw what Paul had done, "they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia", The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Act 14:9 (The formula for blasphemy)

I think it is why he gives us his prescription so that we can mix the faith that comes from hearing God giving us a vision not given to natural man.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

stonesoffire · Feb 20, 2018

Angela53510 said:

Simon didn't heal anyone. Where did you get that idea? He used sorcery and lies about being a great man. But, it was Philip who worked miracles following the preaching of the Word that intrigued Simon for the power of God was greater than what he had. He bewitched the people. Tricked them.

Simon only wanted power that was evident when he offered money.

My advice to you is to join the not by works thread and let them teach you what Matthew 7 : 21-23 actually means. For all your learning, you are missing understanding of this scripture.

And I release you from your sin of judging my walk with the Lord. I forgive you for judging my heart.

By the way, the ministry I follow never once stated he is the Messiah.

stonesoffire · Feb 20, 2018

garee said:

Amen .I would not say they do not read but they do not mix faith in what they do hear or see. (The difference between the temporal and the eternal)

Natural unconverted man seeks after signs in a hope of making them into a wonder a faith principle.

They are recognized as people of no faith, other than the imaginations that come from their own fleshly minds.. again called no faith. They are the evil generation that Christ spoke of as those who do not mix the faith of Christ, the faith of God in what they do hear or see and therefore mark them as not entering the Sabbath rest.

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith.

Our hearts could never be a source of faith. Its either the faith of Christ or no faith

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world. Heb 4:1

When natural man called the evil generation does not mix faith in what they hear or see. It becomes apparent they are not trusting the word of God as the sole source of Christian faith . Men then rather than being created in the invisible image of God become candidates to be bowed down to.

The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.And when the people saw what Paul had done, "they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia", The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people.Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein:Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Act 14:9 (The formula for blasphemy)

I think it is why he gives us his prescription so that we can mix the faith that comes from hearing God giving us a vision not given to natural man.

2Co 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

I forgive you also.

stonesoffire · Feb 20, 2018

Angela53510 said:

I did not say what is happening to you is Placebo Effect. What I said, is that I have seen it, and medical science documents it. And I have seen people, friends, with cancer die, because they said healing was in the atonement and all they had to do was claim it.

So why do I make long posts? Have you not figured it out? Because I quote the Bible, give context, quote the Bible. These things can’t be divided up into short memes or cute sentences.

You say you have declared your beliefs and I mine. But I supported every single one of my beliefs with Scripture in context. You posted 3 or 4 verses from a Jewish Bible, of unknown quality, and some copy and pastes from Strong’s on-line or something similar.

What I am trying to do is show you what the Bible says! It never says healing is in the atonement. No one has come close to proving that. Truth is truth, and if you can’t demonstrate it in the Bible, then it is speculation and opinion. I keep hoping upon hope that you will look into what I have written, or even wonder if your “opinions” are not based on the truth of the Bible.

As for me slamming you, you going back to that same old, “Yes, but did you really pray for healing?” Or whatever you said, that is an evil slam! If there ever was one.

I prayed, I believed, I cried out to God, for years! My Word Faith friends prayed for me, declared me healed, over and over! And I believed. When I wasn’t healed, I was devastated. Then, I was condemned and judged as lacking faith, because I was not healed. Meanwhile, the ordained minister of Kenneth Copeland who got breast cancer, DIED, because she decided to quote select parts of Isa. 53, instead of getting medical treatment. That is so WRONG! My pastor at the time, when he saw how badly I had gone downhill physically in such a short time, said, he had prayed and God showed him He wasn’t through with me yet. And truly, God used my pain and suffering for so much good. And used me! I am more blessed than someone who is instantly healed could ever be. I have been refined and God is still shining up this piece of metal for HIS glory.

As for pearls, when you start posting the Bible, I will return. I’m really sick of you and others with their “opinions.” Either the Bible is true, or it isn’t! And there is no place in the Bible where it says healing is in the atonement. Jesus died to heal us of our sin sickness.

And I am truly happy you are feeling better. That was sincere! (Oh, and all my problems started when I was a passenger in a car that was rear ended by a drunk. That was the beginning of being sick for me. So, I do get how the body works with regards to this.)

Im not interested in unbelief.

garee · Feb 20, 2018

stonesoffire said:

Thanks. Not a salvation issue..

Curious do you think the man in Mathew 7 performed what he claimed as valid, as wonderful works ? Can God use a unbeliever to bring His work of faith ?

Stunnedbygrace · Feb 20, 2018

joaniemarie said:

Amen. And this happens as we are daily transformed by the renewing of our minds. We can't do this in our flesh. It doesn't work to try to have power in our flesh because we are now called to walk in the Spirit and learn how to be who we are IN Christ. Born again not of corruptible seed but incorruptible. When we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh... Those lusts are also fear.... confusion., weakness .... sickness.....

We were not given a spirit of fear... we have been given the Spirit of POWER and LOVE and a SOUND MIND. yet many of us are still learning how to walk in those gifts and it doesn't happen over night. We grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ daily.

Our minds are not always thinking soundly., Our minds need renewing daily. We need the water of the Word as the Holy Spirit also gives us those rivers of living water over flowing as John 7:38 says.

"He who believes in Me as the Scripture said... From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water..."

Sickness is a lust of the flesh...? Is that what you meant to say or was it a mistake?

Angela53510 · Feb 20, 2018

stonesoffire said:

Please qualify this! Jesus is not the Messiah? And what ministry are you being so cagey about? You are certainly following deceivers who are Word Faith, even if they do not say it in those words.

As for judging you - I am BEGGING you to read the Bible for yourself. As for you judging me, that I didn't believe for healing, I am so happy God and I settled that years ago.

No unbelief here. The only unbeliever is the one who rejects the testimony of Scripture!

garee · Feb 20, 2018

Stunnedbygrace said:

Sickness is a integral part of being born into a corrupted body of death.

In Adam all die.

stonesoffire · Feb 21, 2018

Angela53510 said:

You posted a scripture about false messiahs rising. I said the ministry I follow never claimed to be a messiah.

And ive posted videos and times of meetings online here many times about them.

I'm done responding to you.

stonesoffire · Feb 21, 2018

garee said:

Enjoy your state of being then.

joaniemarie · Feb 21, 2018

Many (((((HUGS)))))) to you stonesoffire .

I so appreciate you here. I'll be praying for your continued healing sissy.

Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. 1 Cor. 2:12

1ofthem · Feb 21, 2018

stonesoffire said:

This is sad and where I draw the line. If God is healing you then you praise him for it. You do not go out telling others that they are in unbelief or do not have enough faith and that is why they are not getting healed.

There is no where in the Bible that God says that he will always or has to heal everyone. He is God and his will for us is what is best for us whether it be sickness or health. I'm sure Paul had enough faith...He raised someone from the dead, yet he still had to suffer himself and God did not take that thorn from his flesh. Paul pleaded with the Lord three times to take it away. And what was God's reply....My grace is sufficient for you because my strength is made perfect in weakness.

So yeah, I take much offence in your statement to another sister in God, insinuating she is in unbelief. You people really need to wake up if you think it is God telling you this stuff.

garee · Feb 21, 2018

stonesoffire said:

Thanks, its all we have. This is the magic moment as long as today is today we can enter His rest.

7seasrekeyed · Feb 21, 2018

Angela53510 said:

try these...posted in miscellaneous by her

Seattle Revival Center Online on Facebook.

Darren Stott Charlie Shamp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Pbzrsc44UE

stuff from 'fresh fire tv'

a mish mash actually

I have no clue what she believes other than what she says and since she flips on that, I would not hold her to anything

now I suppose she will ask if I am lauren again....

you can't dabble in all this prophetic stuff without believing it...seems quite a bit of NAR type stuff

who knows...it's a secret

7777pinacled · Feb 21, 2018

stonesoffire said:

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

i agree with your sentiment here.
there are times when all a believer can do is walk away.
Even the younger members of the body are fully aware of when not to associate in quarrels of this kind.

Faith grows over time for each individual, unlike simon the sorceror who had none.
If they have no faith in the smaller miracles how will anyone tell them of the ones performed on a grander scale.

The enemy despises miracles.

And every believer should be prepared when giving a testimony of such miracles that have been answered. Because a confirmation of such is the Lords Love pouring on you, for healing in righteousness.
For the enemy of the Lord and the body, it is wrath to come.

7777pinacled · Feb 21, 2018

7777pinacled said:

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.

i agree with your sentiment here.
there are times when all a believer can do is walk away.
Even the younger members of the body are fully aware of when not to associate in quarrels of this kind.

Faith grows over time for each individual, unlike simon the sorceror who had none.
If they have no faith in the smaller miracles how will anyone tell them of the ones performed on a grander scale.

The enemy despises miracles.

And every believer should be prepared when giving a testimony of such miracles that have been answered. Because a confirmation of such is the Lords Love pouring on you, for healing in righteousness.
For the enemy of the Lord and the body, it is wrath to come.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+peter+2&version=CJB

Healing in the Atonement?

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