How To Be Un-Saved
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That was kinda my point, the extent of the conversation way outweighs the actual threat.
But I'm curious, IF you believe salvation can be lost/forfeited, what portion of the saved population do you think it will actually happen to?
Just because people say it is possible, doesn't mean they're all rushing towards that exit.
But I'm curious, IF you believe salvation can be lost/forfeited, what portion of the saved population do you think it will actually happen to?
Just because people say it is possible, doesn't mean they're all rushing towards that exit.
I'm not wanting to continue the pro/con arguments. We aren't going to convince anyone here to change sides because no one is open to that.
What I'm asking is, among those who believe it can be lost, how many people do you think will actually ever face that issue?
The point being, even if you think it's possible, it's not really probable.
What I'm asking is, among those who believe it can be lost, how many people do you think will actually ever face that issue?
The point being, even if you think it's possible, it's not really probable.
E
It does not matter, if they believe one can lose salvation, they are not placing their faith in God. They are placing their faith in self.
No one is going to admit they will actually face that issue, to do so would mean to agree that they could mess up.
The issue is who is your faith in. Self (man) or God
This issue is Gods character, His promises. If what God promised can be lost. Then God himself has failed to do what he promised he would do.
My faith is in Christ, Christ can not fail. If GFod can not fail. What he promised will come true, if his promisesd will come true, I have no fear or no doubt of my eternal destination.
if I think that can be lost. Even though I do nto think many will go there. My trust is not in God. Period.
No one is going to admit they will actually face that issue, to do so would mean to agree that they could mess up.
The issue is who is your faith in. Self (man) or God
This issue is Gods character, His promises. If what God promised can be lost. Then God himself has failed to do what he promised he would do.
My faith is in Christ, Christ can not fail. If GFod can not fail. What he promised will come true, if his promisesd will come true, I have no fear or no doubt of my eternal destination.
if I think that can be lost. Even though I do nto think many will go there. My trust is not in God. Period.
R
I've never heard a single soul in any forum say or even allude to serving God in their own power. Not a one. That's impossible to do anyway. Self righteousness is signified by hypocrisy, not signified by being obedient. Obedience is the very sign you are NOT in your own power but in God's.
And the 'judging' you are being convicted by comes from it pointed out that so many Christians talk about the power of God sanctifying the believer (not you sanctifying yourself) but who don't have that sanctifying happening in their own life. These same people then accuse the person in whom it IS happening in as being self righteous. The defensiveness about the subject reveals much about a person.
In this forum instead of 'rejoicing with those who rejoice' (Romans 12:15) you get beat up by Christians for even suggesting that you might be entering into being the fourth type of soil that Jesus spoke about. For some reason, in the church today the fourth type of soil is purely theoretical and you are a blind, self righteous hypocrite working to earn your salvation for even thinking you might be there or are getting there through the sanctifying work of God in you. Yet these same people will boast so freely about God's power in sanctification.
And the 'judging' you are being convicted by comes from it pointed out that so many Christians talk about the power of God sanctifying the believer (not you sanctifying yourself) but who don't have that sanctifying happening in their own life. These same people then accuse the person in whom it IS happening in as being self righteous. The defensiveness about the subject reveals much about a person.
In this forum instead of 'rejoicing with those who rejoice' (Romans 12:15) you get beat up by Christians for even suggesting that you might be entering into being the fourth type of soil that Jesus spoke about. For some reason, in the church today the fourth type of soil is purely theoretical and you are a blind, self righteous hypocrite working to earn your salvation for even thinking you might be there or are getting there through the sanctifying work of God in you. Yet these same people will boast so freely about God's power in sanctification.
E
Keep thinking you save yourself by an action you think you must perform
I will believe what Christ said to. The moment I believe in him, I will never again thirst the moment I believe in him, I will never again hunger, I have thus stopped looking for food with perishes, I have instead partook of the food which ENDURED forever.
The context of John 6 is not looking for food which perishes, but for food which one can eat and not die. If I eat that food. And for any reason die,. God is a liar.
Again, if the food and water I ate and drank died because I stopped believeing, It did not endure forever. Jesus lied. And everything he said in tha passage is thus not believable.
E
By One sactifice, he has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
by one sacrifice God perfected forever. Perfect tense, active voice. This is a completed action. It will never stop, it will never end, it will (as the author said( last without end, or forever.
Being sanctified (present tense, passive voice) whoever has been perfected forever is in the process of being sanctified, It is not an active thing, it is a passive thing, because those who whome it applies are having this done to them by God (it is not man doing the work, it is God.
Those who claim it can be lost. Reject the=is verse. They can deny it till they are blue int he face, it does not change the fact.
1. It denys they are perfected forever
2. It denies the fact that once a person is saved they are in the process of being sanctified, and this action performed by God will continue forever. Why? Because they HAVE ALREADY BEEN (PERFECT TENSE) Perfected forever.
A person can noty start in the sanctification process. Because they have been perfected forever, and then lose it, if that was possible. Then we could not be told we have been perfected forever.
by one sacrifice God perfected forever. Perfect tense, active voice. This is a completed action. It will never stop, it will never end, it will (as the author said( last without end, or forever.
Being sanctified (present tense, passive voice) whoever has been perfected forever is in the process of being sanctified, It is not an active thing, it is a passive thing, because those who whome it applies are having this done to them by God (it is not man doing the work, it is God.
Those who claim it can be lost. Reject the=is verse. They can deny it till they are blue int he face, it does not change the fact.
1. It denys they are perfected forever
2. It denies the fact that once a person is saved they are in the process of being sanctified, and this action performed by God will continue forever. Why? Because they HAVE ALREADY BEEN (PERFECT TENSE) Perfected forever.
A person can noty start in the sanctification process. Because they have been perfected forever, and then lose it, if that was possible. Then we could not be told we have been perfected forever.
This does not reflect the real promise of Christ's History being applied to a real person at all. One reality is first being Christ on the Cross before we even showed up, but to make it real to us based on that premise, we must have His finishing work being applied; even as it is applied on that foundation of grace always.... This is reality. I am not a pretend Christian in theory alone, I am a real Christian in Christ relationally.
The nature of God is such that when God hates sin God hates sin continuously . When God loves a mans soul God loves a mans soul continuously. When God saves a soul God saves that soul continuously.
Man hates for but a moment. Man loves for but a moment. If man saves himself it is but for a moment. The temporal nature of man compared to the eternal nature to God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Man hates for but a moment. Man loves for but a moment. If man saves himself it is but for a moment. The temporal nature of man compared to the eternal nature to God.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
if you are a real christian, Then all that God has promise to you,. Even the promise that you have been perfected forever. And are in the process of being sanctified applies to you
It means you can never be lost. If you can be lost. Or think you can be lost. Either God lied. Or you have never had his promises applied to you. There is no other option
It means you can never be lost. If you can be lost. Or think you can be lost. Either God lied. Or you have never had his promises applied to you. There is no other option
E
Amen, and that is my point, that if man can be lost. Then he is saving himself, Because a man saved by God can never be lost. As the psalmist said (139) where can I go that I may hide, where ever I go. You are there. God has searched me, and he has known me, I can no0t fool God into thinking I have faith, and he is not going to save a person knowing they will later become an antichrist. We can not hide from God whoeer we are, he knows everythign about us.
The fact that you could even consider God lying is astounding to me. If one KNOWS the Father one could not say such a thing. God's will is for us to know Him and His will - not just receive His blessings; and when we do know Him we are transformed, not just informed! (see: 1 John 4:20).
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I have stated facts only. I am not even considering accusations. I want to illustrate the truth of His Word. And to be honest, to show you love in doing so. A lie is not just what one says that is intentionally untrue....it is what one also says believing that it is true yet it is not!
I love to listen well.
I love to listen well.
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E
you stated I called God a liar. Or I considered there was a possibility God was a liar’
those are not FACTS
The facts are I said whoever thinks salvation or all the things God has given us can be lost have made him a liar. Since I do not do either, or believe either to be true, I have not considered God to be a liar. Period.
Do not say you State facts, when what you stated have no basis of fact at all.