How To Be Un-Saved

[Katy-follower]

I didn't even think of the absurdity of trying to explain the "good news" of being able to lose your salvation to someone.

I suppose you should rather try to convince them to NOT get saved too early in life if they can later on lose that salvation. It would be better to wait until you were already closer to leaving.


The REAL Good News is much better than this. The Real Good News says that once a person is a sheep of the Lord NO ONE can remove them from His Hand. That means once you have faith in Christ He is Really serious about that.


In the humanistic view anything is possible. We are responsible for getting saved. We are responsible for staying saved. We have to persevere. We have to produce fruit. We have to do all the extra credit required to be extra holy and extra saved.

But that view is changed when we are Saved by the Lord Jesus Christ. The vail comes off and when we study the bible and pray we know by our own experience that it is by the Lord that we are blessed. We don't have the power to save ourselves. We don't have the power to keep ourselves saved. We find out that we must rely on Christ for all of our spiritual blessings.

It would be like offering them extra chains to add to their already existing ones, rather than the true freedom that comes through Christ... the author and finisher of our faith.

As in Galatians, there were non believers trying to be justified by the flesh, and believers who were trying to be sanctified by the flesh. Nothing changes, as we see this today also, how some believers have become entangled again in the bondage they were set free from. I think the result is they will not grow, and of course they will have no joy either, since they're always fretting, and unable to truly rest in Christ. How can one share the gospel if they themselves are fretting?

There are so many scriptures offering assurance to believers, so God knew there would be believers that would end up doubting their security, as a result of listening to teachers. The lost definitely have no assurance though, because they're not saved.

Some depend on their own understanding, especially when they favor their view over the scriptures. And because scripture is flawless, when you're in error another scripture will come up to correct said error, but usually what happens is the person twists that correction, so then another comes up to correct them, and they twist again. God does have a sense of humor though... the bible is put together in such a way that He will allow a person to get tangled up in their own messy web if this is what they choose. One could twist the scriptures enough to where the scriptures sadly become like a fairytale.

 

[Katy-follower]

The Real Good News says that once a person is a sheep of the Lord NO ONE can remove them from His Hand. That means once you have faith in Christ He is Really serious about that.

It's true that He never lets us go. Whenever I drift away I just keep coming back now.

When I look back on my years of backsliding I see He never actually left me at all, even though I didn't know it at the time. He let me go through some awful things, which I later struggled to understand why, and actually left my home Country to get away from some toxic situations, but it turned out to be God pushing me in that direction and working things out for me, but unknown to me at the time. Several more examples, which I'll probably mention at some point.

Backsliding is no easy life for a believer. You will suffer when you try to do things your own way, and then deal with the consequences later, of things you've done, and you need God's help to clean up those messes. Not to mention, a friend died years ago and I was not in that position to witness to her, because I was backsliding, so this is one of my regrets. But believers can expect to be chastised. More than once He called me back to Him and they weren't pleasant experiences for me either.

 

[Katy-follower]

If once saved always saved is such a meaningless argument then why do so many "wise" still try to argue against it?

You don't HAVE to be a new creation. You ARE a new creation in Christ. Its just a fact in Salvation. You can't start out as a new creation and then go back to being not a new creation just because you decided to.

This really is not complicated. Its explained by scripture and common sense. But until you come to Christ and are saved then you won't really understand either.

It's difficult to accept anything that goes against God's promises. Finite man will fail to keep promises, but God is not like man that He should lie (Numbers 23:19).

Like a caterpillar that becomes a butterfly... a new creation. How does it then go back to what it was before? And you could even say that once it has that freedom to fly, why would it even want to go back to crawling on the ground. Isn't it interesting how God reveals much of His spiritual truths through nature

 

[FlSnookman7]

It's difficult to accept anything that goes against God's promises. Finite man will fail to keep promises, but God is not like man that He should lie (Numbers 23:19).

Like a caterpillar that becomes a butterfly... a new creation. How does it then go back to what it was before? And you could even say that once it has that freedom to fly, why would it even want to go back to crawling on the ground. Isn't it interesting how God reveals much of His spiritual truths through nature

Even if the butterfly landed and was killed on the ground, it would still die a butterfly...

 

[hillbilly]

The Word does tell us many will fall away. Which of course means to apoatasize. Hebrews 5 and 10 talks about this s you are no doubt aware of. This would imply they had faith and then rejected it.

 

[RickyZ]

The Word does tell us many will fall away. Which of course means to apoatasize. Hebrews 5 and 10 talks about this s you are no doubt aware of. This would imply they had faith and then rejected it.

Actually, for the convenience of the OSAS crowd, those verses have been removed from the MRV!

 

[Katy-follower]

The Word does tell us many will fall away. Which of course means to apoatasize. This would imply they had faith and then rejected it.

God's definition of an apostate is different to ours.

The apostates are mentioned in Jude as "not having the Spirit" (V19), so they're not saved. And that verse concludes the chapter, which speaks in great detail about them........ ungodly men, those who don't believe, gone in the way of Cain, and also "clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever"

At the end of the chapter it concludes with "But you, beloved..." which also shows a distinction between believers and these apostates. The chapter's too long to post here, so these are just some verses I pulled out (in context though).


Also...

1 John 2:18-21: "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. But you (believers) have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

 

[preacher4truth]

God's definition of an apostate is different to ours.

The apostates are mentioned in Jude as "not having the Spirit" (V19), so they're not saved. And that verse concludes the chapter, which speaks in great detail about them........ ungodly men, those who don't believe, gone in the way of Cain, and also "clouds without water, carried about by the winds; late autumn trees without fruit, twice dead, pulled up by the roots; raging waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever"

At the end of the chapter it concludes with "But you, beloved..." which also shows a distinction between believers and these apostates. The chapter's too long to post here, so these are just some verses I pulled out (in context though).


Also...

1 John 2:18-21: "Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us. But you (believers) have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

You nailed it young lady. God bless.

 

[Katy-follower]

You nailed it young lady. God bless.

Truth is, this is something I struggled a bit with years back. I've always believed we're eternally secure, but whenever someone would mention that word "apostate" it was a bit of a road block. I struggled to get past that word and the (world's) definition of it. To me it seemed to go against the promises of God, to suggest that true believers depart from the faith and lose their salvation.

I had read that scripture "they went out from among us" and while I understood it, I still didn't have the confirmation I needed because I was stuck focusing on how it conflicted with the definition given for an apostate.

So I searched the scriptures and pondered over things throughout the day. I really should've prayed on it. I believe God was wanting me to ask Him directly to reveal the truth to me, even though He knew every thought in my head. He then pointed me to Jude, which had all the answers I was looking for! Wow!

The bits that jumped out at me specifically were V19 "not having the Spirit" (there it is ) and also the reference to Cain as an example of an apostate of old, which then led to me reading more about Cain and his works of self, where he tried to get to God on his own terms, and rejected the blood of the lamb (shadow here of Jesus, the lamb of God). And as is expected, the earlier scripture tied together perfectly with this also, with its mention of little antichrists (children of the devil, since they're not in God's family).

So all the dots connected for me

 

[Katy-follower]

Truth is, this is something I struggled a bit with years back. I've always believed we're eternally secure, but whenever someone would mention that word "apostate" it was a bit of a road block. I struggled to get past that word and the (world's) definition of it. To me it seemed to go against the promises of God, to suggest that true believers depart from the faith and lose their salvation.

I had read that scripture "they went out from among us" and while I understood it, I still didn't have the confirmation I needed because I was stuck focusing on how it conflicted with the definition given for an apostate.

So I searched the scriptures and pondered over things throughout the day. I really should've prayed on it. I believe God was wanting me to ask Him directly to reveal the truth to me, even though He knew every thought in my head. He then pointed me to Jude, which had all the answers I was looking for! Wow!

The bits that jumped out at me specifically were V19 "not having the Spirit" (there it is ) and also the reference to Cain as an example of an apostate of old, which then led to me reading more about Cain and his works of self, where he tried to get to God on his own terms, and rejected the blood of the lamb (shadow here of Jesus, the lamb of God). And as is expected, the earlier scripture tied together perfectly with this also, with its mention of little antichrists (children of the devil, since they're not in God's family).

So all the dots connected for me

Another point.... Abel & Cain are an early example of a believer versus non believer. We continually see the two opposing sides mentioned throughout the scriptures... wheat & tares, sheep & goats, narrow & broad road, child of God vs child of the devil, etc...

 

[Budman]

My sister was a Christian a few years back. She left her faith because of ex's betrayal of marriage. In this case, it is with legitimate reason for abandoning her faith. I am still praying for her to return back to God. If she doesn't want God anymore, does it mean God will wipe away her eternal citizenship?

If she is truly born again, she cannot lose her salvation for any reason. It's a gift, that once given, cannot be taken away or returned. It's based on the finished work of Jesus, and not on us in any way. We are secure because He remains faithful even when we are faithless.

 

[Gabriel2020]

You are so wrong about that. If you reject Jesus Christ after recieving the Holy Ghost, the spirit will depart from you. I have seen and heard people curse God after their lives fell into trials and tribulations. Just don't know if they had the Holy Ghost or not,but if they did, they don't get a second chance.

 

[Gabriel2020]

Yes, but you have never rejected him. He always go and find his lost sheep that warnders away, but still love him.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

_________

we are not of them

________
1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

_______

they were not of us


to have a faith that you can just choose

"oh i dont believe"

is not faith


when youre born again

you know your Father

and He knows you

 

[Gabriel2020]

ISAIAH; 1; 18; Come now, and let us reason together, saith the Lord; though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow, though they be red like crimson,they shall be as wool.19; If ye be WILLING AND OBEDIENT,ye shall eat the good of the land. 20; But if ye refuse and rebel,ye shall be devoured with the sword; for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken.

 

[Gabriel2020]

HEBREWS;6 ; 4-6; For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,and have tasted of the heavenly gift,and were partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5; And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6; If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance,seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame...........................To fall away here mean rejecting him after knowing him. Having tasted the heavenly gift is having the Holy Ghost. This is the manner that Satan 's fall came about. He turned against God and hated him after having an abundance of blessings.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

ok?

a couple out of context verses does not prove a born again believer with a genuine faith can stop believing....

hebrews 6 is often mis-used by people... same with hebrews 10


went over a bunch here

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...a-they-shall-fall-away.html?highlight=hebrews


hope this helps you

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are so wrong about that. If you reject Jesus Christ after recieving the Holy Ghost, the spirit will depart from you. I have seen and heard people curse God after their lives fell into trials and tribulations. Just don't know if they had the Holy Ghost or not,but if they did, they don't get a second chance.

This is getting ridiculous

John said if you reject Jesus Christ after you claimed to be saved, You have never been saved to begin with.

What is with you people and rejecting the word of God? Are you going to trust your pastor? or the apostle John?

This is getting ridiculous that people are so bent on their legalism, they refuse to look at what the men who walked with Jesus said!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes, but you have never rejected him. He always go and find his lost sheep that warnders away, but still love him.

lol.. Seriously??

It says he goes and gets his lost sheep/ Those who are NOT HIS SHEEP will not follow.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hebrews 10:39
But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

_________

we are not of them

________
1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

_______

they were not of us


to have a faith that you can just choose

"oh i dont believe"

is not faith


when youre born again

you know your Father

and He knows you

what is it that they can not see? It is amazing they they are too proud to give up their self, and place it ALL on jesus feet.