How Loving is God really?

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newton3003

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2017
437
42
28
#1
How Loving is God really?

In John 14:15, Jesus says “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” We understand this to mean that the commandments of Jesus are what comes from God, so it would seem that the only way we can express our love of God to Him is to keep his commandments. In this regard, He is a loving God.

But was He always a loving God even in this fashion? 2 Samuel 6:6-7 mentions a man named Uzzah, whom God strikes dead. His “crime,” if you can call it that? He laid his hand on the ark of God to steady it as the oxen who carried it had stumbled. This happened shortly after David was made king of Israel, and David was in the process of moving the ark of God to Jerusalem.

You would think offhand that Uzzah was serving a noble purpose in keeping the ark from falling, but apparently God didn’t see it that way. Some have said that Uzzah’s stature was less than the Levites, so he was forbidden from touching the ark regardless of whether it may fall. Some have said that God was angry with Uzzah not so much because he touched the ark, but because he had no faith that God himself would keep the ark from falling. Both assertions may be true, since the Bible is full of stories of those who’ve skirted His Law, and we know that God tests our faith from time to time.

Where is the Love of God in that incident? It appears that the ark and what it symbolizes is more important to God than Uzzah, who was one of His creations and therefore was one of many sons and daughters of God who live on earth. God doesn’t seem to love Uzzah here; was He making an example out of him? If so, where is God’s Love here?

Did Jesus actually say that God loves us? The closest he comes is JOHN 14:23 in which he says, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.” But again, it goes back to keeping God’s commandments through Jesus. These raises, yet again, the interplay or conflict between out faith and our works. Keeping God’s commandments can be seen as a matter of works, because it implies we have to do something to gain God’s Love. Some may say that our mere faith in God would enable us to fulfill his commandments, but the Bible says, in James 2:17, that “faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” So, out love of God, it seems, consists of both faith and works.

Uzzah may have thought he was demonstrating his love of God through his works of steadying the ark, though, but as we see, we have to be careful that our works truly reflect God’s commandments.

Is there anywhere else in the Bible, apart from Jesus and John, that actually says God loves us? Well, we would have to look to Psalm 136:1-3 which says, “Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good, for his steadfast love endures forever. Give thanks to the God of gods, for his steadfast love endures forever. Give thanks to the Lord of lords, for his steadfast love endures forever…”

Perhaps Jesus may have believed he need not repeat what it says in the Psalms, so he didn’t harp on God’s love for us. One may ask, though, if God’s love is conditional---That is, whether God’s love is conditioned on how well we abide by His commandments through Jesus.

Many of us have been brought up to believe that true love isn’t conditional, it just happens. There are many in the clergy who would maintain that God’s love is indeed conditional, to the point where if we do not abide by is commandments, they say that fire and brimstone will rain upon us. They say that natural catastrophes are the work of God who punishes those who don’t abide by His commandments. How many Uzzah’s might we have in the world, who believe they may be doing good, but in fact have aroused God’s ire?

We don’t know enough about God to figure out all His motivations, and Proverbs 3:5 says in effect to don’t even bother figuring God out. If we go to help someone who may be carrying one of God’s sacred things, would we risk being punished along with the person because of the way God assesses matters? If we raise an individual in our home, totally unaware that the person is planning to shoot up a school and follows through, how would God see us?
 
Aug 7, 2016
203
7
0
#2
God is the very definition of what Love is.

1 John 4:8 he who is not loving did not know God, because God is love.

1 Corinthians 13: 3 If I gave everything I have to the poor and even sacrificed my body, I could boast about it;[a] but if I didn’t love others, I would have gained nothing.4 Love is patient and kind. Love is not jealous or boastful or proud 5 or rude. It does not demand its own way. It is not irritable, and it keeps no record of being wronged. 6 It does not rejoice about injustice but rejoices whenever the truth wins out. 7 Love never gives up, never loses faith, is always hopeful, and endures through every circumstance.
8 Prophecy and speaking in unknown languages[b] and special knowledge will become useless. But love will last forever!
 
Aug 7, 2016
203
7
0
#4
6 And they come unto the threshing-floor of Nachon, and Uzzah putteth forth [his hand] unto the ark of God, and layeth hold on it, for they released the oxen;
7 and the anger of Jehovah burneth against Uzzah, and God smiteth him there for the error, and he dieth there by the ark of God.

It doesn't say anything about God not loving Him. Just because He died, doesn't mean anything I don't think.

Maybe I am wrong and God is just really mean for no reasons...

Was there commandment given in any of the chapter before hand that states about touching the Ark?
 

newton3003

Senior Member
Feb 4, 2017
437
42
28
#5
[h=3]Deuteronomy 10:8 At that time the Lord set apart the tribe of Levi to carry the ark of the covenant of the Lord to stand before the Lord to minister to him and to bless in his name, to this day.


[/h]
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,331
113
#6
Did Jesus actually say that God loves us? The closest he comes is JOHN 14:23 in which he says, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.
Just thought I would post the following.

John 17:23
23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.
 

NotmebutHim

Senior Member
May 17, 2015
2,916
1,588
113
47
#7
God's love is an essential part of His nature. He cannot be or act contrary to that.
 
U

Ugly

Guest
#8
John 3:16?
 
M

Miri

Guest
#9
The love of God is indescribable, I’ve experienced it and I still can’t
adequately describe it. See testimony below.

http://christianchat.com/testimonie...ildless-father-who-discovered-father-god.html

I’ve also experienced it in a tangible way since but not that level of intensity.

I once heard someone say, that for Christians we can get our head around the “does God love
us”, question. The answer is yes it’s in the bible.

But many struggle with the “does God like me” question.
The answer to that one comes as a person gets to know God personally, not just head
factual knowledge but to actually know Him.

In fact the answers to both questions come as we grow in the Lord.

To the OP it’s good that you are asking, keep asking.

By the way there are numerous verses in the bible about God’s love.
Some directly John 3 v 16,
others indirectly where they show His love and care. The fact that He
didnt just destroy the world when Adam and Eve fell but that he continued
to provide for them, is one such example.


Here is a good verse about God’s love for starters.

Zephaniah 3:17 AMPC
[17] The Lord your God is in the midst of you, a Mighty One, a Savior Who saves!
He will rejoice over you with joy; He will rest in silent satisfaction and in His
love He will be silent and make no mention of past sins, or even recall them; He
will exult over you with singing.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#10
This is how loving God is

 
D

Depleted

Guest
#11
Did God love Uzzah?
You're missing the other part here. God is loving. God is also holy/perfect. So holy he cannot be in the presences of sin. That would be something like throwing mud on a perfectly clean, sparkling white cloth that cannot have any dirt on it. Now whereas we really can throw mud on a clean cloth, it just stops being clean, God cannot stop being clean/holy/perfect.

That ark was where God rested during that journey. Uzzah touched it. Uzzah was not perfect, so something had to happen there. Two objects cannot occupy the same space, and yet Uzzah accidentally touched God's space. So, he died.

But, given he was very much interested in doing good for God, he was probably also saved. (The unsaved have no interest in doing good for God.) Therefore, in that next moment, he was with the Lord.

Why you're making this into your own special teaching, I don't know. Then again, probably because I stopped reading your very-special teaching when I figured out this was all about you trying to prove something against God, so didn't bother reading it.
 
Aug 7, 2016
203
7
0
#12
You're missing the other part here. God is loving. God is also holy/perfect. So holy he cannot be in the presences of sin. That would be something like throwing mud on a perfectly clean, sparkling white cloth that cannot have any dirt on it. Now whereas we really can throw mud on a clean cloth, it just stops being clean, God cannot stop being clean/holy/perfect.

That ark was where God rested during that journey. Uzzah touched it. Uzzah was not perfect, so something had to happen there. Two objects cannot occupy the same space, and yet Uzzah accidentally touched God's space. So, he died.

But, given he was very much interested in doing good for God, he was probably also saved. (The unsaved have no interest in doing good for God.) Therefore, in that next moment, he was with the Lord.

Good words
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,331
113
#13
But, given he was very much interested in doing good for God, he was probably also saved. (The unsaved have no interest in doing good for God.) Therefore, in that next moment, he was with the Lord.
Never thought of it that way.

Will said no lady
 

Laish

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2016
1,666
448
83
57
#14
How Loving is God really?

In John 14:15, Jesus says “If you love me, you will keep my commandments.” We understand this to mean that the commandments of Jesus are what comes from God, so it would seem that the only way we can express our love of God to Him is to keep his commandments. In this regard, He is a loving God.

But was He always a loving God even in this fashion? 2 Samuel 6:6-7 mentions a man named Uzzah, whom God strikes dead. His “crime,” if you can call it that? He laid his hand on the ark of God to steady it as the oxen who carried it had stumbled. This happened shortly after David was made king of Israel, and David was in the process of moving the ark of God to Jerusalem.
T
You would think offhand that Uzzah was serving a noble purpose in keeping the ark from falling, but apparently God didn’t see it that way. Some have said that Uzzah’s stature was less than the Levites, so he was forbidden from touching the ark regardless of whether it may fall. Some have said that God was angry with Uzzah not so much because he touched the ark, but because he had no faith that God himself would keep the ark from falling. Both assertions may be true, since the Bible is full of stories of those who’ve skirted His Law, and we know that God tests our faith from time to time.

Where is the Love of God in that incident? It appears that the ark and what it symbolizes is more important to God than Uzzah, who was one of His creations and therefore was one of many sons and daughters of God who live on earth. God doesn’t seem to love Uzzah here; was He making an example out of him? If so, where is God’s Love here?

Did Jesus actually say that God loves us? The closest he comes is JOHN 14:23 in which he says, “If anyone loves me, he will keep my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.” But again, it goes back to keeping God’s commandments through Jesus. These raises, yet again, the interplay or conflict between out faith and our works. Keeping God’s commandments can be seen as a matter of works, because it implies we have to do something to gain God’s Love. Some may say that our mere faith in God would enable us to fulfill his commandments, but the Bible says, in James 2:17, that “faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead.” So, out love of God, it seems, consists of both faith and works.

Uzzah may have thought he was demonstrating his love of God through his works of steadying the ark, though, but as we see, we have to be careful that our works truly reflect God’s commandments.

Is there anywhere else in the Bible, apart from Jesus and John, that actually says God loves us? Well, we would have to look to Psalm 136:1-3 which says, “Give thanks to the LORD, for he is good, for his steadfast love endures forever. Give thanks to the God of gods, for his steadfast love endures forever. Give thanks to the Lord of lords, for his steadfast love endures forever…”

Perhaps Jesus may have believed he need not repeat what it says in the Psalms, so he didn’t harp on God’s love for us. One may ask, though, if God’s love is conditional---That is, whether God’s love is conditioned on how well we abide by His commandments through Jesus.

Many of us have been brought up to believe that true love isn’t conditional, it just happens. There are many in the clergy who would maintain that God’s love is indeed conditional, to the point where if we do not abide by is commandments, they say that fire and brimstone will rain upon us. They say that natural catastrophes are the work of God who punishes those who don’t abide by His commandments. How many Uzzah’s might we have in the world, who believe they may be doing good, but in fact have aroused God’s ire?

We don’t know enough about God to figure out all His motivations, and Proverbs 3:5 says in effect to don’t even bother figuring God out. If we go to help someone who may be carrying one of God’s sacred things, would we risk being punished along with the person because of the way God assesses matters? If we raise an individual in our home, totally unaware that the person is planning to shoot up a school and follows through, how would God see us?
Well I see a lot mercy in the account of Uzzah . Look at how they were moving the Ark of the Testimony. The Levites had neglected their duties. They placed the Ark on oxen . This duty was not for beasts it was for the levites . All involved with moving the Ark were shown great mercy . They should have faced Justice for treating the Ark with such disrespect . Instead most were shown the grace of a loving God . For me if we look at what happened without considering what God could have done we can miss out on seeing the mercy and grace He has given us .
Blessings
Bill
 
Mar 23, 2016
6,732
1,630
113
#15
According to 1 Samuel 7:1-2, the ark was kept at the house of Abinadab, and Eleazar, Abinadab’s son was appointed to guard the ark. The ark remained at the house of Abinadab for 20 years.

According to 2 Samuel 6::3 Uzzah and Ahio, also sons of Abinadab, drove the ark to Nachon’s threshing floor.

When the ark was moved, it was not moved according to the instructions given by God in Numbers 4. Numbers 4:15 states specifically that no one was to touch any holy thing. Even the sons of Kohath, who were chosen to serve in the tabernacle, were not to touch the holy things:

Numbers 4:15 And when Aaron and his sons have made an end of covering the sanctuary, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, as the camp is to set forward; after that, the sons of Kohath shall come to bear it: but they shall not touch any holy thing, lest they die. These things are the burden of the sons of Kohath in the tabernacle of the congregation.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#16
Ever heard of a thing called the cross?? That about sums it up
 
Mar 23, 2016
6,732
1,630
113
#17
According to Eph 3:19, the love of Christ surpasses knowledge.

Can’t know that love of Christ through any endeavor of our own. Has to be a revealing by the HS in the heart.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,529
113
77
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#18
We are told to compare our relationship with God by our earthly relationships. That is why we use Father and Wife of Christ. We should look at examples of perfected, or at least very good, relationships like these to understand God's love.

Luke 12:6,7: "Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows." Does this scripture not sound like love? :)
 
B

Bella37

Guest
#19
We are told to compare our relationship with God by our earthly relationships. That is why we use Father and Wife of Christ. We should look at examples of perfected, or at least very good, relationships like these to understand God's love.

Luke 12:6,7: "Are not five sparrows sold for two farthings, and not one of them is forgotten before God? But even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. Fear not therefore: ye are of more value than many sparrows." Does this scripture not sound like love? :)

Amen & Amen! XO :) <><<

 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
36,530
13,094
113
#20
We don’t know enough about God to figure out all His motivations, and Proverbs 3:5 says in effect to don’t even bother figuring God out.

um, i don't think that's what Solomon is trying to teach us in Proverbs 3:5 at all !

what does Proverbs 3:6 say?
how can you acknowledge Him in all your ways if you keep yourself ignorant of Him?

in fact, trusting Him while 'leaning not on your own understanding' ought to result in you spending more effort figuring out His person and His ways than figuring out your own!