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M
There are three possibilities from what I can see, there may well be more, or maybe
it’s a combination of all of the possibilities.
Possibility One
Saw a great video the other week, it might have even been on here I can’t remember
if it was here or Facebook.
But it was a relative of Benny Hinn who was brought up in the whole, “whip everyone
up into a spiritual frenzy, colour, songs, praise God” thingy etc before healings could occur as
people don’t have enough faith so got to get them in the right place spiritually etc.
He was fully into all that, then he was challenged as to why he believed all that. So he started
reading the bible.
He came across the story of the blind man who was healed by Jesus. Would he have known
it was Jesus, he couldn’t see Jesus, he couldn’t see others who had been healed for himself.
In fact when he left Jesus he was still blind, so he didn’t even see Jesus when his sight was
restored. He did not need to pray sing for hours etc. Yet he was healed and without even
seeing Jesus.
John 9:6-7 NKJV
[6] When He had said these things, He spat on the ground and made clay with
the saliva; and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay. [7] And
He said to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam" (which is translated, Sent).
So he went and washed, and came back seeing.
Then the story of the lame man at the temple who met
Peter and John, he didn’t even expect healing, he was wanting
money. So how could he have had faith for healing when he wasn’t asking for
healing. Yet he was healed.
Acts 3:2-6 NKJV
[2] And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they
laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms from
those who entered the temple; [3] who, seeing Peter and John about to go
into the temple, asked for alms. [4] And fixing his eyes on him, with John,
Peter said, "Look at us." [5] So he gave them his attention, expecting to
receive something from them. [6] Then Peter said, "Silver and gold I do
not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth,
rise up and walk."
Anyway this relative of Benny Hinn felt that if there was such a thing as faith
healing, then the faith was needed by the healer! Not the person being healed, he
left the Benny Hinn family whip um up a in frenzy as he felt it was all wrong.
Plus why in the Bible are sick people told to ask deacons, elders, leaders to pray
for them. Presumably because such people should have enough knowledge, faith,
Wisdom to heal people. Yet time and time again we are led to believe by the WOF
movement that it’s the sick people who don’t have enough faith. If faith healing
exists then if anything it’s the people who claim to be faith healers, elders,
pastors etc who don’t have enough faith! Yet they put the lack of faith onto sick
people. In theory if WOF works, then all the people who believe in this should
be praying for sick people and as the WOFers have sufficient faith then people
should be healed.
Possibility two
God does heal but not everyone and not all of the time, sometimes instant.
sometimes, not for years. Why because He is God and we are not.
Ive experienced this myself. I once had a boney nodule on my hand at the
base of my finger, the beginnings of arthritis or something. It was affecting my
ability to play my saxophone in the worship team. I felt God was telling me to
pray for healing so I did, then thought nothing more about it. A week later I
realised it was gone. It wasn’t about faith I hadn’t a specific urge to pray about it.
Didn’t know if it would work or not. This could also come under the third possibility.
I had Graves’ disease for 3.5 years I prayed all the time about that. Not specific urges
to pray just a general thing. Then I had a dream that I was told it was coming to an end.
The next hospital visit I was told my bloods were the most stable they had been for 3.5
years and from that point it was gradually healed. It was still God I believe.
Yet I also had a secondary problem to the Graves’ disease, which I haven’t been
healed from. Don’t know why. Fortunately it’s no big deal and it means I get
freebies prescriptions, so in some ways it beneficial.
My aunt was saved from death in 2015, she should have died by all accounts.
She lived, it’s a long miraculous story, but still has various medical issues.
We have learnt a lot together since that time, patience, understanding, love etc.
If she had none of these, things would not have been learnt, maybe we need to be sick
to grow in our walk with God, and grow in fruit and character.
Possibility three
Healings are there to bring glory to God not pander to our whims.
So the blind man who Jesus healed, people asked who sinned him or his parents.
Jesus said none of them it was to bring glory to God.
Job was afflicted, it was a test, he overcame and was healed and in doing so,
brought glory to God.
I know of people who have been healed and have been able to do great things for
God afterwards.
I know of unsaved people who have been healed and as a result, they turned to Christ.
(also falls into possibility one).
Maybe we ask for healing with wrong motives, or maybe there is actually more to
be gained by being sick!
To give an example a lady I know was in a bad car crash, she was paralysed from neck
down. Everyone prayed for her, she got feeling back in her arms and upper body but
was still paralysed from waist down for years. She was so frustrated and became depressed.
But then she turned to God and continued to serve him. During that time she changed as
a person grow as a Christian and began to find opportunities to share her faith,
lecture, take meetings etc. Then on day she realised feeling was coming back to her legs.
She was healed.
She started a women’s prayer ministry which took off big time, her healing brought glory
to God. She often wondered thought why she had to wait for healing, one day she felt
God tell her, that she was only interested in her body, he was more interested in her
spirit!
Plus did I say He is God and we are not.
Whatever way things work out, we will one day be fully healed body soul and
spirit when we are called home.
it’s a combination of all of the possibilities.
Possibility One
Saw a great video the other week, it might have even been on here I can’t remember
if it was here or Facebook.
But it was a relative of Benny Hinn who was brought up in the whole, “whip everyone
up into a spiritual frenzy, colour, songs, praise God” thingy etc before healings could occur as
people don’t have enough faith so got to get them in the right place spiritually etc.
He was fully into all that, then he was challenged as to why he believed all that. So he started
reading the bible.
He came across the story of the blind man who was healed by Jesus. Would he have known
it was Jesus, he couldn’t see Jesus, he couldn’t see others who had been healed for himself.
In fact when he left Jesus he was still blind, so he didn’t even see Jesus when his sight was
restored. He did not need to pray sing for hours etc. Yet he was healed and without even
seeing Jesus.
John 9:6-7 NKJV
[6] When He had said these things, He spat on the ground and made clay with
the saliva; and He anointed the eyes of the blind man with the clay. [7] And
He said to him, "Go, wash in the pool of Siloam" (which is translated, Sent).
So he went and washed, and came back seeing.
Then the story of the lame man at the temple who met
Peter and John, he didn’t even expect healing, he was wanting
money. So how could he have had faith for healing when he wasn’t asking for
healing. Yet he was healed.
Acts 3:2-6 NKJV
[2] And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they
laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms from
those who entered the temple; [3] who, seeing Peter and John about to go
into the temple, asked for alms. [4] And fixing his eyes on him, with John,
Peter said, "Look at us." [5] So he gave them his attention, expecting to
receive something from them. [6] Then Peter said, "Silver and gold I do
not have, but what I do have I give you: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth,
rise up and walk."
Anyway this relative of Benny Hinn felt that if there was such a thing as faith
healing, then the faith was needed by the healer! Not the person being healed, he
left the Benny Hinn family whip um up a in frenzy as he felt it was all wrong.
Plus why in the Bible are sick people told to ask deacons, elders, leaders to pray
for them. Presumably because such people should have enough knowledge, faith,
Wisdom to heal people. Yet time and time again we are led to believe by the WOF
movement that it’s the sick people who don’t have enough faith. If faith healing
exists then if anything it’s the people who claim to be faith healers, elders,
pastors etc who don’t have enough faith! Yet they put the lack of faith onto sick
people. In theory if WOF works, then all the people who believe in this should
be praying for sick people and as the WOFers have sufficient faith then people
should be healed.
Possibility two
God does heal but not everyone and not all of the time, sometimes instant.
sometimes, not for years. Why because He is God and we are not.
Ive experienced this myself. I once had a boney nodule on my hand at the
base of my finger, the beginnings of arthritis or something. It was affecting my
ability to play my saxophone in the worship team. I felt God was telling me to
pray for healing so I did, then thought nothing more about it. A week later I
realised it was gone. It wasn’t about faith I hadn’t a specific urge to pray about it.
Didn’t know if it would work or not. This could also come under the third possibility.
I had Graves’ disease for 3.5 years I prayed all the time about that. Not specific urges
to pray just a general thing. Then I had a dream that I was told it was coming to an end.
The next hospital visit I was told my bloods were the most stable they had been for 3.5
years and from that point it was gradually healed. It was still God I believe.
Yet I also had a secondary problem to the Graves’ disease, which I haven’t been
healed from. Don’t know why. Fortunately it’s no big deal and it means I get
freebies prescriptions, so in some ways it beneficial.
My aunt was saved from death in 2015, she should have died by all accounts.
She lived, it’s a long miraculous story, but still has various medical issues.
We have learnt a lot together since that time, patience, understanding, love etc.
If she had none of these, things would not have been learnt, maybe we need to be sick
to grow in our walk with God, and grow in fruit and character.
Possibility three
Healings are there to bring glory to God not pander to our whims.
So the blind man who Jesus healed, people asked who sinned him or his parents.
Jesus said none of them it was to bring glory to God.
Job was afflicted, it was a test, he overcame and was healed and in doing so,
brought glory to God.
I know of people who have been healed and have been able to do great things for
God afterwards.
I know of unsaved people who have been healed and as a result, they turned to Christ.
(also falls into possibility one).
Maybe we ask for healing with wrong motives, or maybe there is actually more to
be gained by being sick!
To give an example a lady I know was in a bad car crash, she was paralysed from neck
down. Everyone prayed for her, she got feeling back in her arms and upper body but
was still paralysed from waist down for years. She was so frustrated and became depressed.
But then she turned to God and continued to serve him. During that time she changed as
a person grow as a Christian and began to find opportunities to share her faith,
lecture, take meetings etc. Then on day she realised feeling was coming back to her legs.
She was healed.
She started a women’s prayer ministry which took off big time, her healing brought glory
to God. She often wondered thought why she had to wait for healing, one day she felt
God tell her, that she was only interested in her body, he was more interested in her
spirit!
Plus did I say He is God and we are not.
Whatever way things work out, we will one day be fully healed body soul and
spirit when we are called home.
7
well that is one reason I created this op
we KNOW not everyone is healed...my gripe is with those who say God has provided for the healing of everyone and then blame those who are not healed, with a lack of faith
it would be far more beneficial to discuss the realities then pie in the sky
again and if have said this prob to the point of boring some, no one here that I have seen has ever said that God does not heal, so that is fruitless
the actual question is not that question at all and just avoids the real question
the real question is why doesn't God heal everyone?
no one said joe or mary cannot believe God will heal them...I never met or spoke to ANYONE like that
I am not a cessationist...even though I grew up in a church that was...but even cessationists will pray vigorously for healing
I don't see this as a Pentecostal/Charasmatic whatever vs cessationist debate
I know you think healing is a promise...so does God break His promises?
I think not...maybe address why all are not healed of whatever ails them without blaming it on a lack of faith..cause Jesus said that faith the size of a mustard seed was enough to move mountains...
7
he also died...and the cause of death was not sickness
sweating to the point of excreating blood, is not sickness
the Bible says His sweat was as IF great drops of blood. this is actually a documented phenomena that others have experienced
it is called hematohidrosis and while very rare, is not a sickness
I think this falls into the "why doesn't God heal amputees" category.
Imagine if God did heal everyone - even to the point of having limbs grow back. Where then, would there be room for faith? If the lost saw this, they would realize beyond a shadow of a doubt that God exists, and would serve Him, not out of love, but out of obligation.
There's an old saying: God reveals Himself just enough to those who want to find Him, and conceals Himself just enough from those who don't.
Imagine if God did heal everyone - even to the point of having limbs grow back. Where then, would there be room for faith? If the lost saw this, they would realize beyond a shadow of a doubt that God exists, and would serve Him, not out of love, but out of obligation.
There's an old saying: God reveals Himself just enough to those who want to find Him, and conceals Himself just enough from those who don't.
E
Believing God will heal you is not the problem. Claiming God will heal you no matter what is. There is no place in scripture where God promised he will heal you of your your sickness and disease UNTIL after the resurrection.
Many people have walked away from God because they have been told they do not have enough money, so they lack faith,. They are not healed of a certain desiease so they lack faith. Or if they just had a little more faith, God would do this or that.
What hope do you have? Your going to sit their and tell me the hope of eternal life is no hope? That that hope is not only assured. But no matter how sick or how lame or how poor (monetarily) you are here on earth. You WILL be raised to eternal life. God WILL wipe every tear away, God WILL take this body ands give us NEW bodies free of disaease. Free of sickness. One which will never die, One which will NEVER get sick, NEVER cry, NEVER get tired. The hope which paul said was SO GREAT he considered all his tribulations here on earth as momentary light afflictions and you want to ask what Hope you have?
Wows man, your scaring me, If your hope is ONLY in physical wellbeing (health) and financial security and wealth. Then how can you have any hope in God at all?
I must ask, why all the focus on self. Can you tell me where God told us our focus as believers is to focus on self? Where in the Bible did Jesus say to of such on self and getting healthy and wealthy vs being focused on others no matter what your circumstance?
Many people have walked away from God because they have been told they do not have enough money, so they lack faith,. They are not healed of a certain desiease so they lack faith. Or if they just had a little more faith, God would do this or that.
What hope do you have? Your going to sit their and tell me the hope of eternal life is no hope? That that hope is not only assured. But no matter how sick or how lame or how poor (monetarily) you are here on earth. You WILL be raised to eternal life. God WILL wipe every tear away, God WILL take this body ands give us NEW bodies free of disaease. Free of sickness. One which will never die, One which will NEVER get sick, NEVER cry, NEVER get tired. The hope which paul said was SO GREAT he considered all his tribulations here on earth as momentary light afflictions and you want to ask what Hope you have?
Wows man, your scaring me, If your hope is ONLY in physical wellbeing (health) and financial security and wealth. Then how can you have any hope in God at all?
I must ask, why all the focus on self. Can you tell me where God told us our focus as believers is to focus on self? Where in the Bible did Jesus say to of such on self and getting healthy and wealthy vs being focused on others no matter what your circumstance?
I don't believe it is fair for us to declare someone as having an inadequate amount of faith. I do believe, however, that we can determine whether through someone's own words and theology if they have any faith to begin with. This then is not about quantity but a determination of whether or not faith is present and in use. The question isn't the amount of faith but are we in unbelief?
If we study out the doctrines surrounded by healing we can conclude through some beliefs that faith is inactive (not being used). I say this because I've heard people declare with their own lips that they have faith to be healed but more than likely they will have to wait for their glorified body. So what they are basically saying is that their faith is adequate but God has denied them for the present moment. For some this is just hopelessness, giving up. No longer is it a belief that they will be healed in this life, but one day at the end.
In this we can conclude they are not using their faith (that is adequate) to obtain healing in the present but instead, have chosen to persevere until the end. They are free to do so, but they cannot claim they have faith for healing and God has denied them because through their own words they have exposed themselves as no longer seeking healing in this life but the afterlife. They have become content in their suffering, and look ahead fixing their eyes on what is to come. For others this is not acceptable for them, they will seek healing in this life by seeking God. Not healing in the afterlife but this life. Their faith is an expectation that God will heal them in this life. That is an active faith.
All I am saying is that people profess faith but their words and doctrines betray them. I am not saying their faith is inadequate, on the contrary it is more than sufficient. I am asking if they have lost hope and are no longer using that sufficient faith to seek healing from God that He, I believe, is willing to give and instead have opted to no longer use their faith to obtain but have laid it aside, having grown weary? This is an honest, almost brutal, reality check that can be heart wrenching and for that I do apologize if I have opened anyone's wounds (emotionally).
If we study out the doctrines surrounded by healing we can conclude through some beliefs that faith is inactive (not being used). I say this because I've heard people declare with their own lips that they have faith to be healed but more than likely they will have to wait for their glorified body. So what they are basically saying is that their faith is adequate but God has denied them for the present moment. For some this is just hopelessness, giving up. No longer is it a belief that they will be healed in this life, but one day at the end.
In this we can conclude they are not using their faith (that is adequate) to obtain healing in the present but instead, have chosen to persevere until the end. They are free to do so, but they cannot claim they have faith for healing and God has denied them because through their own words they have exposed themselves as no longer seeking healing in this life but the afterlife. They have become content in their suffering, and look ahead fixing their eyes on what is to come. For others this is not acceptable for them, they will seek healing in this life by seeking God. Not healing in the afterlife but this life. Their faith is an expectation that God will heal them in this life. That is an active faith.
All I am saying is that people profess faith but their words and doctrines betray them. I am not saying their faith is inadequate, on the contrary it is more than sufficient. I am asking if they have lost hope and are no longer using that sufficient faith to seek healing from God that He, I believe, is willing to give and instead have opted to no longer use their faith to obtain but have laid it aside, having grown weary? This is an honest, almost brutal, reality check that can be heart wrenching and for that I do apologize if I have opened anyone's wounds (emotionally).
7
I'll get back in detail later, but for now let me just say, again, Jesus said that faith the size of a grain of mustard seed was enough to move mountains
(pretty sure we don't expect people to move them in reality and that was more in the category of metaphor)
I think this ^^^^is good and thoughtful and the kind of post that actually leads to discussion...so later...prob this evening
thanks!
(pretty sure we don't expect people to move them in reality and that was more in the category of metaphor)
I think this ^^^^is good and thoughtful and the kind of post that actually leads to discussion...so later...prob this evening
thanks!
Do I have an answer as to why some don't get healed? No.
Does the Bible have the answer? No.
The bible does say God has the last word on who does/doesn't get anything.
How about we ask Him instead of others who have no biblical basis to have a clue?
I do know God heals & He's our healer.
"Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven." ~ James 5:14-15
"He said, “If you listen carefully to the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you.”
Exodus 15:26"Worship the LORD your God, and his blessing will be on your food and water. I will take away sickness from among you…"
Matthew 8:16-17
16 That evening they brought to him many who were oppressed by demons, and he cast out the spirits with a word and healed all who were sick. 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah: “He took our illnesses and bore our diseases.”
I know that's not the answer yer lookin for, but that's all there is.
Does the Bible have the answer? No.
The bible does say God has the last word on who does/doesn't get anything.
How about we ask Him instead of others who have no biblical basis to have a clue?
I do know God heals & He's our healer.
"Is anyone among you sick? Let them call the elders of the church to pray over them and anoint them with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise them up. If they have sinned, they will be forgiven." ~ James 5:14-15
"He said, “If you listen carefully to the LORD your God and do what is right in his eyes, if you pay attention to his commands and keep all his decrees, I will not bring on you any of the diseases I brought on the Egyptians, for I am the LORD, who heals you.”
Exodus 15:26"Worship the LORD your God, and his blessing will be on your food and water. I will take away sickness from among you…"
Matthew 8:16-17
16 That evening they brought to him many who were oppressed by demons, and he cast out the spirits with a word and healed all who were sick. 17 This was to fulfill what was spoken by the prophet Isaiah: “He took our illnesses and bore our diseases.”
I know that's not the answer yer lookin for, but that's all there is.
J
The better question is "who hasn't been healed by God"?
Everyone has at some point "been healed by God" the only question is "in what way" a healing of the heart,or a physical healing?
Each and every one of us has had "healing from God" the problem is that we "don't perceive it" we vainly look for something we can "physically see".
For instance healing can be in the form a friend or a lover or relative whom comes into your life when you perhaps are "lonely" "depressed" "troubled financially" "have no direction in life" and God gives what we "need" not merely what we "want".
Like in what 7 seas shared a person in a wheelchair seeking healing well perhaps the person can better "serve God" in such an impairment,we don't know all the "reasons" for our afflictions or impairments but God "always" heals us in some way and helps us when we are in "need" it is not for us to decide what is defined to God as "healing" our focus should be upon "serving" not "worrying".
Everyone has at some point "been healed by God" the only question is "in what way" a healing of the heart,or a physical healing?
Each and every one of us has had "healing from God" the problem is that we "don't perceive it" we vainly look for something we can "physically see".
For instance healing can be in the form a friend or a lover or relative whom comes into your life when you perhaps are "lonely" "depressed" "troubled financially" "have no direction in life" and God gives what we "need" not merely what we "want".
Like in what 7 seas shared a person in a wheelchair seeking healing well perhaps the person can better "serve God" in such an impairment,we don't know all the "reasons" for our afflictions or impairments but God "always" heals us in some way and helps us when we are in "need" it is not for us to decide what is defined to God as "healing" our focus should be upon "serving" not "worrying".
7
you know, obligation sooner or later can also result resentment
anyway, if anyone had miracles more then they could remember, it was the Israelites and that whole Egypt saga
they made a golden calf
people are still making golden calves and I begin to suspect this healing thing may be one.....begins to sound like a 'God show us you exist extravaganza' with some...everyone notice I said some please....people
dare to say God (obviously) does not heal everyone and they will tell you that your faith is not real or not enough...some even say you are not saved...or why should God heal those who do not believe...and myriad other excuses for the fact that the actual simple truth of the matter...is that...HELLO!! God DOES NOT heal everyone at all and never did
that golden calf of healing needs to be dismantled
anyway, if anyone had miracles more then they could remember, it was the Israelites and that whole Egypt saga
they made a golden calf
people are still making golden calves and I begin to suspect this healing thing may be one.....begins to sound like a 'God show us you exist extravaganza' with some...everyone notice I said some please....people
dare to say God (obviously) does not heal everyone and they will tell you that your faith is not real or not enough...some even say you are not saved...or why should God heal those who do not believe...and myriad other excuses for the fact that the actual simple truth of the matter...is that...HELLO!! God DOES NOT heal everyone at all and never did
that golden calf of healing needs to be dismantled
7
BenFTW;3471202]I don't believe it is fair for us to declare someone as having an inadequate amount of faith. I do believe, however, that we can determine whether through someone's own words and theology if they have any faith to begin with. This then is not about quantity but a determination of whether or not faith is present and in use. The question isn't the amount of faith but are we in unbelief?
well, if your actual thought is that it is not fair to say someone does not have enough faith, then I do agree with that...then you add the word 'however' and stick on a 'however' and go even further and say it may be worse than not enough faith...it may be no faith at all. that's a bit like saying I won't throw a rock at you, but I have this grenade along just in case
if you are speaking of believers...then they have faith or they would not be a believer...I would suggest that God sometimes heals those who are not believers to cause them (hopefully) to look up...to Him
so you would like to change the question to: is/are people who are not healed in unbelief? is this a question for everyone who is not healed or only those you determine are in that state?
If we study out the doctrines surrounded by healing we can conclude through some beliefs that faith is inactive (not being used).
we can? how about just using the good ole Bible. what does the Bible say about it. I would suggest that there are 2 very good posts...one from posthuman and one from Miri ....that have gone into some length into answering the questions concerning healing. where do we store unused faith? is there a best before date on it? does it go bad?
I say this because I've heard people declare with their own lips that they have faith to be healed but more than likely they will have to wait for their glorified body. So what they are basically saying is that their faith is adequate but God has denied them for the present moment. For some this is just hopelessness, giving up. No longer is it a belief that they will be healed in this life, but one day at the end.
yeah? so? you think that ties up God's 'hands' in some way? there are mulitple stories in scripture that indicate a lack of faith but yet God mercifully acts anyway...because HE KNOWS THE HEART AND DOES NOT JUDGE BY OUTWARD APPEARANCES THE WAY SO MANY DO. further, it does nothing to mitigate the many many prayers with all faith by those who KNOW if anyone heal them, God can, that God answers with a resounding NO. what happened there? that is the basis for this op
In this we can conclude they are not using their faith (that is adequate) to obtain healing in the present but instead, have chosen to persevere until the end.
you know, yesterday (Sunday) I didn't get this far into your response here and looked forward to perhaps reading and responding to something different then you and others have indicated in the past with regards to God healing and the faith of those who call on Him...but so far, you have simply put a little varnish on the default response and frankly, you just actually wrote the default response, of 'the person did not have enough faith so God could not heal them' (which makes God small and people somehow praying to a god that is at the whimsy of their prayers and that only they can somehow activate with gobs of faith)...do you really believe you have changed the equation of 'not enough faith?'
God would that we all persevere to the end...which none of us can without His Spirit
They are free to do so, but they cannot claim they have faith for healing and God has denied them because through their own words they have exposed themselves as no longer seeking healing in this life but the afterlife. They have become content in their suffering, and look ahead fixing their eyes on what is to come. For others this is not acceptable for them, they will seek healing in this life by seeking God. Not healing in the afterlife but this life. Their faith is an expectation that God will heal them in this life. That is an active faith.
ok...now all I read is same ole same ole same ole not enough faith. VERY disappointing. dude...you have to have ACTIVE faith to be even the weakest believer. this is the kind of rubbish that harms people and frankly, befuddles the mind that someone believes faith is inactive in a believer., or worse, that God somehow has put some aside until they die. that is shrieking crazy to think like that IMO
All I am saying is that people profess faith but their words and doctrines betray them. I am not saying their faith is inadequate, on the contrary it is more than sufficient. I am asking if they have lost hope and are no longer using that sufficient faith to seek healing from God that He, I believe, is willing to give and instead have opted to no longer use their faith to obtain but have laid it aside, having grown weary? This is an honest, almost brutal, reality check that can be heart wrenching and for that I do apologize if I have opened anyone's wounds (emotionally).
I am disappointed ... I actually dared think I was going to read something a little different.
well, if your actual thought is that it is not fair to say someone does not have enough faith, then I do agree with that...then you add the word 'however' and stick on a 'however' and go even further and say it may be worse than not enough faith...it may be no faith at all. that's a bit like saying I won't throw a rock at you, but I have this grenade along just in case
if you are speaking of believers...then they have faith or they would not be a believer...I would suggest that God sometimes heals those who are not believers to cause them (hopefully) to look up...to Him
so you would like to change the question to: is/are people who are not healed in unbelief? is this a question for everyone who is not healed or only those you determine are in that state?
If we study out the doctrines surrounded by healing we can conclude through some beliefs that faith is inactive (not being used).
we can? how about just using the good ole Bible. what does the Bible say about it. I would suggest that there are 2 very good posts...one from posthuman and one from Miri ....that have gone into some length into answering the questions concerning healing. where do we store unused faith? is there a best before date on it? does it go bad?
I say this because I've heard people declare with their own lips that they have faith to be healed but more than likely they will have to wait for their glorified body. So what they are basically saying is that their faith is adequate but God has denied them for the present moment. For some this is just hopelessness, giving up. No longer is it a belief that they will be healed in this life, but one day at the end.
yeah? so? you think that ties up God's 'hands' in some way? there are mulitple stories in scripture that indicate a lack of faith but yet God mercifully acts anyway...because HE KNOWS THE HEART AND DOES NOT JUDGE BY OUTWARD APPEARANCES THE WAY SO MANY DO. further, it does nothing to mitigate the many many prayers with all faith by those who KNOW if anyone heal them, God can, that God answers with a resounding NO. what happened there? that is the basis for this op
In this we can conclude they are not using their faith (that is adequate) to obtain healing in the present but instead, have chosen to persevere until the end.
you know, yesterday (Sunday) I didn't get this far into your response here and looked forward to perhaps reading and responding to something different then you and others have indicated in the past with regards to God healing and the faith of those who call on Him...but so far, you have simply put a little varnish on the default response and frankly, you just actually wrote the default response, of 'the person did not have enough faith so God could not heal them' (which makes God small and people somehow praying to a god that is at the whimsy of their prayers and that only they can somehow activate with gobs of faith)...do you really believe you have changed the equation of 'not enough faith?'
God would that we all persevere to the end...which none of us can without His Spirit
They are free to do so, but they cannot claim they have faith for healing and God has denied them because through their own words they have exposed themselves as no longer seeking healing in this life but the afterlife. They have become content in their suffering, and look ahead fixing their eyes on what is to come. For others this is not acceptable for them, they will seek healing in this life by seeking God. Not healing in the afterlife but this life. Their faith is an expectation that God will heal them in this life. That is an active faith.
ok...now all I read is same ole same ole same ole not enough faith. VERY disappointing. dude...you have to have ACTIVE faith to be even the weakest believer. this is the kind of rubbish that harms people and frankly, befuddles the mind that someone believes faith is inactive in a believer., or worse, that God somehow has put some aside until they die. that is shrieking crazy to think like that IMO
All I am saying is that people profess faith but their words and doctrines betray them. I am not saying their faith is inadequate, on the contrary it is more than sufficient. I am asking if they have lost hope and are no longer using that sufficient faith to seek healing from God that He, I believe, is willing to give and instead have opted to no longer use their faith to obtain but have laid it aside, having grown weary? This is an honest, almost brutal, reality check that can be heart wrenching and for that I do apologize if I have opened anyone's wounds (emotionally).
I am disappointed ... I actually dared think I was going to read something a little different.
7
I have a question here for all you 'you don't have enough faith' folks
doesn't the Bible say faith comes from God?
doesn't the Bible say we can ask for faith...I know it says to ask and not to waiver...but presumption is not faith and I believe quite a few in this world operate on presumption and BLAME others if they are not healed and I see no response in this thread that would give me pause and change my mind
how about where is YOUR faith that God actually hears ALL prayers...even the ones you judge as not good enough?
you know...as someone in the Bible had the nerve to say....I believe...help my unbelief
everyone is not healed and I don't know how the mind works that insists everyone should be healed when the BLATANT answer from God Himself, IN His word, reveals that is not so...the evidence is all around...how can you manage to ignore it?
the irresponsible harm done to people with they teaching is something I am sure God will address when the time comes
doesn't the Bible say faith comes from God?
doesn't the Bible say we can ask for faith...I know it says to ask and not to waiver...but presumption is not faith and I believe quite a few in this world operate on presumption and BLAME others if they are not healed and I see no response in this thread that would give me pause and change my mind
how about where is YOUR faith that God actually hears ALL prayers...even the ones you judge as not good enough?
you know...as someone in the Bible had the nerve to say....I believe...help my unbelief
everyone is not healed and I don't know how the mind works that insists everyone should be healed when the BLATANT answer from God Himself, IN His word, reveals that is not so...the evidence is all around...how can you manage to ignore it?
the irresponsible harm done to people with they teaching is something I am sure God will address when the time comes
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