Peter, the Rock, the Keys, and the Chair -by Steve Ray (ex baptist)

[onlinebuddy]

Steve Ray was born a Baptist, but got converted to Catholicism.
In the video, he attempts to teach that the Catholic Church is the only church that is true.

Please comment/support/refute...
Thank you.

[video=youtube;faIB-sOBDKk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=faIB-sOBDKk&feature=youtu.be&t=2494[/video]

 

[Budman]

I'm not watching an hour long video from a false teacher.

 

[prove-all]

I did not waste my time viewing the video,
The Rock is [Christ] not Peter


Then Jesus added: “And I say also unto thee, That thou art
Peter” (Greek inspired original word, Petros, meaning a stone),

“and upon this rock” (Greek inspired original word, petra,
meaning a ledge or shelf of rock or a crag) “I will build my
church …” (Matthew 16:18).

Peter was also called Cephas (Greek Képhas, from the Aramaic Kêpha).
In John 1:40-42 is related how Andrew,Simon Peter’s brother, found Peter,
and brought him to Jesus.“And when Jesus beheld him, he said,
Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas,
which is by interpretation, a stone”

The English word stone is translated from the Greek word petros,
meaning a single stone or loose stone. Also the Greek word Kephas
means such a stone, referring definitely to a human man.

when Jesus said “upon this rock I will build my church” (Matthew 16:18),

the Greek word, as written originally by Matthew, was not either Kephas or petros,
but petra, which means a large massive rock.

a few other passages where this same Greek word petra is used. In Matthew 7:24,
Jesus spoke of the man who built his house on a rock. The Greek word is petra

In Matthew 27:60, it is stated that the tomb in which Jesus was buried, after the crucifixion,
was hewn out in the rock — in the petra! This is a mass of rock, not a single stone.

The Greek petra cannot mean the human Peter, but the glorified Christ! Speaking of the
Israelites under Moses, in the wilderness, Paul writes: “… for they drank of that spiritual
Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ” (1 Corinthians 10:4).

In plain language, then, that petra was Christ—but the
smaller stone, petros, or Kephas, was Simon Peter.


Behold, I lay in Sion [the Church] a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that
believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is
precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed,
the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of
offense, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also
they were appointed” (1 Peter 2:6-8).

In the above passage Peter is speaking to the Church.

He quoted from Isaiah 28:16: “Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion
for a foundation, a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation”!


This pictures Christ as that foundation of the Church, on which it is built.
God’s Church was built on the ROCK (its foundation),Christ—not on the stone, Peter

The Church is described in Ephesians 2:20 as being “built upon the foundation of the
apostles and prophets [including Old Testament prophets], Jesus Christ himself being
the chief corner stone.”

“For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,
which is Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:11)

“I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee” (Hebrews 13:5)He is shown
in Revelation 1:13, 18 to be the living Head, spiritually in the midst of the Church.

“Christ is the head of the church”! (Ephesians 5:23). Read it
also in Ephesians 4:15; 1:22; Colossians 1:18; 2:19.

He has been the living Head and High
Priest of the true Church, which He built.




Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build
my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever
thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on
earth shall be loosed in heaven.


In the Greek the word for Peter and Rock are different. We find this written about the Rock...

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock
that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner
stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient,
the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the
word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.


In these cases the Rock is referring to Christ, not Peter.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Steve Ray was born a Baptist, but got converted to Catholicism. In the video, he attempts to teach that the Catholic Church is the only church that is true.

Unless you are planning to be another Steve Ray, you should not be bothering with this junk. I have no intention of wasting time on False Christianity, and neither should you.

 

[onlinebuddy]

I perfectly understand why some of us wouldn't want to waste an hour watching this video. However, I have taken out the time and watched it, as I have family members in the RCC who believe in all this stuff.

Whenever I need help, I always turn to ChrisianChat, because here I have found people who know what they are talking about.


Let me summarize what Steve Ray is trying to say in this video:
1. Where in the Bible does it say, that "Everything has to be found in the Bible."


2. Jesus changed the feminine noun "Petra" to a masculine noun "Petros" and called Peter the "Petros."


3. As Jesus made Peter the rock, he was pointing out to a huge rock at Caesarea Phillipi, which was 500 feet long x 100 feet high, that was a site of pagan worship.
That was the false rock, whereas, Peter was the true rock.
The pagan world had the false rock, the false church(caesar worship) and the water that flowed from a cave beneath the rock.
Jesus gave us the true rock(Peter), the true church, and the sacraments (which is like that flowing


4. Jesus gave Peter "THE KEY" (singular) not the keys. The key represents "exclusive dominion" that Jesus gave to the RCC.


5. Jesus said, "I will give YOU the keys...."
He did not say, "I will give YOU ALL the keys..."
Therefore only Peter and his successors have the key to the kingdom. The keys are NOT the gospel, but the authority of the RCC to validate the entry of a person into the kingdom of God.


6. When Peter was given the keys, he was not thinking about a democracy such as America. He was thinking about a Monarchy, where there is a Monarch and then there was a Royal Steward. The Royal Steward was the second in command, and carried a large key with which he could open and close the city gates. Peter was this Royal Steward. At the end of time, Peter will hand over the keys back to Jesus.


7. Once the Royal Steward died, his office was continued by another one. The catholic Pope holds a dynastic office which is a continuation of Peter's office. The RCC has a list of popes who have continued Peter's office till date. That is the longest existing office in the world.


8. The Chair of Peter was not something that the RCC has invented. The chair of Moses became the chair of Peter and is the chair of the Pope today. It is a 3500 year old chair. The chair was there even before the cannon of scripture was put together.


9. The Pope is not impeccable. He goes for confession. However, the Pope is infallible in the sense that "the Holy Spirit superintends the mouths of men to create in them infallibility in the right conditions."


10. The RCC is a large ship with all the navigational ability and all the life saving equipment. The Baptist church is a raft that separated from the large ship, and is floating around. This raft needs to return to the ship.

 

[MarcR]

I did not waste my time viewing the video,
The Rock is [Christ] not Peter


Then Jesus added: “And I say also unto thee, That thou art
Peter” (Greek inspired original word, Petros, meaning a stone),

“and upon this rock” (Greek inspired original word, petra,
meaning a ledge or shelf of rock or a crag) “I will build my
church …” (Matthew 16:18).

Peter was also called Cephas (Greek Képhas, from the Aramaic Kêpha).
In John 1:40-42 is related how Andrew,Simon Peter’s brother, found Peter,
and brought him to Jesus.“And when Jesus beheld him, he said,
Thou art Simon the son of Jona: thou shalt be called Cephas,
which is by interpretation, a stone”

The English word stone is translated from the Greek word petros,
meaning a single stone or loose stone. Also the Greek word Kephas
means such a stone, referring definitely to a human man.

when Jesus said “upon this rock I will build my church” (Matthew 16:18),

the Greek word, as written originally by Matthew, was not either Kephas or petros,
but petra, which means a large massive rock.

a few other passages where this same Greek word petra is used. In Matthew 7:24,
Jesus spoke of the man who built his house on a rock. The Greek word is petra

In Matthew 27:60, it is stated that the tomb in which Jesus was buried, after the crucifixion,
was hewn out in the rock — in the petra! This is a mass of rock, not a single stone.

The Greek petra cannot mean the human Peter, but the glorified Christ! Speaking of the
Israelites under Moses, in the wilderness, Paul writes: “… for they drank of that spiritual
Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ” (1 Corinthians 10:4).

In plain language, then, that petra was Christ—but the
smaller stone, petros, or Kephas, was Simon Peter.


Behold, I lay in Sion [the Church] a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that
believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe he is
precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed,
the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of
offense, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also
they were appointed” (1 Peter 2:6-8).

In the above passage Peter is speaking to the Church.

He quoted from Isaiah 28:16: “Therefore thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I lay in Zion
for a foundation, a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation”!


This pictures Christ as that foundation of the Church, on which it is built.
God’s Church was built on the ROCK (its foundation),Christ—not on the stone, Peter

The Church is described in Ephesians 2:20 as being “built upon the foundation of the
apostles and prophets [including Old Testament prophets], Jesus Christ himself being
the chief corner stone.”

“For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid,
which is Jesus Christ” (1 Corinthians 3:11)

“I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee” (Hebrews 13:5)He is shown
in Revelation 1:13, 18 to be the living Head, spiritually in the midst of the Church.

“Christ is the head of the church”! (Ephesians 5:23). Read it
also in Ephesians 4:15; 1:22; Colossians 1:18; 2:19.

He has been the living Head and High
Priest of the true Church, which He built.




Mat 16:17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona:
for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build
my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever
thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on
earth shall be loosed in heaven.


In the Greek the word for Peter and Rock are different. We find this written about the Rock...

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock
that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner
stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
1Pe 2:7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient,
the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,
1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the
word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.


In these cases the Rock is referring to Christ, not Peter.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build
my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.


That thou art Peter Thou art pebble.

upon this rock There are two possible interpretations here:

1) The rock in question is Peter's confession of Faith in Jesus' Deity.

2) The location was Caesarea Philippi, which was built on a rocky prominence with 3 caves [each a temple to a different idol] below, which were known as the gates of Hell. The Church of San Sophia was built on that very rock.




Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever
thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on
earth shall be loosed in heaven.

keys of the kingdom At the time, rabbis selected a group of disciples to be trained. When the Rabbi thought one was sufficiently trained, he was given a SYMBOLIC key to the temple representing authority to teach. The key(s) given to Peter represented the same authority.

and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on
earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The intent here is NOT that Peter will dictate the rules of heaven!!! It is that what is allowed or forbidden should be Spiritually discerned in the same way as Peter's confession.

 

[trofimus]

Peter was for Jews, Paul was for Gentiles.

There is no basis for a claim that Peter was over all church (or any bishop of Rome, respectivelly).

 

[trofimus]

I perfectly understand why some of us wouldn't want to waste an hour watching this video. However, I have taken out the time and watched it, as I have family members in the RCC who believe in all this stuff.

Whenever I need help, I always turn to ChrisianChat, because here I have found people who know what they are talking about.


Let me summarize what Steve Ray is trying to say in this video:
1. Where in the Bible does it say, that "Everything has to be found in the Bible."


2. Jesus changed the feminine noun "Petra" to a masculine noun "Petros" and called Peter the "Petros."


3. As Jesus made Peter the rock, he was pointing out to a huge rock at Caesarea Phillipi, which was 500 feet long x 100 feet high, that was a site of pagan worship.
That was the false rock, whereas, Peter was the true rock.
The pagan world had the false rock, the false church(caesar worship) and the water that flowed from a cave beneath the rock.
Jesus gave us the true rock(Peter), the true church, and the sacraments (which is like that flowing


4. Jesus gave Peter "THE KEY" (singular) not the keys. The key represents "exclusive dominion" that Jesus gave to the RCC.


5. Jesus said, "I will give YOU the keys...."
He did not say, "I will give YOU ALL the keys..."
Therefore only Peter and his successors have the key to the kingdom. The keys are NOT the gospel, but the authority of the RCC to validate the entry of a person into the kingdom of God.


6. When Peter was given the keys, he was not thinking about a democracy such as America. He was thinking about a Monarchy, where there is a Monarch and then there was a Royal Steward. The Royal Steward was the second in command, and carried a large key with which he could open and close the city gates. Peter was this Royal Steward. At the end of time, Peter will hand over the keys back to Jesus.


7. Once the Royal Steward died, his office was continued by another one. The catholic Pope holds a dynastic office which is a continuation of Peter's office. The RCC has a list of popes who have continued Peter's office till date. That is the longest existing office in the world.


8. The Chair of Peter was not something that the RCC has invented. The chair of Moses became the chair of Peter and is the chair of the Pope today. It is a 3500 year old chair. The chair was there even before the cannon of scripture was put together.


9. The Pope is not impeccable. He goes for confession. However, the Pope is infallible in the sense that "the Holy Spirit superintends the mouths of men to create in them infallibility in the right conditions."


10. The RCC is a large ship with all the navigational ability and all the life saving equipment. The Baptist church is a raft that separated from the large ship, and is floating around. This raft needs to return to the ship.

1. Nowhere. But this cannot be the base for a papal office legitimacy. You need a positive proof its legitimate. The only one proof the RCC has is the RCC tradition, which is circular reasoning.

2. The change from feminine to masculine in one sentence is an evidence against the view that Jesus was talking about Peter.

3. Irrelevant.

4. "δώσω σοι τὰς κλεῖδας τῆς βασιλείας τῶν οὐρανῶν" Mt 16:19
- its plural, not singular

5. Now I am confused, if 4. or 5. are supposed to be a proof.

6. What Peter was thinking about is irrelevant. Paul clearly says that God does not prefer any person in leadership of the church.
"As for those who were held in high esteem--whatever they were makes no difference to me; God does not show favoritism--they added nothing to my message." Gal 2:6

7. These claims of the RCC are not accepted as real by any other church, not even by the orthodox church that is as old as the RCC.

8. The same as 7.

9. The same as 7.

10. Meh.

 

[OneFaith]

Was Peter prophesied about in the Old Testament or was Christ the prophesied rock in the Old Testament? Read 1 Corinthians 10:4. Jesus is the rock, not Peter. Jesus said “”Anyone who accepts these words of Mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on a rock.” Does this verse say the words of the rock are Peter’s words? When the Bible says “The rock that the workers rejected has become the capstone (foundation) were they speaking of Peter? No, they were speaking of Christ.

It’s Christ’s Church, not Peter’s. Christ is the Teacher, we are all the students, including Peter. Jesus said to Peter “Upon this rock I will build My Church.” And what was that rock? Confession that Jesus is the Christ the Son of the living God. Jesus gave Peter the keys to the kingdom (repent and be baptized), and he may be the first to use them, but we all use them, they are not Peter’s keys, they belong to Christ Who told us to pass them along. “Go and make disciples of all nations”

Jesus said not to call anyone on earth Father, and not to be called teacher because we have one teacher- Christ (not Peter). We all pass along the teachings of Christ- including Peter. That means the church is not built on me, you, Peter, or anyone else’s words, only Christ’s words (doctrine). For He commanded the apostles (not just Peter) to teach us all that He commanded them to- which is called the New Testament.

SONG:
My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness. I dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on Jesus’ name. On Christ the solid rock I stand, all other ground is sinking sand, all other ground (doctrine) is sinking sand.

NOTE: Open your eyes. Jesus said His Word (that He commanded the apostles to write) was finished- not to add to it nor take away from it. And that is exactly what Catholics do- which is why they have their own bible. Don’t let them convince you that those added books are legitimate scripture. They don’t go along with the Bible. Catholics are always changing the rules, even to this very day. Truth don’t change. Christ’s Church will not change until His return. Don’t be fooled.

 

[MattforJesus]

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

There is no other foundation that can be laid but Jesus Christ who is the chief cornerstone,and the head of the Church.

The whole Church is built upon Jesus Christ.

If Jesus meant He is the rock the Church is built upon Him.

If Jesus meant Peter is the rock there is still no problem.

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

When it refers to Jesus as being the Rock it is a capital.

I believe He was referring to Peter as the rock that the Church is built upon,for He also stated that Peter shall receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven,but we know also that it is Jesus that has the keys to the kingdom of heaven for it opened it up for people to enter heaven.

Jesus is the Rock who has the keys to heaven,and the keys of hell and death which He conquered.

But I believe He was speaking to Peter that he is the rock that the Church shall be built upon,and also received the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

Which means that Christ is the foundation,chief cornerstone,and head of the Church,but Peter is the first person added to the Church,having been converted first which Jesus said when you are converted strengthen your brothers,and preached the first message to the people concerning the Church.

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The whole Church is built upon Jesus Christ the chief cornerstone,and Peter was the first person added to the Church,and that is what Jesus meant that Peter is the rock that He shall build His Church concerning people being added to the Church after Christ,which Peter was the first,and then the apostles and prophets,and then people in the order they are saved as they are built upon each other like a building.

So Jesus saying Peter is the rock does no damage for it only means he is the first person added to the Church after Christ,and somebody has to be built upon Christ,and that is Peter who also received the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

But Peter was no Pope,and the Bible never tells of a Pope,for Christ is the head of the Church.

 

[OneFaith]

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Mat 16:19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

There is no other foundation that can be laid but Jesus Christ who is the chief cornerstone,and the head of the Church.

The whole Church is built upon Jesus Christ.

If Jesus meant He is the rock the Church is built upon Him.

If Jesus meant Peter is the rock there is still no problem.

1Co 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

When it refers to Jesus as being the Rock it is a capital.

I believe He was referring to Peter as the rock that the Church is built upon,for He also stated that Peter shall receive the keys to the kingdom of heaven,but we know also that it is Jesus that has the keys to the kingdom of heaven for it opened it up for people to enter heaven.

Jesus is the Rock who has the keys to heaven,and the keys of hell and death which He conquered.

But I believe He was speaking to Peter that he is the rock that the Church shall be built upon,and also received the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

Which means that Christ is the foundation,chief cornerstone,and head of the Church,but Peter is the first person added to the Church,having been converted first which Jesus said when you are converted strengthen your brothers,and preached the first message to the people concerning the Church.

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

The whole Church is built upon Jesus Christ the chief cornerstone,and Peter was the first person added to the Church,and that is what Jesus meant that Peter is the rock that He shall build His Church concerning people being added to the Church after Christ,which Peter was the first,and then the apostles and prophets,and then people in the order they are saved as they are built upon each other like a building.

So Jesus saying Peter is the rock does no damage for it only means he is the first person added to the Church after Christ,and somebody has to be built upon Christ,and that is Peter who also received the keys to the kingdom of heaven.

But Peter was no Pope,and the Bible never tells of a Pope,for Christ is the head of the Church.

We are all rocks that build the church. But Thee Rock (foundation) is Christ. So the first rocks on the foundation might be the apostles, you have to start somewhere when building up from a foundation. But they are servants of Christ just as we are. We might all be rocks, but Jesus is Thee Rock, not Peter.

 

[Budman]

1. Where in the Bible does it say, that "Everything has to be found in the Bible."

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16)

Thanks to God's written word, frankly, I don't need the Catholic Church for anything.

 

[OneFaith]

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16)

Thanks to God's written word, frankly, I don't need the Catholic Church for anything.

Yes, “thoroughly equipped for all good works.” If we have all that we need, why seek out other equipment that we don’t need?

 

[Johnny_B]

Peter is not the rock, that is why Jesus said you are Peter and on this rock or the revelation that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, that is the rock. Because it is not dependent on man it is dependent on Gof the Father or Him granting you life John 6:65 “And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.” God never fails, but man always fail as we will see in the very next teaching that Jesus teaches His disciples and we will see how Peter reacts to that and it show why he cannot be the rock. The very next thing that Jesus teaches the disciples is that He is going to the cross to die and Peter pulls Jesus aside and rebukes Him and Jesus call Peter a devil, Matthew 16:21-23

“From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.22 And Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him, saying, “Far be it from you, Lord! This shall never happen to you.”23 But he turned and said to Peter, “Get behind me, Satan! You are a hindrance to me. For you are not setting your mind on the things of God, but on the things of man.”

How can the Church be built on a person that Jesus call satan? It's not! So if the RCC wants to say that Peter is the rock or even protestant believe the same thing, they are relying on a man that failed in the very next teaching. We do not even need togo that far with Jesus saying and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it, if Peter is that rock not only did the gates of hel prevail over him in the next teach but Jesus clled him satan the very person hell was created for him and his angels.

The keys to heaven are in the binding and loosing, which with the Jews Rabbis had to do with allowing and not permitting which is more then likely referring to John 20:22-23, Luke 24:45-49 and Acts 10:44-48

John 20:22-23 “And when he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you withhold forgiveness from any, it is withheld.”

Luke 24: 45-49 “Then he opened their minds to understand the Scriptures,46 and said to them, “Thus it is written, that the Christ should suffer and on the third day rise from the dead,47 and that repentance for the forgiveness of sins should be proclaimed in his name to all nations, beginning from Jerusalem.48 You are witnesses of these things.49 And behold, I am sending the promise of my Father upon you. But stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.”

Acts 10:44-48 “While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word.45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles.46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.”

 

[Nehemiah6]

Peter was for Jews, Paul was for Gentiles.

There is no basis for a claim that Peter was over all church (or any bishop of Rome, respectivelly).

If Peter was indeed the first "bishop" of the church of Rome, is it not rather strange that Paul omitted him from the people mentioned in his epistle to the Romans? In any event most of the popes were rascals.

 

[Depleted]

I perfectly understand why some of us wouldn't want to waste an hour watching this video. However, I have taken out the time and watched it, as I have family members in the RCC who believe in all this stuff.

Whenever I need help, I always turn to ChrisianChat, because here I have found people who know what they are talking about.


Let me summarize what Steve Ray is trying to say in this video:
1. Where in the Bible does it say, that "Everything has to be found in the Bible."


2. Jesus changed the feminine noun "Petra" to a masculine noun "Petros" and called Peter the "Petros."


3. As Jesus made Peter the rock, he was pointing out to a huge rock at Caesarea Phillipi, which was 500 feet long x 100 feet high, that was a site of pagan worship.
That was the false rock, whereas, Peter was the true rock.
The pagan world had the false rock, the false church(caesar worship) and the water that flowed from a cave beneath the rock.
Jesus gave us the true rock(Peter), the true church, and the sacraments (which is like that flowing


4. Jesus gave Peter "THE KEY" (singular) not the keys. The key represents "exclusive dominion" that Jesus gave to the RCC.


5. Jesus said, "I will give YOU the keys...."
He did not say, "I will give YOU ALL the keys..."
Therefore only Peter and his successors have the key to the kingdom. The keys are NOT the gospel, but the authority of the RCC to validate the entry of a person into the kingdom of God.


6. When Peter was given the keys, he was not thinking about a democracy such as America. He was thinking about a Monarchy, where there is a Monarch and then there was a Royal Steward. The Royal Steward was the second in command, and carried a large key with which he could open and close the city gates. Peter was this Royal Steward. At the end of time, Peter will hand over the keys back to Jesus.


7. Once the Royal Steward died, his office was continued by another one. The catholic Pope holds a dynastic office which is a continuation of Peter's office. The RCC has a list of popes who have continued Peter's office till date. That is the longest existing office in the world.


8. The Chair of Peter was not something that the RCC has invented. The chair of Moses became the chair of Peter and is the chair of the Pope today. It is a 3500 year old chair. The chair was there even before the cannon of scripture was put together.


9. The Pope is not impeccable. He goes for confession. However, the Pope is infallible in the sense that "the Holy Spirit superintends the mouths of men to create in them infallibility in the right conditions."


10. The RCC is a large ship with all the navigational ability and all the life saving equipment. The Baptist church is a raft that separated from the large ship, and is floating around. This raft needs to return to the ship.

Main problem seems to be he thinks a denomination is his life preserver. Churches don't save. Jesus does. But, if you're out to teach a church saves, you've lost the argument at opening sentence, instead of closing sentence.

If you have family in the RCC still, does that mean you were raised RCC? Not a put down. A real question, because I was and I have the same problem.

I'm not going to argue over church beliefs though. No one was ever saved through such an argument. The actual gospel (we are evil sinners, Jesus saves, repent -- shortened version lol) works though. The thing I have trouble getting my family to believe is they ARE sinners, and Jesus IS the only way. They're too busy thinking they're skirting the hell issue by going to mass on most Sundays.

 

[Depleted]

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." (2 Timothy 3:16)

Thanks to God's written word, frankly, I don't need the Catholic Church for anything.

Well, I can think of two good reasons for a Catholic Church.
1. The buildings are usually dark, quiet and cold, so a good place to duck into on a hot summer day, if you lose your air-conditioner, or if the noise is overwhelming.

2. They always have holy water available by the front door, so if you could use some cold water on your neck when it's hot outside, that's the place to go. (Do NOT drink the water, because they don't change it that often and Catholics like to dip their fingers in it when they come in, which means it's a brew for germs.)

Truthfully, it would be cheaper just to have little sheds along the street with air-conditioning and heat in them, plus a fridge with bottled water, but who is paying for that?

Hey, old disabled woman! I really would like a place to sit littered throughout my city, but politicians aren't listening. (We don't have a single place to sit in the business district of Philadelphia for two old folks to enjoy as we walk a few blocks, and yet the politicians keep swearing we're "disabled friendly." I'd love to know who they think are disabled. lol)

 

[Waggles]

 

[Waggles]

 

[Budman]

In any event most of the popes were rascals.

Boy, that's an understatement!

https://thesmartset.com/article05111001/