Can A Preacher Be Saved, And Yet Preach Heresy?

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Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
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#1
This crossed my mind today and I'm curious what y'all think:

Can a Minister, such as a Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Myers, Mike Murdock, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker, Robert Tilton, (well, you get the idea) preach heresy and yet actually be saved?

Is it even possible? :confused:

Can they be wrong on a few subjects, or must the heresy be abundant and so far out in left field there can be no doubt they are lost?
 
M

Miri

Guest
#2
That would be between them and God.
 
A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#3
Everyone interprets the Bible in their own way. Does that make them Heretics? Would you be saved or me based on what we believe the Bible is telling us - or both of us based on our belief that Jesus gave Himself for us and the way we try to walk by that faith? I guess it's all about the heart.
 

Pipp

Majestic Llamacorn
Sep 17, 2013
5,536
2,701
113
Georgia
#4
Saved people are still people and as people are capable of all sorts of sins.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,260
2,111
113
51
#5
This crossed my mind today and I'm curious what y'all think:

Can a Minister, such as a Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Myers, Mike Murdock, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker, Robert Tilton, (well, you get the idea) preach heresy and yet actually be saved?

Is it even possible? :confused:

Can they be wrong on a few subjects, or must the heresy be abundant and so far out in left field there can be no doubt they are lost?

If you teach another gospel, then I would suggest that they are not saved as they do not know the gospel in the first place.

These word of faith/health and wealth guys don't just teach something that may be an error in some part, but actually teach a false gospel.

There is a huge difference between someone being in error in some point of theology and teaching a false gospel.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
#6
Everyone interprets the Bible in their own way. Does that make them Heretics? Would you be saved or me based on what we believe the Bible is telling us - or both of us based on our belief that Jesus gave Himself for us and the way we try to walk by that faith? I guess it's all about the heart.
Well, I would say errors of interpretation and blatant heresy are two different things. For example, one could believe the rapture is pre, mid, or post tribulational - or believe there will be no rapture at all, and that would not be an issue of salvation, but if one preached the resurrection of Jesus was merely symbolic - that would be blatantly heretical.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
113
#7
I would say they the following would apply.

1 Corinthians 3:9-17


9 For we are God's fellow workers; you are God's field, you are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, as a wise master builder I have laid the foundation, and another builds on it. But let each one take heed how he builds on it.
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each one's work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one's work, of what sort it is.
14 If anyone's work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward.
15 If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
16 Do you not know that you are the temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?
17 If anyone defiles the temple of God, God will destroy him. For the temple of God is holy, which temple you are.

3:11–15 Paul had established the church at Corinth on the foundation of Christ. gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw: These building materials refer to the quality of work done by the Corinthians, and possibly also to their motivations or the kinds of doctrines they taught.

The Day speaks of the time when Christ will judge the merits of His servants’ work (see 2 Cor. 5:10), not whether they receive forgiveness of sin. Likewise, fire does not refer to the “eternal fire” of damnation (see Rev. 20:10) but to the evaluation of believers’ works (see Rev. 2:18, 19; 3:18; 22:12).

Fire proves the quality of gold, but it consumes wood, hay, and stubble. Some “good work” is actually self-centered aggrandizement. The true value of such “service” will become obvious to all in the day of God’s judgment (see Rev. 3:17, 18).
3:16, 17 Do you not know: This phrase, found in nine other places in 1 Corinthians (5:6; 6:2, 3, 9, 15, 16, 19; 9:13, 24), always introduces an indisputable statement. temple:

There are two words translated temple in the NT. One refers to the temple building and all its courts; the other refers strictly to the Most Holy Place where no one but the high priest could go. Paul uses the latter term to describe the local church, in whom God dwells. Unlike 6:19, where the word temple refers to the individual believer, and Eph. 2:21, where the word speaks of the church universal, these verses speak of the local church as God’s temple. God takes very seriously our actions in the church. destroy: Any person who disrupts and destroys the church by divisions, malice, and other harmful acts invites God’s discipline (see 11:30–32). (NKJV study Bible notes)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
113
#9
Well, I would say errors of interpretation and blatant heresy are two different things. For example, one could believe the rapture is pre, mid, or post tribulational - or believe there will be no rapture at all, and that would not be an issue of salvation, but if one preached the resurrection of Jesus was merely symbolic - that would be blatantly heretical.
I see what your staying here.

But I would say that if they believe that then they were not genuine believers.

Romans 10:8-11
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”


To be the crux of the gospel message is the very fact that Jesus physically rose from the grave.
Someone asked me if I could baptise them.
I want convinced there were a believer. So I asked them if they had done the above, confess and believe.
They said no, so I asked would they like to.
They said no.
The crux was that they did not believe Jesus rose from the dead.
So I would not baptise him.

I had the reverse with someone else.
They did not believe Jesus rose from the dead.
God bought him to the place where he said "Yes I believe he rose from the dead"
I baptised him last year.

So given what you say, I would not say it's not heretical in a sense of the true Gospel message.
Because they are not even preaching the true gospel to start with and are not saved.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
#10
I see what your staying here.

But I would say that if they believe that then they were not genuine believers.

Romans 10:8-11
8 But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith which we preach): 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”


To be the crux of the gospel message is the very fact that Jesus physically rose from the grave.
Someone asked me if I could baptise them.
I want convinced there were a believer. So I asked them if they had done the above, confess and believe.
They said no, so I asked would they like to.
They said no.
The crux was that they did not believe Jesus rose from the dead.
So I would not baptise him.

I had the reverse with someone else.
They did not believe Jesus rose from the dead.
God bought him to the place where he said "Yes I believe he rose from the dead"
I baptised him last year.

So given what you say, I would not say it's not heretical in a sense of the true Gospel message.
Because they are not even preaching the true gospel to start with and are not saved.
It seems many of those preachers can get the gospel message correct - or nearly - but then go waaaaaaaay into heresyville the rest of the time.
 
A

Amazing-Grace

Guest
#11
Well, I would say errors of interpretation and blatant heresy are two different things. For example, one could believe the rapture is pre, mid, or post tribulational - or believe there will be no rapture at all, and that would not be an issue of salvation, but if one preached the resurrection of Jesus was merely symbolic - that would be blatantly heretical.
I would agree with that.

A good indicator of where their hearts are is by the size of their bank balance! Are they working for The Lord or themselves?
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
#12
I would agree with that.

A good indicator of where their hearts are is by the size of their bank balance! Are they working for The Lord or themselves?
Even that may not be a good indicator. Being rich isn't a sin. It only becomes a sin when you love money more than you love God.
 
Dec 28, 2016
5,455
236
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#13
If someone is young in the ministry, expect mistakes. But if someone’s in the ministry for YEARS and preaching heresy? Watch out for them. Put a big red ‘X’ on that man.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#15
Can a Minister, such as a Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Myers, Mike Murdock, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker, Robert Tilton, (well, you get the idea) preach heresy and yet actually be saved?
One has to wonder about this. But it is possible for those who are saved to preach and teach false doctrine, especially when they choose the doctrines of men over the Word of God, or fail to properly interpret Scripture.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
113
#16
I would agree with that.

A good indicator of where their hearts are is by the size of their bank balance! Are they working for The Lord or themselves?
I don't think the size of their bank balance has anything to do with it.

I know we are taking about preachers here. But we can't limit it to leaders.

Am I not preaching or building with my above posts or any other posts on other threads?
Is no Budman on the "Not by works thread? Whom I align with because we agree on doctrine.
But the truth is there are people who disagree with us and would consider it heresy.
A believers doctrine is heresy to another believers doctrine.

So I have savings that some would consider large.
I know of some in our church who have a very nice bank balance, and nice large houses.
Yet I know for a fact that the house is used to honour God and they give an awful lot of money to help others.

I do agree with you in terms of why they are doing what they are doing.

To hoard it or use it for the Lords work.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
#17
One has to wonder about this. But it is possible for those who are saved to preach and teach false doctrine, especially when they choose the doctrines of men over the Word of God, or fail to properly interpret Scripture.
That's the rub. How far is too far? At what point does human error slip into heresy?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,529
113
77
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#18
Can a preacher have 90 percent truth and 10 percent lies: Yes, of course that is how antichrist works.

2 Corinthians 11:14: “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

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Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#19
This crossed my mind today and I'm curious what y'all think:

Can a Minister, such as a Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Myers, Mike Murdock, Peter Popoff, Jim Bakker, Robert Tilton, (well, you get the idea) preach heresy and yet actually be saved?

Is it even possible? :confused:

Can they be wrong on a few subjects, or must the heresy be abundant and so far out in left field there can be no doubt they are lost?

No you can not teach heresy and be saved. Because all heresy begins with the nature of God, this idea of it is between God and the person yes it is, at the same time we as believers in the Lord Jesus Christ should be able to know who these heretics are and how to teach themthe truth by God's word. The reason we know that they are a heretic is because of II Peter 1:19-21

“And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts;20 knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,21 for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” OR II Peter 3:14-16 “Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless;15 and consider that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation—as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given to him, has written to you,16 as also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which untaught and unstable people twist to their own destruction, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures.”

Scripture has a definite meaning in the way it was written and it's context, historical backround, it is not just between God and me, this is why Paul said in II Timothy 2:20-26

But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver, but also of wood and clay, some for honor and some for dishonor.21 Therefore if anyone cleanses himself from the latter, he will be a vessel for honor, sanctified and useful for the Master, prepared for every good work.22 Flee also youthful lusts; but pursue righteousness, faith, love, peace with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.23 But avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife.24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient,25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth,26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will.”

The Church is a great house and there are going to these types of people in it and the Lord puts them there so that the men of God can be learned and be able to teach these heretics the truth that the Lord may grant them repentance. What did Jesus say in the parable of the wheat and the tares in Matthew 13:29-30
But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.30 Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”

The answer is no they can not preach/teach heresy and be saved, the very nature of a heresy mean they cannot be saved because their view on nature of God is not Scriptural. With God the base of all teaching when it come to preaching, salvation begins with the nature of God, so if that is off so so their salvation.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
4,153
1,998
113
#20
Can a preacher have 90 percent truth and 10 percent lies: Yes, of course that is how antichrist works.

2 Corinthians 11:14: “And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.”

View attachment 178913

Example:

A preacher could say, "God didn't flood the whole world, only the Mesopotamian valley", and I would consider that a lie, but whether the Flood was worldwide or not, it isn't a salvational issue.