Will Christ set up His literal Kingdom on earth in the future?

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Aug 7, 2016
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#61
40 years is about a short enough span of time, for soon to really happen, for those people who received the Revelation back then, I mean it's not like these letters was written to us. It was written to people back in the Ancient Days, who would read this letter and be like O_O Okay, so things are fixing to happen soon...

Futurist will say that Revelation 1 - 3 is fine, but then 4- through the rest is all future.

But the thing is, it wasn't like the churches had received the first 3 chapters, they received the whole letter John had written. All 7 churches read this Letter about the Revelation, and the apostles even wrote to other churches, to maintain in faith and be ready for that day of the Lord was going to come.


I think this is why the confusion is made, because in the bible it is important to go along with it asking Who, What, Why, When, Where, and How...

If you can bring yourself to read in this manner you would probably get more in-depth studying done with the bible. You can actually look and read the context as if you were reading along with them, but it is a direct message for them at that time.

I will say it is a great wonderful thing that we have do have the Word of God of now to read, and learn about God, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Praise be to the Lord Jesus Christ, for the Glory of God, and may the peace of them return unto you.
 
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Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
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#62
A remnant of the word thousand signified.,I offer below.. Something a friend shared with me a few years ago. I have a longer version if interested?

A THOUSAND and TEN THOUSAND

The terms one thousand and ten thousand are employed many times in Scripture, in varying figurative senses, to describe large numbers or vast periods of time. The expressions are also commonly used to symbolically describe great pictures of immeasurable vastness.

The first time the actual term ‘‘a thousand’’ is used in a figurative sense in Scripture is found in Deuteronomy 1:10-11where Moses is seen speaking to the children of Israel, saying, ““The Lord your God hath multiplied you, and, behold, ye are this day as the stars of heaven for multitude. (The Lord God of your fathers make you A THOUSAND times so many more as ye are, and bless you, as he hath promised you!).””

Moses, here, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit employs the term ‘‘a thousand’’ to reveal the immense prosperity he desires for the people of God. This expression again does not in any way denote an exact ‘‘thousand’’ but rather explains in a figurative sense the deep sense of spiritual increase he wishes to see bestowed on his kindred from the providential hand of the God of his fathers. This passage is not intending to limit God's blessing to an expansion of only one thousand times. Rather it is a figurative way of saying that God is the source of ALL increase and ALL blessing.

The Psalmist says, whilst exalting the Word of God in Psalm 119:72, ““The law of thy mouth is better unto me than THOUSANDS of gold and silver.”” Here he is simply highlighting the unfathomable riches of God’s eternal truth, in stark contrast to the temporal satisfaction of worldly possessions and worldly gain. That’s why Christ asked in Mark 8:36-37, ““For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?””

Isaiah 7:22-24 says, ““And it shall come to pass, for the abundance of milk that they shall give he shall eat butter: for butter and honey shall every one eat that is left in the land. And it shall come to pass in that day, that every place shall be, where there were A THOUSAND vines at A THOUSAND silverlings (or, for the price of a thousand bits of silver), it shall even be for briers and thorns.””

The term ““a thousand”” is here used as a symbol (rather than an exact amount) to impress a scriptural truth, indicating the grave consequence of disobedience –– briers and thorns would replace the many fruitful vines.

Moses again employs ‘‘a thousand’’ in Deuteronomy 7:9 saying, ““Know therefore that the LORD thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to A THOUSAND generations.”” This reading expressly reveals that God is a covenant keeping God. Moses is specifically testifying to the unfailing faithfulness of God and to the continuous bountiful mercies He bestows upon His people. Psalm 119:90 says, ““Thy faithfulness is unto all generations.”” He is here, in some way, articulating the reality of His perpetual blessings and the enormity of His love towards His elect. The term ““a thousand”” is here used as an indeterminate number, evidently indicating all generations.

Psalm 89:4 says, ““Thy seed will I establish for ever, and build up thy throne to all generations.””

A thousand generations is therefore simply used here as a figure or symbol to represent all generations, it unquestionably cannot be limited to, or specifically relate to, a fixed number. This is highlighted when we discover the small amount of generations that have hitherto passed in this world.

Genesis 5:1-32 tells us that (1) Adam begat (2) Seth begat (3) Enos begat (4) Cainan begat (5) Mahalaleel begat (6) Jared begat (7) Enoch begat (8) Methuselah begat (9) Lamech begat (10) Noah begat (11) Shem. There is therefore eleven generations from Adam to Shem.

Genesis 11:1-32 says, (1) Shem begat (2) Arphaxad begat (3) Salah begat (4) Eber begat (5) Peleg begat (6) Reu begat (7) Serug begat (8) Nahor begat (9) Terah begat (10) Abram. There is therefore ten generations from Seth to Abraham.

Matthew 1:17 completes the remainder of the equation from Abraham to Christ, stating, ““So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

Therefore:

Adam to Shem = 11 generations.
Shem to Abraham = 10 generations.
Abraham to David = 14 generations.
David to ““the carrying away into Babylon”” = 14 generations.
““The carrying away into Babylon”” unto Christ = 14 generations.

11 + 10 + 14 + 14 + 14 = 63 generations.

This is just a rough generational list, however, Luke accurately traces the exact direct generational lineage from Adam to Christ in Luke 3:23-38, and arrives at 76 generations. Moreover, just over 2,000 years have now elapsed from Christ to our present day; therefore, allowing approximately for a 40-year generation (2000 divided by 40), we have only reached an additional 50 generations today. We have consequently only approximately exhausted 126 generations roughly 874 short of the precise 1000 generations mark, which the literalists would have us believe.
Do you think that because something was used metaphorically once, or even many times, that it means it may never be used in an exact manner?

A snake or serpent always seems to mean Satan. Except for the one time it didn't, but instead was a picture of Jesus on the cross in the OT.

And leaven always signifies the erroneous teaching of men. Except for the one time it didn't in one of Jesus' parables.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
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#63
40 years is about a short enough span of time, for soon to really happen, for those people who received the Revelation back then, I mean it's not like these letters was written to us. It was written to people back in the Ancient Days, who would read this letter and be like O_O Okay, so things are fixing to happen soon...

Futurist will say that Revelation 1 - 3 is fine, but then 4- through the rest is all future.

But the thing is, it wasn't like the churches had received the first 3 chapters, they received the whole letter John had written. All 7 churches read this Letter about the Revelation, and the apostles even wrote to other churches, to maintain in faith and be ready for that day of the Lord was going to come.


I think this is why the confusion is made, because in the bible it is important to go along with it asking Who, What, Why, When, Where, and How...

If you can bring yourself to read in this manner you would probably get more in-depth studying done with the bible. You can actually look and read the context as if you were reading along with them, but it is a direct message for them at that time.

I will say it is a great wonderful thing that we have do have the Word of God of now to read, and learn about God, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Praise be to the Lord Jesus Christ, for the Glory of God, and may the peace of them return unto you.
God causes everything to repeat, as Ecclesiastes says. And until a fulfillment, there are many shadows. Sometimes, I think we mistake a shadow for the fulfillment...
 
Nov 23, 2016
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#64
God causes everything to repeat, as Ecclesiastes says. And until a fulfillment, there are many shadows. Sometimes, I think we mistake a shadow for the fulfillment...
Me too. Take for example, Jesus Christ being the fulfillment of scripture and the sacrifice for our sins. And yet, many dispensationalists claim a return to animal sacrifices in the millennial kingdom ... in Christ's presence, no less. If people can't see this for the abomination that it is, what is there left to say ?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#65
compare Daniel to these passages and tell me what you come up with....

Revelation 21 English Standard Version (ESV)

The New Heaven and the New Earth
1. There cannot be any conflicts or contradictions within the Word of God. Therefore Revelation 21 should be -- and can be -- reconciled with all the prophecies pertaining to the literal Kingdom of God on earth.

2. The New Jerusalem is the eternal home of the Lamb's Wife -- the Church. So the saints who are within the Church (all redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body until the Resurrection/Rapture) will always have the New Jerusalem as their home, with their individual mansions and inheritances.

3. There will also be a redeemed and restored Jerusalem and Temple on earth when the kingdom of Israel is restored by Christ. That greater Israel will be surrounded by saved nations. Christ will be King and David will be Prince under Him and rule over Israel. This will be the literal Kingdom of God on earth during the Millennium and also eternally on the New Earth.

4. The New Jerusalem will descend from Heaven but NOT to the earth. It will hover over the New Earth as a celestial body, and the light from the New Jerusalem will provide light to the earth.

5. There will be communication and travel between the New Earth and the New Jerusalem. We are not told how that will occur, but it will allow the saints from the New Jerusalem to fulfil their royal responsibilities on the New Earth, and also allow the kings of the earth to fulfil their worship responsibilities when they enter the New Jerusalem.

6. We are not given a great deal of detail regarding all of this, since God knows that mortal men cannot really comprehend many things which are reserved for the future. Even all of the above can only be understood by those who have the indwelling Holy Spirit. But to natural men (the unsaved) all of this appears to be foolishness.

1 CORINTHIANS 2

9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.
16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#66
Not trying to argue or anything just looking logically, I'm suppose to listen to what Jesus Christ has stated, not on what people believe on their hearts that will happen, which is totally okay.
Those who listen to what Christ has to say believe ALL of Scripture, not cherry pick what they will believe and what they will disbelieve or ignore. Since Christ is the Word of God who has told us that we are to live by every word of God (Scripture) Christians must take ALL of Scripture as a whole and see what God has revealed. There are literally dozens of passages in the Bible which speak about God's literal Kingdom on earth. And there is no conflict between the Old and New Testaments in this regard.
 
Aug 7, 2016
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#67
Those who listen to what Christ has to say believe ALL of Scripture, not cherry pick what they will believe and what they will disbelieve or ignore.
It doesn't bother me how anyone feels about how I see scripture brother in Christ Jesus Nehemiah6.

To listen to what Christ has to say is to believe ALL OF SCRIPTURE - Are you basing this off of Sola Scriptura?

To listen to what Jesus Christ has said is to believe on Him, and to Love God, and to Love Others.

If what you say is true, then why don't you believe Jesus Christ when He says his Kingdom is not of earth? that the kingdom of Heaven is not observable?

Who is right in the case here? Jesus Christ or You? I know we have the bible and it's the Word of God, Also I believe that the old testament and the new testament co-relate like a puzzle fitting together too, but I believe it has been wrapped up by God already, and everything has been completed.

But if you can get past Jesus Christ let me know friend in Christ Jesus.

Please just respond to me, with an answer to this question, if you can do it...
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#68
If what you say is true, then why don't you believe Jesus Christ when He says his Kingdom is not of earth? that the kingdom of Heaven is not observable?
I have already addressed this but I will address it again. If we ignore the context of this saying, we will not understand why it was said at the time it was said and why it has no bearing on the OP. So let's go back and look at the CONTEXT.

JOHN 18 (KJB)

33 Then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again, and called Jesus, and said unto him, Art thou the King of the Jews?

34
Jesus answered him, Sayest thou this thing of thyself, or did others tell it thee of me?

35
Pilate answered, Am I a Jew? Thine own nation and the chief priests have delivered thee unto me: what hast thou done?

36
Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

37
Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered,Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

38
Pilate saith unto him, What is truth? And when he had said this, he went out again unto the Jews, and saith unto them, I find in him no fault at all.

1. Why was Christ before Pilate? Because the Jews wanted to have Him crucified.

2. Did God plan to have Christ crucified? Absolutely

3. Did God already know that Pilate would send Jesus to the Cross? Absolutely

4. If that was God's plan, then could Christ have established His Kingdom on earth at the same time? Absolutely not.

5. So in what sense was the Kingdom of Christ "not of this world"? It was in the hearts of those who had received Him as Lord and Savior.

6. Even while Christ was at His mock trial before the Sanhedrin, did He tell the Jews that He would return with power and great glory? Absolutely. And here is where we see the parallel with the prophecy of Daniel, which connects the second coming to the literal Kingdom of God on earth.

Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven. (Mt 26:64).

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13,14).


7. So when Christ returns at His second coming, will He establish His Kingdom on earth? Absolutely.

So, to put it in a nutshell, the first coming of Christ was in HUMILIATION in order to become the Lamb of God on the Cross of Calvary. Therefore He could not -- and would not -- establish His Kingdom at that time. However, the second coming of Christ is indeed to establish His Kingdom on earth. Therefore His words to Pilate were appropriate in that context. When you pull those words out of context, you nullify the other Scriptures.
 
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Aug 7, 2016
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#69
7. So when Christ returns at His second coming, will He establish His Kingdom on earth? Absolutely.

So, to put it in a nutshell, the first coming of Christ was in HUMILIATION in order to become the Lamb of God on the Cross of Calvary. Therefore He could not -- and would not -- establish His Kingdom at that time. However, the second coming of Christ is indeed to establish His Kingdom on earth. Therefore His words to Pilate were appropriate in that context. When you pull those words out of context, you nullify the other Scriptures.

Since I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has already come, His Kingdom is established on earth already, brother Nehemiah6...

His Kingdom resides in the hearts of believers! How amazing it's unobservable because it resides in the heart, of a believer.

The only difference really between us is, you dont believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has come back yet, and I do.


God bless you and thank you for actually taking time to answer me.
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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#70
Since I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has already come, His Kingdom is established on earth already, brother Nehemiah6...

His Kingdom resides in the hearts of believers! How amazing it's unobservable because it resides in the heart, of a believer.

The only difference really between us is, you dont believe that the Lord Jesus Christ has come back yet, and I do.


God bless you and thank you for actually taking time to answer me.
That means then that Jesus kingdom exist only in your imagination?
If he would already has established his kingdom in our hearts, I am convinced that the Holy Spirit would let us know . And you should not forget that his kingdom is also conectet with the nation of Israel
 
Aug 7, 2016
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#71
That means then that Jesus kingdom exist only in your imagination?
If he would already has established his kingdom in our hearts, I am convinced that the Holy Spirit would let us know . And you should not forget that his kingdom is also conectet with the nation of Israel
I'm not the only one who believes that Jesus Christ has returned... Thanks for your comment brother Wolfwint. I'm so thankful I'm not the only one because it makes me seem like I'm less crazy in this dang confusing world like it is.

Praise the Lord JEsus Christ for everything He has done for the Glory of God
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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#72
I'm not the only one who believes that Jesus Christ has returned... Thanks for your comment brother Wolfwint. I'm so thankful I'm not the only one because it makes me seem like I'm less crazy in this dang confusing world like it is.

Praise the Lord JEsus Christ for everything He has done for the Glory of God

What point in scripture do you say that the Lord returned in his second coming?
 
Aug 7, 2016
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#73
What point in scripture do you say that the Lord returned in his second coming?

All the scripture that Jesus Christ talks about His coming, all the Apostles that talks about Jesus Christ returning. They are all in the new testament and can be found when reading the bible in the new testament, when Jesus Christ talks about an evil generation and tells the Pharisee's they are Hypocrits, Jesus Christ tells the disciples that they wont even make to every town in Israel before the Son of Man even comes back.

The entire new testament speaks about His return, and His return is captured in the book of Revelation about a time that was going to happen soon, not in the future.

Jesus Christ has fulfilled everything, even when he told His disciples you see these temples? They will be destoried, and every one know that the second temple was destoryed, yet everyone wants to sit and wait for Him to come back not really fully understanding that He is already there with you now.

But Hey don't believe me, Go read that book you have and find out for yourself.
 
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Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#74
What point in scripture do you say that the Lord returned in his second coming?
Soandso - long time no see....


Right before "everyone" received da mark.....
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
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#76
All the scripture that Jesus Christ talks about His coming, all the Apostles that talks about Jesus Christ returning. They are all in the new testament and can be found when reading the bible in the new testament, when Jesus Christ talks about an evil generation and tells the Pharisee's they are Hypocrits, Jesus Christ tells the disciples that they wont even make to every town in Israel before the Son of Man even comes back.

The entire new testament speaks about His return, and His return is captured in the book of Revelation about a time that was going to happen soon, not in the future.

Jesus Christ has fulfilled everything, even when he told His disciples you see these temples? They will be destoried, and every one know that the second temple was destoryed, yet everyone wants to sit and wait for Him to come back not really fully understanding that He is already there with you now.

But Hey don't believe me, Go read that book you have and find out for yourself.

In Daniel 2 when the stone is cast at the image are the ten horns/toes present or coming after the stone is cast?
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#77
lol, the part you cannot explain right?
That part is difficult for anyone to explain - don't mean it isn't a past event.

Look at the overall picture rather then worry warting over a missing pixel or two.

I don't need to know what Kentucky looks like to know I'm looking at a large map of the USA.
 

iamsoandso

Senior Member
Oct 6, 2011
7,840
1,564
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#78
That part is difficult for anyone to explain - don't mean it isn't a past event.

Look at the overall picture rather then worry warting over a missing pixel or two.

I don't need to know what Kentucky looks like to know I'm looking at a large map of the USA.

Answerthe ? I ask MG,,,
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#79
this is a very interesting thread to read. I will have to read and pray about what everyone has said.

special thanks to EG for answering.

however I may have to step out of the discussion. i have found i joined too many threads and its really time consuming so I will limit myself to a couple during the week because my week is REALLY busy lol.

God bless and keep you all.

PS. if you really want me to answer, send me a PM with a link and I will try my best when God gives me time.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#80
Answer the what?

I know you asked Matt - that doesn't mean I can't respond to your question.