Ceremonial laws?

[mailmandan]

Certainly all but the 4th still apply if for no other reason than that we are told to obey the civil authority. However in another thread, I have shown that all but the 4th are commanded of NT believers.

Sabbath keeping with all it's rules and regulations, was part of a covenant with Israel (Exodus 16:23, 29; 31:12-18; 35:1-3; Leviticus 19:30; 23:2-3, 32; Numbers 15:32-36; 28:1-10; 29:39-40; I Chronicles. 23:30-31; II Chronicles 31:2-4; Isaiah 1:13; Amos 8:5; Nehemiah 10:31) that is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

*Colossians 2:16 - Therefore no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day 17 things which are a mere shadow of what is to come; but the substance belongs to Christ.

References for 9 of the 10 commandments are reiterated under the New Covenant, yet the command to keep the Sabbath day is not binding on Christians under the New Covenant.

1. You shall have no other gods before Me. - Acts 14:15
2. You shall make no idols. - 1 John 5:21
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain. - James 5:12
4. Keep the Sabbath day holy. - Not binding on the Church - Colossians 2:16-17
5. Honor your father and your mother. - Ephesians 6:1-2
6. You shall not murder. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 John 3:15
7. You shall not commit adultery. - Romans 13:9-10; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10
8. You shall not steal. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 4:28
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. - Romans 13:9-10; Colossians 3:9-10
10. You shall not covet. - Romans 13:9-10; Ephesians 5:3

The ceremonial nature of the Sabbath is clearly seen in Christ’s words, "Have you not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?" (Matthew 12::5).

If the Sabbath is a "moral" command, as SDA's teach, like stealing or adultery, how could it be violated without punishment? Could any of the other nine commandments be transgressed without sin being committed? Doesn’t this show conclusively that the Sabbath is different from the other nine? Absolutely! The priests worked on every Sabbath and did so without sinning.

Clearly, the Sabbath was ceremonial. The New Covenant Scriptures teach that the Sab*bath was a "shadow," and that Christ is the fulfilling "reality."

 

[Budman]

So, you are from that group that believes Christians live a sin free life? You are perfect and never sin?

Wow..........good for you

Nope. What I'm saying is Jesus paid for all of my sins, past, present, and future, on the cross. I have no sins attributed to me - none to pay for. I have been made holy, righteous, and perfect. The Law has no hold on me - nor any believer.

 

[Budman]

The Ceremonial Laws were surely..........but if you and others here do not believe the Ten Commandments are for the Church today, then get busy breaking them and let me know how that works out for ya

You break them every single day - how's it working out for you?

The Bible says if you break even a single one of His laws, you've broken them all. (James 2:10)

 

[Grandpa]

IF you truly believe that, then.............PLUEEZE run right out and break all Ten.......see how that works out

When we come to the Lord Jesus Christ and He gives us Rest what do you think that means??

Does it mean work at your understanding of what it means to be Righteous before God??

It means rest from our work at trying to be right before God. Because we didn't understand what it REALLY meant to be right before God. But we find out it is not by our silly carnal understanding and carnal following of the 10 commandments.

Haven't you read Matthew 5??? The Lord shows people that THINK they keep the law that they are nowhere close.

 

[garee]

When we come to the Lord Jesus Christ and He gives us Rest what do you think that means??

Does it mean work at your understanding of what it means to be Righteous before God??

It means rest from our work at trying to be right before God. Because we didn't understand what it REALLY meant to be right before God. But we find out it is not by our silly carnal understanding and carnal following of the 10 commandments.

Haven't you read Matthew 5??? The Lord shows people that THINK they keep the law that they are nowhere close.

From my experiences it has much to do how do we interpret the word keep. While the scripture defines keep as guarding with all our new soul heat and mind .

Some would define it as keep in perfect never denying Christ in respect to His work of faith the faith that works in us us to both will and do his good pleasure. (self deception) Violate the least a person will be found guilty of the whole wage (eternal separation never to rise to new spirit life.)

Luk 10:27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.

 

[p_rehbein]

You are STILL talking about the Law.......and not the Ten Commandments......I find it odd that people who are so astute at Scripture can not distinguish the two......Commandments are to be kept ........ the Law has been fulfilled.......if you think Commandments are not to be kept......where does that leave the Two Greatest? UNKEPT?

Huge difference between the Laws of Moses (Ceremonial) and the Ten Commandments (Moral).......and, you also have to answer to Romans, Chapter 1. Why is it EVEN IN the New Testament IF the Moral Laws have been abolished?

Giving rest does not mean the "end of our good works." Jesus Himself speaks of our good works many, many times.

The only thing I can come up with is that some people believe if they acknowledge the Ten Commandments they will be labeled a "Legalist" here on CC, and GOD FORBID that!

When we come to the Lord Jesus Christ and He gives us Rest what do you think that means??

Does it mean work at your understanding of what it means to be Righteous before God??

It means rest from our work at trying to be right before God. Because we didn't understand what it REALLY meant to be right before God. But we find out it is not by our silly carnal understanding and carnal following of the 10 commandments.

Haven't you read Matthew 5??? The Lord shows people that THINK they keep the law that they are nowhere close.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The 10 Commandments can not be divorced from the "moral principles" behind them....'cuz that is what they are ALL ABOUT!

And, not even going that deep........Jesus also said to obey the laws of Caesar for the Glory of God......and some of them are surely the laws of Caesar..........

Folks can ignore the Ten Commandments.......but, one day, they won't ignore them anymore........

When they were given, Moses made them confirm an oath that they would confirm and obey every word written.

Can you fulfill this in your life?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

IF you truly believe that, then.............PLUEEZE run right out and break all Ten.......see how that works out

You totally misunderstood what he said, think you can try to reread what he wrote?

I also would like to ask. When people say we are no longer bound to the law (moral or whatnot) why do people always run to the (your just excusing sin) argument?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The Ceremonial Laws were surely..........but if you and others here do not believe the Ten Commandments are for the Church today, then get busy breaking them and let me know how that works out for ya

Are you perfect? Or do you conintiue to sin, ( I never asked if you live in sin I asked if you still sin)

 

[Grandpa]

You are STILL talking about the Law.......and not the Ten Commandments......I find it odd that people who are so astute at Scripture can not distinguish the two......Commandments are to be kept ........ the Law has been fulfilled.......if you think Commandments are not to be kept......where does that leave the Two Greatest? UNKEPT?

Huge difference between the Laws of Moses (Ceremonial) and the Ten Commandments (Moral).......and, you also have to answer to Romans, Chapter 1. Why is it EVEN IN the New Testament IF the Moral Laws have been abolished?

Giving rest does not mean the "end of our good works." Jesus Himself speaks of our good works many, many times.

The only thing I can come up with is that some people believe if they acknowledge the Ten Commandments they will be labeled a "Legalist" here on CC, and GOD FORBID that!

You twist words to try and separate what cannot be separated.

2 Corinthians 3:7-11

[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

What's done away is the death and condemnation contained in the commandments. What remains is the ministration of the spirit which is our righteousness.

Any which way you want to put it. The law. The 10 commandments. We aren't under any of it. And Paul explains it every which way you could argue against it.

I wouldn't be afraid to be labeled as a legalist. If I thought the law or the commandments had any bearing on a person after coming to Christ I would be all in for legalism. But it is a sad carnal way to go.

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?​

 

[p_rehbein]

I don't think I twisted anything......so, that's not really a concern to me. I am not trying to be contrary, I am simply trying to understand how you can reconcile what your statement says to Scripture.

Looking at 1 Timothy, 3.......Paul gives SPECIFIC requirements on how a person must live their lives if they desire to be a Bishop or Deacon. These requirements are in lockstep with Moral Laws (in my opinion) In fact, as I read both of Paul's Epistles to Timothy, I believe both are directed at how Christians must live a life worthy of their calling. Living moral lives, and I just do not see how people can believe we are not to strive to live moral lives, a Christ-like life.

Romans 2:6) Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Matthew 16:27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

1 Corinthians 3:10) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

These few Scriptures convince me that we ARE to strive to live Christ-like lives, live according to the Moral Laws.....that being the Ten Commandments.........if others do not, then I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. I do not suggest that any who disagree with me are not saved or some such, just that we see/understand what Scripture says differently.....

Jesus summed this all up in one short question..........

Luke 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

anyway.......thanks for your responses and time, God bless

When we come to the Lord Jesus Christ and He gives us Rest what do you think that means??

Does it mean work at your understanding of what it means to be Righteous before God??

It means rest from our work at trying to be right before God. Because we didn't understand what it REALLY meant to be right before God. But we find out it is not by our silly carnal understanding and carnal following of the 10 commandments.

Haven't you read Matthew 5??? The Lord shows people that THINK they keep the law that they are nowhere close.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't think I twisted anything......so, that's not really a concern to me. I am not trying to be contrary, I am simply trying to understand how you can reconcile what your statement says to Scripture.

Looking at 1 Timothy, 3.......Paul gives SPECIFIC requirements on how a person must live their lives if they desire to be a Bishop or Deacon. These requirements are in lockstep with Moral Laws (in my opinion) In fact, as I read both of Paul's Epistles to Timothy, I believe both are directed at how Christians must live a life worthy of their calling. Living moral lives, and I just do not see how people can believe we are not to strive to live moral lives, a Christ-like life.

Romans 2:6) Who will render to every man according to his deeds: 7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

Matthew 16:27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

1 Corinthians 3:10) According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

These few Scriptures convince me that we ARE to strive to live Christ-like lives, live according to the Moral Laws.....that being the Ten Commandments.........if others do not, then I suppose we will have to agree to disagree. I do not suggest that any who disagree with me are not saved or some such, just that we see/understand what Scripture says differently.....

Jesus summed this all up in one short question..........

Luke 6:46) And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

anyway.......thanks for your responses and time, God bless

How can we “rest” from our work if we are bound to continue to follow law?

The law condemned anyone who does not obey ever word (every jot and tittle you could say) even breaking the least of the commands makes us guilty

So where is rest. Unless we have achieved sinless perfection? Because every time we sin, there is that law condemning us, judging us, Pushing us into submission (not to mention, it does not give us the out, the atonement, the way to be forgiven of that sin or those sins we just commited)

So again, Where is the rest?

 

[Studyman]

How can we “rest” from our work if we are bound to continue to follow law?

The law condemned anyone who does not obey ever word (every jot and tittle you could say) even breaking the least of the commands makes us guilty

So where is rest. Unless we have achieved sinless perfection? Because every time we sin, there is that law condemning us, judging us, Pushing us into submission (not to mention, it does not give us the out, the atonement, the way to be forgiven of that sin or those sins we just commited)

So again, Where is the rest?

God's Sabbath, that Jesus said was created for humans, is not "MY WORK". Passover, a Feast created by Jesus before becoming a man, is not "My Work". I would steal naturally as would you. That is "my work". I would covet what is not mine, that is "my work". I would rebel against any instruction that doesn't fit my fancy. That is the "work of man". Watch any 2 year old and witness. Watch any person who has grown up with no adult supervision.

The only time I "REST" from my works is when submitting to God's. "My Works" are to be crucified with Christ, not God's Works. My works are to be repented of, not God's.

The goal is to crucify the "Old Man" and its lusts, not God and His Works.

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Eph. 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
(Our Works, not God's)


23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

How can we be righteous and holy if we still do the "our works" because we have been convinced by some spirit that God's Works are burdensome, or too many in number?

How can we follow this instruction if we preach and believe that "God's Works(Laws) are not for the Christian", as you preach EG?

Eph. 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Can I pick and choose which one of "MY WORKS" I don't have to do no more? Can I still lie, cheat, create idols, hate, reject God's Sabbath?

Aren't these all things part of the reason the old man had to be crucified in the first place?

1 Cor. 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

It is "our work" to hate, to lie, to reject God's Sabbath, to steal, to commit adultery, to create our own gods, etc.

This is the Old Man. I don't have to create "Works" as many religions do (Christmas, Lent, Easter, Sunday Sabbath, Halloween, etc.), God has already prepared His Works for me to walk in from the foundation of the world.

Eph. 2:9 Not of (MY) works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto(HIS) good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

How can we “rest” from our work if we are bound to continue to follow law?

God's instructions are the only "works" that aren't from man. The only way to "rest" from our works is to follow the example Jesus gave, and follow the "Good Works" God created for us to walk in.

Trust in God and His Work's. He said our "Labour" would not be in vain.

 

[garee]

How can we “rest” from our work if we are bound to continue to follow law?

The law condemned anyone who does not obey ever word (every jot and tittle you could say) even breaking the least of the commands makes us guilty

So where is rest. Unless we have achieved sinless perfection? Because every time we sin, there is that law condemning us, judging us, Pushing us into submission (not to mention, it does not give us the out, the atonement, the way to be forgiven of that sin or those sins we just commited)

So again, Where is the rest?

We rest is in the works of God who works in us with us to both will and do His good pleasures. This is according to the unseen “law of faith” that does work in us. Not according to the letter of the law, as a literal interpretation. His law of faith is not without works but is in respect to His three day labor of love.

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Many missed the Sabbath (eternal) rest because they did not "mix faith" the unseen in what they did hear of see, they are reckoned as having no rest, no faith.

Makes an interesting study (mix faith) ?

Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into hisrest, any of you should seem to come short of it.For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.For we whichhave believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:(no faith) Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts. Heb 4:1-7

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God's Sabbath, that Jesus said was created for humans, is not "MY WORK". Passover, a Feast created by Jesus before becoming a man, is not "My Work". I would steal naturally as would you. That is "my work". I would covet what is not mine, that is "my work". I would rebel against any instruction that doesn't fit my fancy. That is the "work of man". Watch any 2 year old and witness. Watch any person who has grown up with no adult supervision.

The only time I "REST" from my works is when submitting to God's. "My Works" are to be crucified with Christ, not God's Works. My works are to be repented of, not God's.

The goal is to crucify the "Old Man" and its lusts, not God and His Works.

6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

Eph. 4:22 That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;
(Our Works, not God's)


23 And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;24 And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.

How can we be righteous and holy if we still do the "our works" because we have been convinced by some spirit that God's Works are burdensome, or too many in number?

How can we follow this instruction if we preach and believe that "God's Works(Laws) are not for the Christian", as you preach EG?

Eph. 4:28 Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.

Can I pick and choose which one of "MY WORKS" I don't have to do no more? Can I still lie, cheat, create idols, hate, reject God's Sabbath?

Aren't these all things part of the reason the old man had to be crucified in the first place?

1 Cor. 15:58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord,forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.

It is "our work" to hate, to lie, to reject God's Sabbath, to steal, to commit adultery, to create our own gods, etc.

This is the Old Man. I don't have to create "Works" as many religions do (Christmas, Lent, Easter, Sunday Sabbath, Halloween, etc.), God has already prepared His Works for me to walk in from the foundation of the world.

Eph. 2:9 Not of (MY) works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto(HIS) good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.




God's instructions are the only "works" that aren't from man. The only way to "rest" from our works is to follow the example Jesus gave, and follow the "Good Works" God created for us to walk in.

Trust in God and His Work's. He said our "Labour" would not be in vain.

You do not understand rest at all. Nor do you understand what the term “my work” means

My work is work done under my power. My strength, in order to earn my wage, or my reward. It is biblically work, because a work is something you can boast in (take credit for) and as paul said, a work is done to earn a wage (rom 4)

It is also work because you are under pressure, If you want the reward, You HAVE to do the work. If you want to earn your wage, You HAVE to do the work. There is no rest. Because you are bound by whatever contract you have to get the wage, or whatever prize it is you want to earn. Your performance is required. Fail to perform at a level required, You will lose your reward or wage. Or they will suffer.

The reason God can give us rest. And make his “Work” not a burden, is because we are not bound by any contract.

Also. The LAW condemned ANYONE who does not obey EVERY word. So in a feeble attempt to try to put yourself under law. Your BOUND to obey every word. This is what Paul meant when he said if your going to try to come under one aspect of the law. YOUR INDEBTED to obey every part of the law..

The sabbath was given to rest. It worked when people trusted God to supply their needs. Thus they did not have to do the work on day 7, God would make sure whatever they needed was taken care of. When people did not trust God, they ended up working on the 7th day, Because according to them, their lives depended on it.

This is no different than those who obey the 7th day because they think their salvation is dependent on it, It makes it a burden, not a day of rest.

Same goes with any command of the law., If we are doing as Jesus said, and focused on loving others and God. And NOT concerned with ourselves. We will by nature obey the law, (it is not a burden)

If on the other hand, we put our focus on self. And make it to the point we feel we HAVE to obey every little command if we want to be saved, then we are under a burden, because again, our performance is required, and if we fail to live up. Our reward (in this case salvation) is lost.

Even more dangerous is the fact the law requires obedience, As the word says, if we break even the least of all the commands, we are found as sinners, and guilty of the law. And thus must suffer its just condemnation. So they burden is MAJOR as we are minute by minute of every day required to perform so as not to mess up. Or we fail

What makes it more dangerous, is people water down the law. And say well if I do not commit those sins I am ok, orthese things ar not sins etc et. They water down the law. And make it so they can keep it. So as not to lose salvation. When in reality, the law stands, every jot and tittle will never pass away. They are still found guilty, Because the REAL laws condemned then, whether their FAKE law does or not.


And we have not even got into the “peace that surpasses all understanding” Which falls under basically the same reasoning.

 

[garee]

You do not understand rest at all. Nor do you understand what the term “my work” means

Note......Red used to represent the things of God..

It would seem you are having difficulties trying to understand whose faith is in view doing the work required. Many refuse to except the fact that God works by faith (believing) as a faithful Creator.

Therefore whose faith are you mixing in what you do hear or see coming from the word of God?

We are given the new faith coming from a newly created heart as the free gift .It (faith) does come from the imaginations of one’s own sinful heart. (The other kind which the scripture call “no faith" natural man.)

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is "no faith".

Heb 11:6 But without faith ( Christs working in us) it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Like some follow the money trail we must follow the faith of Christ trail ...he is the light unto our path.(not of our own self)

Rewarder, according to the Strong's lexicon.... is the one who pays the wage, not the one that accumulates the dept.(us). He gives us His reward of grace so that we can seek after him who has no form.

Christ’s work of faith as a three day labor of His love provided the grace of Christ needed to have our whole sin atoned for..
Nothing, neither the work nor the reward of that work that provided grace is after the flesh of men. If he has begun it, he has in effect finished it as those who do endure till the end. (Philippians 1:6)

It is the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit of God that works in us, with us, to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness .Not of us .Not of Abraham, not of Rehab.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? Jam 2:21

My work is work done under my power. My strength, in order to earn my wage, or my reward. It is biblically work, because a work is something you can boast in (take credit for) and as paul said, a work is done to earn a wage (rom 4)

You can boast but not before God.

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: Rom 4:11

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Note......Red used to represent the things of God..

It would seem you are having difficulties trying to understand whose faith is in view doing the work required. Many refuse to except the fact that God works by faith (believing) as a faithful Creator.

Therefore whose faith are you mixing in what you do hear or see coming from the word of God?

We are given the new faith coming from a newly created heart as the free gift .It (faith) does come from the imaginations of one’s own sinful heart. (The other kind which the scripture call “no faith" natural man.)

Deuteronomy 32:20 And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is "no faith".

Heb 11:6 But without faith ( Christs working in us) it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Like some follow the money trail we must follow the faith of Christ trail ...he is the light unto our path.(not of our own self)

Rewarder, according to the Strong's lexicon.... is the one who pays the wage, not the one that accumulates the dept.(us). He gives us His reward of grace so that we can seek after him who has no form.

Christ’s work of faith as a three day labor of His love provided the grace of Christ needed to have our whole sin atoned for..
Nothing, neither the work nor the reward of that work that provided grace is after the flesh of men. If he has begun it, he has in effect finished it as those who do endure till the end. (Philippians 1:6)

It is the Spirit of Christ the Holy Spirit of God that works in us, with us, to both will and do His good pleasure as a imputed righteousness .Not of us .Not of Abraham, not of Rehab.

Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way? Jam 2:21




You can boast but not before God.

What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found?For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God.For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.How was it then reckoned? when he was in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? Not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision.And he received the sign of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith which he had yet being uncircumcised: that he might be the father of all them that believe, though they be not circumcised; that righteousness might be imputed unto them also: Rom 4:11

I think thast is the point of romans 4. Abraham if found by works, could boast before men all he wanted. Just like the pharisee did, and just like th workers do today. But how they they boast before God? When God says their work as as bloody rags,and not worth anything. And only HIS work was able to save.