Unforgivable Sin

[Abing]

I don't wanna debate, just wanna ask tho

Mark 3:22-30 states,
"And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, 'He has Beelzebub,' and, 'By the ruler of the demons He casts out demons.' …'Assuredly, I [Jesus] say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation;' because they said, 'He has an unclean spirit'"

In Matthew 12:31-32, Jesus says to the Pharisees,
"Therefore I say to you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven men. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come"

Questions:

Is it possible for someone after being saved to never sin anymore? If not, then, is it possible for a Christian (someone who was saved and chose to turn away from God [Freewill]) to blaspheme against the Holy Spirit? If so, then, if that Christian turns to God again, is he still gonna be forgiven (Coz i really don't think so)? or is he going to be eternally condemned? Or is He going to heaven without being fogiven?

I believe that we were saved by faith and not by works. But, I also believe in freewill, that it is possible for us to commit a sin, even the unforgivable sin.

PS: This might be an immature question to some of our gentlemen here, but pardon me please. Everyone is trying to learn. And another thing, if you wanna insult me or anyone else who replies here, just do it through PM and don't show the world that you're insulting your own brother.

 

[Sinnner]

Yes, what you have posted is just more proff that we must be careful to not lose our salvation.

 

[phil36]

Hi abing, I'll try and give a quick answer (I am at work).

The answer to your first question: No, as we are not perfect, we will be but not yet.
Question numero 2: my own personal belief is that once saved always saved, we will have times of wandering in the wilderness but if you were truly saved God will bring you back kicking and screaming lol, I believe in free will in the fact that we can make real daily choices, choosing what to wear, how much pocket money our kids get etc, but not spiritually anyhow this is discussed in another post. sorry for wandering.

As for the unforgivable sin.. what exactly is it, what is ment? Take the whole passage in context and i hope you will see that Jesus is talking to those or about those who attribute the work of the Holy spirit (God) to Satan, as this is what preceded Jesus' statement or else why would he have said it?

I really can't see someone who is truly regenerate (born again) being able to do this, as the spirit abides in them and they in Christ (vice versa) as for a christian who has back slidden (or in the wildernes for a season) I can come to believe it either as they are still saved they have been born again, God will bring them back he will restore, and if this is not the case, they never where truly born again.

Anyhow Abing, it was a brilliant group of questions i hope i have helped in even just a small way.

take care

phil

 

[suaso]

Well, first I will tell you what I have come to understand as the unforgivable sin. When we sin, we must ask for forgiveness. When we ask for forgiveness, we are trusting that the power and grace of God through the Holy Spirit is mightier than our sinfulness and that there is no sin which we can commit that God can not forgive. To believe that there is a sin so great that God can not forgive it is a blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, as it denies the power of God over sin. Also, since one could deny this power of God over sin by assuming his or her sin or sins are too egregious to be forgiven, then this person probably will not ask to be forgiven. Since they do not ask to be forgiven, how can they receive forgiveness if we receive forgiveness by asking for it? Since one would not ask for forgiveness, then this sin of doubting the power of God over sin is therefore truly unforgivable - not because God can not forgive it - but because the sinner refuses to allow God to forgive them.

As for salvation, I believe that because we are not robots with no free will, that we can choose to do sinful things despite our faith in Christ. Believing in Christ and accepting the Christian message as truth does not take away one's ability to commit a sin. Christians are every bit as capable of lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, etc as anyone else. Some one argue that those who do these things are not actually Christians. I disagree with that. I say they are Christians, only they are Christians who are not very good at being Christians. Faith in Christ does save the believer, but living the faith will lead to salvation. Salvation, I believe, can be lost through sin after accepting on faith the truth of Christ. It can also be regained through repentance and the asking of forgiveness.

I am reminded of this passage: "Now they upon the rock are they who when they hear, receive the word with joy: but these have no roots; who believe for a while, but in time of temptation fall away" (Luke 8:13). It is from the parable of the seed-sewer. It describes those Christians who believe in Christ, being saved by faith, but fall into sin.

And this too: "… it is impossible to restore again to repentance those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they then commit apostasy, since they crucify the Son of God on their own account and hold him up to contempt. (Heb 6:4-6)"

And also: "Not everyone who says to me, "Lord, Lord" shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but only those who do the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)" So, sin are certainly against the will of the Father, and if one can sin after believing in Christ, this would suggest that salvation can be lost.

All I can say is Thank God For His Mercy, Compassion, Patience, and Forgiveness!

 

[roaringkitten]

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew
7:21

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the
last day." John 6:40

"Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." Matthew 12:31

"And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:" John 16:8

John 16:8 speaks of the Holy Spirit....The unpardonable sin is the sin of UNBELIEF......The Holy Spirit can convict a sinner, but the sinner can REJECT Jesus Christ.........

"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. " 1 John 2:22-23

Believing in your own good works is a sure pathway to the lake of fire....(see thread on "There is ONLY one saving gospel" as I completely explain this, and also see the thread on "Biblical Repentance")

 

[phil36]

Thanks for your insights suaso, However your first part (in my humble view) does not answer the scripture in question? The religious leaders are accusing Jesus (God) as being the devil, they are saying his works are of the devil, he has an unclean spirit - this is the unforgivable sin! They are attributing evil to God, they are really saying God is the devil/satan etc. If there is no unforgivable sin why would Jesus say it? and you have to remember the context of the conversation.

As to the debate of free will/eletction/predestination there are other threads for that already.

The parable (seed -sower) is good allegory, are you saying that that everyone recieved then rejected, I'm not sure suaso, if im wrong please correct me. I can only see one recieving and growing strong. It reminds me of when a new president gets elected or Prime minister, the public receive their tidings with great joy, it never lasts long though. anyhow im rambling again lol.

1:3 Blessed be 8 the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By his great mercy he gave us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, 1:4 that is, 9 into 10 an inheritance imperishable, undefiled, and unfading. It is reserved in heaven for you, 1:5 who by God’s power are protected through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. 1:6 This brings you great joy, 11 although you may have to suffer 12 for a short time in various trials. 1:7 Such trials show the proven character of your faith, 13 which is much more valuable than gold – gold that is tested by fire, even though it is passing away 14 – and will bring praise 15 and glory and honor when Jesus Christ is revealed. (1 Peter)

Something maybe to ponder on is - if we can lose our salvation, then we live in 'fear' of losing our salvation. and not great joy.

God bless

Phil

 

[phil36]

Hello again,

Unbelief is an attribute we all have had, as paul states 'objects of wrath' unbelief can be forgiven, i once was an unbeliever and rejected Christ(only 5 years ago) for the first 30/31 years of my life, now I am saved and forgiven by the grace of God.

The unforgivable sin is very specific to these verses abing wrote about. The Scribes basically accused Jesus (Trinity) of being the devil and that he (Trinity) had an unclean spirit, Jesus immediately answers them back , Jesus even says Blasphames will be forgiven. but not that, that atributes Gods work with doing the work of the devil.

Humbly

Phil

 

[christiancanadian]

Hello again,

Unbelief is an attribute we all have had, as paul states 'objects of wrath' unbelief can be forgiven, i once was an unbeliever and rejected Christ(only 5 years ago) for the first 30/31 years of my life, now I am saved and forgiven by the grace of God.

The unforgivable sin is very specific to these verses abing wrote about. The Scribes basically accused Jesus (Trinity) of being the devil and that he (Trinity) had an unclean spirit, Jesus immediately answers them back , Jesus even says Blasphames will be forgiven. but not that, that atributes Gods work with doing the work of the devil.

Humbly

Phil

I was worried about the unforgiveable sin when I was saved last year. I'm no prophet, but I did have a very comforting dream that the unforgiveable sin CANNOT be committed by a true believer. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR A TRUE BELIEVER TO COMMIT THE UNFORGIVEABLE SIN. It just can't be done. Therefore, basically, the unforgiveable sin is unbelief-as in never believing in Christ at all-I'm not talking about doubting here-I'm talking about those WHO NEVER HAVE BELIEVED AND NEVER WILL.

 

[Baptistrw]

I was worried about the unforgiveable sin when I was saved last year. I'm no prophet, but I did have a very comforting dream that the unforgiveable sin CANNOT be committed by a true believer. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR A TRUE BELIEVER TO COMMIT THE UNFORGIVEABLE SIN. It just can't be done. Therefore, basically, the unforgiveable sin is unbelief-as in never believing in Christ at all-I'm not talking about doubting here-I'm talking about those WHO NEVER HAVE BELIEVED AND NEVER WILL.

I totally agree. Jesus Christ isn't physically here on earth so the unpardonable sin cannot be committed.

 

[suaso]

"And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day." (John 6:40)

I for one always see it like this: If I study hard, I may pass my test: and my teacher will give me a good grade. This is not quite the same as: "If I study hard, I will pass my test: and my teacher will give me a good grade." In both of these cases, the desired affect is that my teacher will give me a good grade, but this good grade is conditional. I have to pass my test to get the good grade, and to pass my test, I must study hard. Still, after I study hard, I am not garunteed to pass a test. I may pass the test after studying hard, the possibility is open to me, I am able in theory to pass the test because of my dillegence in study...but I am not garunteed that I will pass my test because of my studying. I am simply given the theoretical possibility that I may, that I might.

In turn, he who believes in Christ may have everlasting life. The possibility of evelasting life is open to them because of belief, but it is not 100% garunteed that simply believing that Christ is the Son of God is going to get the job done in the end...there has to be a little more effort involved. I think it is safe to say that no one in hell doubts that Christ is the Son of God. One can believe something and choose to live against it. I believe in the laws of gravity, but this does not prevent me from the ability to jump off of a cliff.

 

[BLC]

Why do some not understand what is taught concerning the body of Christ, with Jesus Christ as head? There is one body but many members that make up that one body and Jesus Christ is the head of the body. We, who believe, are the members that make up that one body on the earth. We are members one of another that make up His body, flesh and bones, right here on planet earth (Eph 5:30). We are in Christ' stead (2Cor 5:20). Jesus said that you (all disciples that make up His body) will do greater works then I have done (John 14:12). We have been ordained and created unto good works (Eph 2:10), the work of the ministry, which includes not just the office holders in the church, but every believer and member of Christ's body.

Christ is building His church, the body of Christ. That church and body represents the household of God (Eph 2:19) and has a work to do on the earth. As they perform that work that God has ordained and called them to do, the gates of hell will try to prevail against it, as it did when Christ was here (Mt 16:18). In (Mt 10:25) Jesus says something very interesting; 'It is enough for the disciple that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebub,how much more shall they call them of his household?' If the work of God that Christ did when He was here was attributed as a work of the devil by the religious crowd, how much more will this same crowd attribute the work of the master's house, the church and body of Christ, as a work of Beelzebub? If we will do greater works then Christ did, then we shall be called more than Beelzebub.

Don't take this personal but the scriptures teach, 'Woe to you when all men speak well of you, for so did they the false prophets … but rejoice and be exceedingly glad when they speak all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake' (Luke 6:26, Mt 5:11,12). Jesus Christ was crucified for the work that He did and many of the disciples were martyred. What will happen to those, in God's household, that do the work of God in the days that we live in? Do you know any Spirit-filled believers that are continually being called all manner of evil because of the work that they do or have done in and through Christ? Jesus Christ was considered to be evil because He healed people on the Sabbath and forgave men their sins. They accused Him because he was gracious and did not condemn or judge others. They wanted Him to stone the adulterous women, but He would not. He was also accused of being a sinner because He was a friend and hung around publicans and sinners (Mt 11:19). Do you know anyone that condemns and judges other believers because of the company they keep?

If someone wants to consider the work that Christ's body, the church, is doing to be evil in any manner and attack and discredit that work in any way, have they committed the unforgivable sin against the Holy Spirit? Is it not the Holy Spirit that works in the members of Christ's body to will and to do God's good pleasure (Phil 2:13, Eph 1:5,9)? Do I, as a believer, want to even come close to calling a work of God something other than what it is and has been ordained of God? Selah

 

[Abing]

Hi abing, I'll try and give a quick answer (I am at work).

The answer to your first question: No, as we are not perfect, we will be but not yet.
Question numero 2: my own personal belief is that once saved always saved, we will have times of wandering in the wilderness but if you were truly saved God will bring you back kicking and screaming lol, I believe in free will in the fact that we can make real daily choices, choosing what to wear, how much pocket money our kids get etc, but not spiritually anyhow this is discussed in another post. sorry for wandering.

Hello Phil, thanks for replying and sharing what you've learned. If I understood you correctly, did you mean, after getting saved you lose your free will spiritually? Actually, if that's what you mean, hey! You have a point and I yeah somewhat agree with you. After getting saved and giving our lives to Jesus (surrendering it fully to the Lord and having Him take over), He will let you do His will and His plans so whatever you do, He will take you back to the right path. Although in that case, it's not gonna be free will, but who (among all true believers) would still want free will? When they know that the Creator already has His (perfect) plans for them? Hmm, I was wondering though (this just came to mind while I was reading this thread), if there's not gonna be free will (Spiritually), then there's not gonna be a sin (spiritually)? What are spiritual sins? Coz I don't have any idea (Or if I was right, the unforgivable sin is one). Or are there any other spiritual sins? Spiritual sins that we will never commit after getting saved? So, correct me if I'm wrong, after getting saved, we still aren't perfect, but there are sins that we will never commit anymore?

I was worried about the unforgiveable sin when I was saved last year. I'm no prophet, but I did have a very comforting dream that the unforgiveable sin CANNOT be committed by a true believer. IT'S IMPOSSIBLE FOR A TRUE BELIEVER TO COMMIT THE UNFORGIVEABLE SIN. It just can't be done. Therefore, basically, the unforgiveable sin is unbelief-as in never believing in Christ at all-I'm not talking about doubting here-I'm talking about those WHO NEVER HAVE BELIEVED AND NEVER WILL.

Another thing I wanna ask though, since you put that up, ChristianCanadian (I'm not debating or contradicting anyone). If it's impossible for a believer to commit that sin, then how about an unbeliever? And if that happens, he (unbeliever) doesn't have a chance to be saved, does he? Cause he commited something unforgivable?

WHO NEVER HAVE BELIEVED AND NEVER WILL - If I got your point, did you mean there are people who will never get saved? Do you believe in free will?

I totally agree. Jesus Christ isn't physically here on earth so the unpardonable sin cannot be committed.

Hey baptist, I was just wondering. Do you mean the unforgivable sin will never be commited anymore? Since Jesus is not physically here? You mean everyone (believer or unbeliever) has already been 'saved' from the unforgivable sin? If that's what you meant, do you have any support for that?

 

[markhelp]

I can assure you that if you are a born again Christian, you absolutely cannot commit "the unforgivable sin"....but you will still screw up and sin [1 John 1]
I can also assure you that anyone who has comitted this unforgivable sin would never bring it up in conversation.
It's "unforgivable" because it is irreversible.
Cain was the first man to commit the "unforgivable sin." [No, I'm not talking about murder, murder is not the unforgivable sin.]
This is a hard topic for alot of people and I will be glad to shed some light for you in the next few days as I can get time to be near a computer.

Talk to you soon
God bless
Jesus Christ was tempted in all things..........he too was tempted to commit the "unforgivable sin."

 

[Baptistrw]

Hey baptist, I was just wondering. Do you mean the unforgivable sin will never be commited anymore? Since Jesus is not physically here? You mean everyone (believer or unbeliever) has already been 'saved' from the unforgivable sin? If that's what you meant, do you have any support for that?

It is impossible for that sin to be committed today. Christ is not bodily performing miracles.

blasphemy against the Spirit. Technically, according to the scribes, blasphemy involved direct and explicit abuse of the divine name. Jesus here teaches that it also may be the reviling of God by attributing the Spirit's work to Satan. The special circumstances involved in this blasphemy cannot be duplicated today; therefore, this sin cannot now be committed. Jesus exhorted the Pharisees to turn and be justified (Matthew 12:33, 37).—Ryrie Study Notes

 

[roaringkitten]

Faith in Christ does save the believer, but living the faith will lead to salvation. Salvation, I believe, can be lost through sin after accepting on faith the truth of Christ. It can also be regained through repentance and the asking of forgiveness.

suaso, we OBTAIN eternal life the moment we trust Jesus as our Savior because we admit we cannot save ourselves from our sins....

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:28

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise." Ephesians 1:13

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24

Salvation in a believer is secure. Because Jesus COMPLETELY saves. I think you believe in a works gospel based upon our testimony. The way the catholic church teaches salvation is heresy. It is either all by works or all grace! It isn't partly by grace and partly works! The Word says it is ALL grace:

“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But IF IT BE OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO MORE GRACE: otherwise work is no more work.” Romans 11:6

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9

 

[MahogonySnail]

As long as the Spirit is on earth, the Spirit can be blasphemed.

 

[christiancanadian]

The concept of "blasphemy against the Spirit" is mentioned in Mark 3:22-30 and in Matthew 12:22-32. The term blasphemy may be generally defined as "defiant irreverence." We would apply the term to such sins as cursing God, or willfully degrading things relating to God. It is also attributing some evil to God, or denying Him some good that we should attribute to Him. This case of blasphemy, however, is a specific one, called "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" in Matthew 12:31. In Matthew 12:31-32, the Pharisees, having witnessed irrefutable proof that Jesus was working miracles in the power of the Holy Spirit, claimed instead that the Lord was possessed by the demon "Beelzebub" (Matthew 12:24). Now notice that in Mark 3:30 Jesus is very specific about what exactly they did to commit "the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit."
referenced from gotquestions.org

 

[christiancanadian]

This blasphemy has to do with someone accusing Jesus Christ of being demon-possessed instead of Spirit-filled. There are other ways to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, but this was the unpardonable blasphemy. As a result, this particular blasphemy against the Holy Spirit cannot be duplicated today. Jesus Christ is not on earth. but seated at the right Hand of God. No one can witness Jesus Christ performing a miracle and then attribute that power to Satan instead of the Spirit, except in the sense of attributing the miracle of a redeemed person’s changed life to Satan’s power rather than to the effects of the indwelling Holy Spirit.
referenced from gotquestions.org

 

[christiancanadian]

The blasphemy of the Spirit today, which is the same as the unpardonable sin, is the state of continued unbelief. There is no pardon for a person who dies in unbelief. Continual rejection of the Holy Spirit’s promptings to trust in Jesus Christ is the unpardonable blasphemy against Him. Remember what is stated in John 3:16, "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life." Further on in the same chapter is the verse “Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him” (John 3:36).The only condition wherein someone would have no forgiveness is if he is not among the "whoever believes in Him" for it is he who “rejects the Son.”
referenced from gotquestions.org

 

[christiancanadian]

Faith in Christ does save the believer, but living the faith will lead to salvation. Salvation, I believe, can be lost through sin after accepting on faith the truth of Christ. It can also be regained through repentance and the asking of forgiveness.

suaso, we OBTAIN eternal life the moment we trust Jesus as our Savior because we admit we cannot save ourselves from our sins....

"And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:28

"In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise." Ephesians 1:13

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life." John 5:24

Salvation in a believer is secure. Because Jesus COMPLETELY saves. I think you believe in a works gospel based upon our testimony. The way the catholic church teaches salvation is heresy. It is either all by works or all grace! It isn't partly by grace and partly works! The Word says it is ALL grace:

“And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But IF IT BE OF WORKS, THEN IT IS NO MORE GRACE: otherwise work is no more work.” Romans 11:6

“For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.” Ephesians 2:8-9

I hope you don't mind Roaring, but I'd like to add also that Jesus died for ALL of our sins 2000 years ago. Were we sinners then? NO! We were not born yet-and we are BORN INTO SIN. Therefore, JESUS DIED ONCE FOR ALL OF OUR FUTURE SINS! At the time Jesus died, ALL of our sins were future.

There are 2 scenarios if one continues to sin after being saved because Paul describes that we will show the signs of fruit:

1. The person was a false convert. They may have even been Baptised! They may even go to church often! But most likely, it was for outward "appearances" and they never truly believed. Typically, as mentioned in the Bible, these people eventually fall away.

2. The person IS saved! Therefore, by continuing in their sinful ways, even though they believe and know it's wrong, their rewards at Judgement (the judgement for believers!), will be burned up-BUT THEY THEMSELVES WILL STILL BE SAVED.