The Black Madonna

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
J

joefizz

Guest
#4
Was Mary and Jesus black? Your biblical views please.
As for my biblical view I'm not sure,many have presumed Jesus to be white but that's just a rough estimate I suppose,just like I've wondered about the race of the Israelites if while in Egypt they were Black,white mixed or otherwise,because for one unlike today many people got out in the "actual sun light"(no cars) so I would imagine many people especially men(having shirts off for work possibly)would probably be of "tanned skin" so it's probable to think that Jesus or Mary or both could have been black or at least tanned skin somewhat though I haven't viewed any "scripture" of how they looked physically concerning race.
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
113
#5
Why does the Pope pray to a Black Madonna (Mary) and a Black Child (Jesus)?


 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
338
83
#6
The bible doesn't assign a color, but there's no recorded historical accounts of black Jews in his time, so I'd say no.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#13
We are all descended from Noah and his wife. In India dark skinned Caucasians often have light complected children, and vice versa. It really doesn't make any difference.
 

Ezekiel8

Senior Member
Oct 26, 2017
403
8
0
#14
No, they were not black. The blacks are the Hamites, the whites are the Japhethites, and the Asiatics are the Semites. Israelites are Semites, their original appearance would be Asiatic.

I think the reason you have typically speaking "black Jesus" and "white Jesus" and so forth is just a cultural thing that came later. It is fairly understandable that just psychologically as Christianity spread to the Gentiles, the Gentiles would portray Jesus, Mary, and other biblical figures to look like one of them as they began to embrace and venerate Jesus and in a larger sense the biblical narrative.

The Italians for instance at the Sistine Chapel portray many biblical figures in pretty typical Roman and Greek ideals of beauty though in truth the Romans are Japhethites, specifically sons of Javan. The Ethiopians, whom are Hamites, specifically sons of Cush, and noted as the darkest skinned race, and one of the first Gentile races in Africa to accept Christianity, commonly portray Jesus and other biblical figures as black, like one of them. You could pretty much just go through all the races and you will pretty generally find it common that they will depict biblical figures to look like one them.

I suppose it's just a psychological thing and is understandable that in the course of history as Christianity and the Bible spread that other races would imagine the characters in the Bible to look like themselves. I suppose it's sort of like a process of identifying with the characters found in the Bible to imagine them to be of one's own race.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#15
No, they were not black. The blacks are the Hamites, the whites are the Japhethites, and the Asiatics are the Semites. Israelites are Semites, their original appearance would be Asiatic.

I think the reason you have typically speaking "black Jesus" and "white Jesus" and so forth is just a cultural thing that came later. It is fairly understandable that just psychologically as Christianity spread to the Gentiles, the Gentiles would portray Jesus, Mary, and other biblical figures to look like one of them as they began to embrace and venerate Jesus and in a larger sense the biblical narrative.

The Italians for instance at the Sistine Chapel portray many biblical figures in pretty typical Roman and Greek ideals of beauty though in truth the Romans are Japhethites, specifically sons of Javan. The Ethiopians, whom are Hamites, specifically sons of Cush, and noted as the darkest skinned race, and one of the first Gentile races in Africa to accept Christianity, commonly portray Jesus and other biblical figures as black, like one of them. You could pretty much just go through all the races and you will pretty generally find it common that they will depict biblical figures to look like one them.

I suppose it's just a psychological thing and is understandable that in the course of history as Christianity and the Bible spread that other races would imagine the characters in the Bible to look like themselves. I suppose it's sort of like a process of identifying with the characters found in the Bible to imagine them to be of one's own race.
Most blacks are Hamites. In India there are many dark skinned Caucasians; and in the near east, and in the Pacific islands, there are many dark skinned Shemites. There are dark skinned and fair skinned people among all three races.
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,666
448
83
57
#16
Why does the Pope pray to a Black Madonna (Mary) and a Black Child (Jesus)?


Well if your concerned about the appearance of the icon they are in front of . A lot of painted pieces of art change over time .
Some paints contain metals that will over time become darker . Also silver used on some icons if not cleaned will become black . Note also candles used for devotion will also affect color over time .
Besides all that . Why concern your self with what color of their idol is . They have started off wrong nothing right can come after .
Blessings
Bill
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,347
12,872
113
#17
Why does the Pope pray to a Black Madonna (Mary) and a Black Child (Jesus)?
Why does the Pope do any of the blasphemous things which he does? And why do you concern yourself with the Pope? Pope Francis is A TOTAL FRAUD so if he has a fraudulent black Madonna with a fraudulent black child it is simply more evidence that he should be totally ignored.
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,263
5,618
113
#18
I think he was Semitic in appearance one reason because Isaiah records that he didn't stand out drastically from his Jewish brethren. He was of the tribe of Judah and could trace his lineage right back to the beginning. I think he would have looked quite Jewish. Neither (what we today would call) black or white. Neither African nor Caucasian in appearance. Unless you looked into his eyes and perceived something of the depth of his spirit, he appeared in the flesh as a normal, healthy, adult Jewish man.
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#19
I think he was Semitic in appearance one reason because Isaiah records that he didn't stand out drastically from his Jewish brethren. He was of the tribe of Judah and could trace his lineage right back to the beginning. I think he would have looked quite Jewish. Neither (what we today would call) black or white. Neither African nor Caucasian in appearance. Unless you looked into his eyes and perceived something of the depth of his spirit, he appeared in the flesh as a normal, healthy, adult Jewish man.
I think its good to realize that he was Jewish only after his mother.

Being without a father, the rest of His DNA could be created in various ways. He could very well be white, blond haired blue-eyed. Nothing impossible about that.

Also, many nations of those days were lighter than today. Greeks were blond, now they are mostly dark haired, because they are mixed with Turks etc. Islamic expansions, Turks invanding Europe and other history made many nations "darker" in our days.
 
Last edited:

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#20
Well if your concerned about the appearance of the icon they are in front of . A lot of painted pieces of art change over time .
Some paints contain metals that will over time become darker . Also silver used on some icons if not cleaned will become black . Note also candles used for devotion will also affect color over time .
Besides all that . Why concern your self with what color of their idol is . They have started off wrong nothing right can come after .
Blessings
Bill
Yes, exactly. "Black Madonna" was not created as black, its what time does with colors used for such paintings.