Can A Preacher Be Saved, And Yet Preach Heresy?

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BenFTW

Senior Member
Oct 7, 2012
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#21
Matthew 5:19 King James Version (KJV)

19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Thats pretty straight forward. Even being the least in the kingdom of Heaven, they are still in the kingdom of Heaven.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
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#22
This crossed my mind today and I'm curious what y'all think:

Can a Minister, such as a Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Myers, Mike Murdock, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker, Robert Tilton, (well, you get the idea) preach heresy and yet actually be saved?

Is it even possible? :confused:

Can they be wrong on a few subjects, or must the heresy be abundant and so far out in left field there can be no doubt they are lost?
It is NOT our job to question anyone's salvation except in that if they do not show evidence of salvation we should try to lead them to Christ.

Not all error is heresy. We should indeed try to correct doctrinal error; and expose heresy.

It is quite possible that some of those you mentioned are unsaved; but I doubt that all of them are.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
#23
That's the rub. How far is too far? At what point does human error slip into heresy?
I can give an example say hypothetically that two individuals both "read the entire Bible" but one individual intentionally preaches without mentioning Jesus whatsoever,that would be blasphemy because the individual knows of Jesus but rejects him and only acknowledges God willfully,where as say the other individual doesn't "understand" Jesus's works and so only preaches on God because it's the only doctrine they can understand,and so are merely yet to accept Jesus.
Willfully leaving out Jesus is far worse than "lacking understanding" and striving to do right for God.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
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#24
If someone is young in the ministry, expect mistakes. But if someone’s in the ministry for YEARS and preaching heresy? Watch out for them. Put a big red ‘X’ on that man.
Very well said.
There are some that I have read about who were considered heretics, yet over the years some have changed their views.

Believe it or not but I remember reading that some accused Billy Graham as being a heretic.
It's a shame when one is considered a heretic when the true gospel is preached.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#25
Define heresy please.
 
A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#26
I don't think the size of their bank balance has anything to do with it.

I know we are taking about preachers here. But we can't limit it to leaders.

Am I not preaching or building with my above posts or any other posts on other threads?
Is no Budman on the "Not by works thread? Whom I align with because we agree on doctrine.
But the truth is there are people who disagree with us and would consider it heresy.
A believers doctrine is heresy to another believers doctrine.

So I have savings that some would consider large.
I know of some in our church who have a very nice bank balance, and nice large houses.
Yet I know for a fact that the house is used to honour God and they give an awful lot of money to help others.

I do agree with you in terms of why they are doing what they are doing.

To hoard it or use it for the Lords work.
There is nothing wrong with having a healthy bank balance per sa, however I refer to preachers/teachers and it is VERY wrong to get rich in the way the likes of Benny Hinn has - to ask the vulnerable to send money "and God will bless you" and then to display your wealth openly. There is nothing wrong in covering expenses and providing for yourself but money given to God should be spent in the way Jesus would. Remember; "the son of man had no place to rest His head". No one should get rich on Jesus.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
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#27
It is NOT our job to question anyone's salvation except in that if they do not show evidence of salvation we should try to lead them to Christ.

Not all error is heresy. We should indeed try to correct doctrinal error; and expose heresy.

It is quite possible that some of those you mentioned are unsaved; but I doubt that all of them are.

I must admit I am a little confused when it comes to heresy and what it is. I totally agree with you that we should try to correct doctrinal error.

Yet some cannot seem to distinguish between doctrinal error or heresy.
They being the case the doctrinal error is heresy.

And yes amen its not our job to question anyone's salvation.

Yet I will and always say and will bang my drum about this.

If someone does not show evidence of salvation we must and it's our duty to come alongside and see what's going on.
What's behind the scenes, what's going on in their hearts.
Growth may not be forthcoming because if heresy that they have been taught amongst other things.

True evidence comes with growth, yet growth can be stunted.

We need to know why.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
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#28

No you can not teach heresy and be saved. Because all heresy begins with the nature of God, this idea of it is between God and the person yes it is, at the same time we as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ should be able to know who these heretics are and how to teach themthe truth by God's word. The reason we know that they are a heretic is because of II Peter 1:19-21

“And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” OR II Peter 3:14-16 “Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.”

Scripture has a definite meaning in the way it was written and it's context, historical backround, it is not just between God and me, this is why Paul said in II Timothy 2:20-26

But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.”

The Church is a great house and there are going to these types of people in it and the Lord puts them there so that the men of God can be learned and be able to teach these heretics the truth that the Lord may grant them repentance. What did Jesus say in the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13:29-30
But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”

The answer is no they can not preach/teach heresy and be saved, the very nature of a heresy mean they cannot be saved because their view on nature of God is not Scriptural. With God the base of all teaching when it come to preaching, salvation begins with the nature of God, so if that is off so so their salvation.
Ok let's look at the following.

Baptism saves, baptism does not save. Both of these teachings are prevalent on this forum.

One is heresy and one is not.

Who is saved?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#29
I must admit I am a little confused when it comes to heresy and what it is. I totally agree with you that we should try to correct doctrinal error.

Yet some cannot seem to distinguish between doctrinal error or heresy.
They being the case the doctrinal error is heresy.


That my friends, is what Satan is counting on. He gets us to change little by little. Time is on his side, if he can't change us: he will get our children.

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BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
4,334
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#30
There is nothing wrong with having a healthy bank balance per sa, however I refer to preachers/teachers and it is VERY wrong to get rich in the way the likes of Benny Hinn has - to ask the vulnerable to send money "and God will bless you" and then to display your wealth openly. There is nothing wrong in covering expenses and providing for yourself but money given to God should be spent in the way Jesus would. Remember; "the son of man had no place to rest His head". No one should get rich on Jesus.
Do you not think though that we are all preachers/teachers?
Whether it be Benny Hinn (whom I do not agree with).
Whenever you or I give our thoughts to others concerning doctrine are actually teaching. We may think we are not but in fact we are.

If someone comes to me and asks me for help concerning scripture and I respond am I not teaching?

Jesus said himself

Matthew 28:18-20


18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.


The great commission has been given to us all.
Yes I do agree with you with regards to giving.
Give and God will give you more back.
Fell foul of that myself.
Very much in debt.
Sought and elder.
The response was "Tithe 10% gross on a deed of covenant and God will sort out the debts"
After three years I was more in debt.

When I prayed about it God told me that my deed was not honouring.
I was the vulnerable person you talk about.
 
A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#31
Do you not think though that we are all preachers/teachers?
Whether it be Benny Hinn (whom I do not agree with).
Whenever you or I give our thoughts to others concerning doctrine are actually teaching. We may think we are not but in fact we are.

If someone comes to me and asks me for help concerning scripture and I respond am I not teaching?

Jesus said himself

Matthew 28:18-20


18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, “All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen.


The great commission has been given to us all.
Yes I do agree with you with regards to giving.
Give and God will give you more back.
Fell foul of that myself.
Very much in debt.
Sought and elder.
The response was "Tithe 10% gross on a deed of covenant and God will sort out the debts"
After three years I was more in debt.

When I prayed about it God told me that my deed was not honouring.
I was the vulnerable person you talk about.
Are you getting rich on Jesus? You seem to be missing the point.
 
Nov 19, 2016
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#33
hairesis: choice, opinion
Original Word: αἵρεσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: hairesis
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-ee-res-is)
Short Definition: a self-chosen opinion, a sect
Definition: a self-chosen opinion, a religious or philosophical sect, discord or contention.




Okay, so from what the greek here says, about Heresy as we call it. Is just a self-chosen opinion,


When it comes to viewing the holy bible scripture, and from any religion that has been created, or a philosophical section, also if you are


making a self-chosen opinion based on Scripture, it is possible for discord or contention among other believers.


If that makes any sense if this is the case.




I have chosen in my study, and lessons and being taught from someone who understood and looked at the bible, and helped a lot of people out just using the scriptures which I'm thankful for.


God sends many people a long the way, and there is no one over you... God is the only authority we have to go to which we have access to by faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.






Would consider any of this as an Heresy.


Believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has come back already.
Believe that Hell is not forever and ever and ever.
Believe that the Lake of Fire is not forever, and ever.
Believe that God can not be stopped by Satan, or any other Force.
Believe that God can and will draw all men unto Himself.
Believe that God doesn't stop working after someone dies, and leaves them in hell forever, or the lake of fire forever.
Believe that God is love, and mercy triumphs over judgement.
Believe that Hell is real
Believe that Lake of fire is real.
Believe that you can just be baptised by believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Believe that you don't have to understand the trinity to be saved, by the Lord Jesus Christ, and God.
Believe that anyone who believes in the Lord Jesus Christ has freedom to live life by the spirit, of the Lord, and Love God, and Love Others, freely with no one having dominion over them, making choices as they make them, in their communication with God as well.
Believe the Holy spirit indwells all those who believe in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 
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Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
11,551
3,188
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#34
Can a person be saved and not understand ALL the theological implications of that salvation?

Of course. Gods Ways and Gods Thoughts are far above our own.

Proverbs 5:7
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the Lord, and depart from evil.
[SUB][/SUB]
 
A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#35
No I'm not.
Why you say I'm getting rich on Jesus?
I'm trying to get you to see the difference between what is acceptable and what is not. Clearly there is a difference between the way you live your life and (for example) Benny Hinn.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
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#36
I'm trying to get you to see the difference between what is acceptable and what is not. Clearly there is a difference between the way you live your life and (for example) Benny Hinn.
Still not getting it.
To be honest I feel you have said "I'm getting rich on Jesus"

At this moment in my walk Im happy to post what I believe is acceptable or not.
If I wasn't then I would not post my thoughts. I truly would not.
A heretic is not something I want to be.
 
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A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#37
Still not getting it.
To be honest I feel you have said "I'm getting rich on Jesus"
No! I asked you a question, I didn't make a statement. Why would I think that of you? I don't even know you!
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
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#38
No! I asked you a question, I didn't make a statement. Why would I think that of you? I don't even know you!
I don't know you either.
But you asked a question based on a previous response.

And I have no idea why you asked me "Are you getting rich on Jesus?
 
A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#39
I don't know you either.
But you asked a question based on a previous response.

And I have no idea why you asked me "Are you getting rich on Jesus?
You likened yourself as a Christian to a preacher/teacher. I tried to differentiate between yourself and those who get rich on Jesus and used Benny Hinn as an example. I was trying to show you the difference by asking if you got rich on Jesus because it would appear that those such as Benny Hinn do...so in fact I was saying the opposite to what you accuse me of doing.

Can we put this to bed now? I don't think I can explain any better than I have done.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
11,780
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#40
The Bible has a HUGE amount to say on this issue.

"For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect." Matt 24:24

" For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, 4 and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths." 2 Tim. 4:3-4

"And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability." 2 Peter 3:15-17

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already. 4 Little children, you are from God and have overcome them, for he who is in you is greater than he who is in the world.5 They are from the world; therefore they speak from the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error." 1 John 4:16

"For there are many who are insubordinate, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision party. 11 They must be silenced, since they are upsetting whole families by teaching for shameful gain what they ought not to teach. 12 One of the Cretans, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. Therefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not devoting themselves to Jewish myths and the commands of people who turn away from the truth." Titus 1:10-14

"But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. 3 And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep....14They have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin. They entice unsteady souls. They have hearts trained in greed. Accursed children!...18 For, speaking loud boasts of folly, they entice by sensual passions of the flesh those who are barely escaping from those who live in error. 19 They promise them freedom, but they themselves are slaves of corruption. For whatever overcomes a person, to that he is enslaved." 2 Peter 2:1-3, 14, 18-19

The OT has a lot more on false prophets, too! Basically, anyone who preaches comfort and that God is pleased with them. Here is only a few of the verses I noted reading Jeremiah, just before Israel was taken into captivity to Babylon for apostasy and worshiping false Gods.

"An appalling and horrible thing
has happened in the land:
31 the prophets prophesy falsely,
and the priests rule at their direction;
my people love to have it so,

but what will you do when the end comes?" Jer. 5:30-31

" Then I said: “Ah, Lord God, behold, the prophets say to them, ‘You shall not see the sword, nor shall you have famine, but I will give you assured peace in this place.’” 14 And the Lord said to me: “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.15 Therefore thus says the Lord concerning the prophets who prophesy in my name although I did not send them, and who say, ‘Sword and famine shall not come upon this land’: By sword and famine those prophets shall be consumed." Jer. 14:13-15

"“I did not send the prophets,
[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot] yet they ran;
I did not speak to them,
yet they prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my council,
then they would have proclaimed my words to my people,
and they would have turned them from their evil way,
and from the evil of their deeds.
[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]23 “Am I a God at hand, declares the Lord, and not a God far away?24 Can a man hide himself in secret places so that I cannot see him? declares the Lord. Do I not fill heaven and earth? declares the Lord.25 I have heard what the prophets have said who prophesy lies in my name, saying, ‘I have dreamed, I have dreamed!’" Jer. 23:21-25[/FONT]

So, a lot of definitions and this also shows us, that heresy is not unique to today.

Matt 24:24 - false teachers - perform signs and wonders

2 Tim. 4:3-4 teachers looking for people with "itching ears." Teachers who appeal to the flesh and passions.

2 Peter 3:15-17 ignorant and unstable twist Paul's writings to their own destruction. Lawless people!

1 John 4:16 - do not acknowledge Jesus Christ has come in the flesh.

Titus 1:10-14 Circumcision party - devoting themselves to Jewish myths

2 Peter 14 - false teachers who have eyes full of adultery, insatiable for sin, enticing unsteady souls, hearts trained in greed. (All the prosperity teachers??)

Jeremiah - prophecy lies saying everything is fine, when destruction is coming. (Specific to Israel or ?) Those who claim to "have a dream" and it is not from God.

So, lots of popular teachers could fit under these categories, especially greed. And Hebrew Roots, if it is taking people away from Jesus, people who deny Jesus came in the flesh, and I think people claiming to be gods, since they don't know who Jesus is, nor the responsibilities and burdens of God.