Works Salvation

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Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
#1
I see a number of people rail against works salvation and I am not sure what it is. I know and believe that you can do no work to merit the gift of faith. It is free grace given by God. After that saving faith what role if any do works play in salvation. By works I mean things mentioned in Mt 25:35-37, giving food to the hungry, water to the thirsty, welcoming the stranger, visiting the sick and those in prison. What if someone with saving faith does no work what will be the verdict of Christ on judgement day. Will they go to heaven? Will those who do work get greater rewards in heaven than those who do not work.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,764
113
#2
Will those who do work get greater rewards in heaven than those who do not work.
Absolutely. But the motives will also be closely examined. The best way to put this in perspective is to study Ephesians 2:8-10:

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9
Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.


 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,097
6,480
113
#3
FIRST: Good works ARE NOT to receive salvation, they are a FRUIT of salvation. That being said however, they ARE very important for all believers.

Romans 2:6) Who will render to every man according to his deeds:

Matthew 16:27)
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

2 Corinthians 4:10) [FONT=&quot]For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

[/FONT]
1 Corinthians 3:8) [FONT=&quot]Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.[/FONT]

 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,097
6,480
113
#4
1 Corinthians 3 in context



8) Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are your's;
22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are your's;
23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#5
I see a number of people rail against works salvation and I am not sure what it is. I know and believe that you can do no work to merit the gift of faith. It is free grace given by God. After that saving faith what role if any do works play in salvation. By works I mean things mentioned in Mt 25:35-37, giving food to the hungry, water to the thirsty, welcoming the stranger, visiting the sick and those in prison. What if someone with saving faith does no work what will be the verdict of Christ on judgement day. Will they go to heaven? Will those who do work get greater rewards in heaven than those who do not work.

Works based salvation is the following:

Works (no matter what the work is, or the amount of works) are required to

1. Get saved
2.Maintain salvation
3. Keep us from losing salvation.

if anyone teaches that we are saved because of works of righteousness we have done, Then they are teaching works. (Also known as legalsim)

What works based salvation is not

Saying that a person who is saved shouldallow God to sanctify us by making us into people who are working out their salvation because they have been made a new creature.

 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,877
4,332
113
#6
I see a number of people rail against works salvation and I am not sure what it is. I know and believe that you can do no work to merit the gift of faith. It is free grace given by God. After that saving faith what role if any do works play in salvation. By works I mean things mentioned in Mt 25:35-37, giving food to the hungry, water to the thirsty, welcoming the stranger, visiting the sick and those in prison. What if someone with saving faith does no work what will be the verdict of Christ on judgement day. Will they go to heaven? Will those who do work get greater rewards in heaven than those who do not work.
Funnily enough I have in another thread just posted that works are not what we do, but what we don't do and quoted what Jesus said "if you did not do to them then you did not do it for me"

Matthew 25:45
45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’

What I find is that works salvation focuses on the sins of the flesh as in Galatians.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying we should disregard this.
In Jesus we should seek to crucify the flesh.

The problem is that that can become our focus and we can neglect Mt 25:35-37.

I think of Peter at times.
A hot headed man. In today's culture he would be labelled as having anger management issues.
Jesus knew he was a hothead.
Yet he still chose him and used him.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#7
I see a number of people rail against works salvation and I am not sure what it is. I know and believe that you can do no work to merit the gift of faith. It is free grace given by God. After that saving faith what role if any do works play in salvation. By works I mean things mentioned in Mt 25:35-37, giving food to the hungry, water to the thirsty, welcoming the stranger, visiting the sick and those in prison. What if someone with saving faith does no work what will be the verdict of Christ on judgement day. Will they go to heaven? Will those who do work get greater rewards in heaven than those who do not work.
motive is a big part of it...

Jesus spoke about how we should pray in private and not in public in order to be praised by men.

Good works are the same way.

do you do them BECAUSE God's love is in you?

OR do you do them to earn God's approval because you fear punishment if you don"t?

many other religions use fear of punishment or lost of rewards to cause people to do good works.

True Christianity says God loves you no matter what and that it is out of the abundance of GOD"S LOVE that you are moved in your heart to love and take care of others. not fear but love moves those who have the Holy spirit.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#8
Titus 3:4-7 “But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared,5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.”

John 3:3 “Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”


I Peter 1:3-5 “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,4 to an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, kept in heaven for you,5 who by God's power are being guarded through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.”

It is by His mercy and grace which has nothing to do with us.
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
#9
mercy and grace has everything to do with us...if we define "us" as the new born again children of God.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#10
I know and believe that you can do no work to merit the gift of faith.
So do you know or do you believe? :rolleyes: Prov 9:17-18

Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; John 3:11


Since faith is the substance of thing(s) hoped for, the evidence of things not seen then if faith come[FONT=&quot] faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Son of God then show us your faith in the word of God by the evidence of things(s) unseen and I will show you my faith in the Son of God by the evidence of things seen. [/FONT]

Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him:
John 14:17

[FONT=&quot]For we are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? [/FONT][FONT=&quot]25 But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it.[/FONT]Rom 8:24-25


 
D

Depleted

Guest
#11
I see a number of people rail against works salvation and I am not sure what it is. I know and believe that you can do no work to merit the gift of faith. It is free grace given by God. After that saving faith what role if any do works play in salvation. By works I mean things mentioned in Mt 25:35-37, giving food to the hungry, water to the thirsty, welcoming the stranger, visiting the sick and those in prison. What if someone with saving faith does no work what will be the verdict of Christ on judgement day. Will they go to heaven? Will those who do work get greater rewards in heaven than those who do not work.
"Works salvation" isn't an after-the-fact belief. It's a how-to-get-saved-and-stay-saved belief.

It says things like "You must choose," "You must decide," "You must have faith," "You must believe," "You must have saving faith," "You must keep your eyes on Jesus," "You must not sin ever again," "You must be perfect," "You must be baptized in water," "You must speak in tongues," etc. Basically, it's a save-yourself mentality.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
#12
I see a number of people rail against works salvation and I am not sure what it is. I know and believe that you can do no work to merit the gift of faith. It is free grace given by God. After that saving faith what role if any do works play in salvation. By works I mean things mentioned in Mt 25:35-37, giving food to the hungry, water to the thirsty, welcoming the stranger, visiting the sick and those in prison. What if someone with saving faith does no work what will be the verdict of Christ on judgement day. Will they go to heaven? Will those who do work get greater rewards in heaven than those who do not work.
Well the dispute is not over "rewards" it's over the gift of salvation,it is true that through doing right for Jesus that people will have "treasures in heaven" according to one's "works" the trouble is that the works salvation idea puts focus on "self" and "doing something for something" instead of serving Jesus "willingly"(because one wants to and cares for Jesus) and humbly.(without a bunch of pride and selfish desires)
 
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Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#13
Works salvation denies the sovereignty of God, His unconditional election, predestination, foreknowledge. It denies His power to save sinners from their sins which has made man a slave to it, this is why they need to be born again by the grace and His great love for His people.

Ephesians 2:4-7 “But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.”

He made us alive with Christ because of His great love for us, we love Him because He first loved us I John 4:19 “We love Him because He first loved us.”

The idea of works salvation goes against what the Bible teaches about salvation by grace through faith. The doctrine it goes against with-in the doctrine of salvation is justification, because it is by faith and faith alone it is a gift from God.

Romans 12:3 “For I say, through the grace given to me, to everyone who is among you, not to think
of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith.”

If the Lord does not justify us we are guilty as charged to be judged to an eternity in eternal flames of fire, once justified by the Lord we can never be charged for our sins again. If we were that would be double
jeopardy and the Lord would be unjust and we know He is not unjust so our salvation is gaurunteed by Him by His Spirit He seals us until the day of Jesus Christ, no works can gauruntee anything because us as man fail all the time.

Works salvation makes man God and God man or as Romans 1:18-23 put it, works salvation bring these Scriptures alive.

“For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them.20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened.22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools,23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images resembling mortal man and birds and animals and creeping things.”

Because it takes the attributes of God in His election, grace, predestination, sovereignty, foreknowledge and mercy in salvation and transfers them to man in his self will to save himself by chosing God over God chosing certain humans to salvation. They have now made man to have these attributes unto salvation, man takes the glory for his own salvation and does not glorify God in his salvation, because man brought it about on his own, which clearly goes against Ephesians 2:9

“For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

The works salvation twists these Scriptures to be read as it is saying that faith is what bring about grace, when in chapter 1 we see what faith means for those that are the righteousness of God through Christ.

Romans 1:16-17 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.17 For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”

We live by faith, we are saved by grace and live in that grace by faith this is what Ephesians 2:8 is saying it is not saying that it is faith that brings grace verse 5c tells us how we were saved, “by grace you have been saved” we are saved by grace and we live in the righteousness of salvation by faith as we are told in chpater 1 verse 17, grace is not obtained by faith we live in the righteousness that it imputes to us by faith.

Works salvation glorifies man and makes God as having the power of a mere man, because man saves himself over the Lord saving him by His good pleasure Ephesians 1:11-14

“In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,12 so that we who were the first to hope in Christ might be to the praise of his glory.13 In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.”

Our salvation is according to the councel of His will we were predestined, He predestined us and when we heard the word of truth, we believed and were sealed by the promised Holy Spirit who guarantees our salvation to the praise of His glory. He predestined us to salvation, we respond to the word of truth by believing in Him, then we are sealed until we receive the inheritance of our salvation all to the praise of His glory. Our salvation is all by Him, we respond to Him in faith/believing/repentance and we are seal with the promised Holy Spirit until the day that salvation is fully come in the regeneration of the earth as well as our bodies. Hallelujah our salvation is all God and our responce in faith.

 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,764
113
#14
Works salvation denies the sovereignty of God...
There is no such thing as works salvation. That is pure delusion. And the focus of salvation is the grace of God, NOT His sovereignty (which is always there and should be understood biblically).

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. (Titus 2:11-14)

Now does that passage say "for the sovereignty of God..." or does it say "For the grace of God..."? Is there a reason why sovereignty is not mentioned, and if so why are you substituting it for grace?

Furthermore, the ones who are saved by grace must be "zealous of good works". In other words, good works are ESSENTIAL. They do not save, but they establish that the one doing good works is saved.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,417
3,468
113
#15
I see a number of people rail against works salvation and I am not sure what it is. I know and believe that you can do no work to merit the gift of faith. It is free grace given by God. After that saving faith what role if any do works play in salvation. By works I mean things mentioned in Mt 25:35-37, giving food to the hungry, water to the thirsty, welcoming the stranger, visiting the sick and those in prison. What if someone with saving faith does no work what will be the verdict of Christ on judgement day. Will they go to heaven? Will those who do work get greater rewards in heaven than those who do not work.
Works salvation is the belief that a person must do Works of religion like keeping holy days and taking part in religious ceremonies, Good works like doing charity and good deeds and works of sin avoidance to have salvation..

Grace slavation is the belief that people must Believe The LORD Jesus Christ that being his teachings and trust in the Atonement Jesus secured by His death on the cross for the forgiveness of all sins for salvation..

I am a grace salvation believer :D

We are saved not because of the works we do because no amount of works can eliminate the evil deeds we have done nor the evil thoughts we have thought.. We are saved when the Atoning Blood of the LORD Jesus Christ covers all our evil deeds and thoughts and thus makes us worthy of the promises of God by being forgiven all the things that would disqualify us from receiving eternal life with Jesus..

But many men think that works salvation is the way it should be for men to obtain eternal life so they reject salvation as a gift of grace from God and go out to seek to buy the gift by their efforts at righteousness.. But this is the way that leads them to death..

Proverbs 14: KJV
12 "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death."
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#16
The idea of works salvation goes against what the Bible teaches about salvation by grace through faith. The doctrine it goes against with-in the doctrine of salvation is justification, because it is by faith and faith alone it is a gift from God.
\

Since Paul wrote, "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" then under your doctrine would you consider
Saul as being saved prior to his hearing an audible voice that spoke unto him, but seeing no man, while on the road to Damascus?

And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
Acts 9:7-8



At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Acts 26:13-14​


Or does your doctrine consider Saul saved before hearing the audible voice since there is nothing to suggest that Saul didn't believe the Torah, then if there is nothing written in the NT that was already written in the OT, as evident in the non-Pauline gospel writings.

Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luke 16:29-31

If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. John 15:24-25

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? John 5:46-47

So what is the purpose that man was given faith?





 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#17
There is no such thing as works salvation. That is pure delusion. And the focus of salvation is the grace of God, NOT His sovereignty (which is always there and should be understood biblically).

For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. (Titus 2:11-14)

Now does that passage say "for the sovereignty of God..." or does it say "For the grace of God..."? Is there a reason why sovereignty is not mentioned, and if so why are you substituting it for grace?

Furthermore, the ones who are saved by grace must be "zealous of good works". In other words, good works are ESSENTIAL. They do not save, but they establish that the one doing good works is saved.
How did you miss His sovereign work in our salvation, verse 14 “who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.”

He gave Himself for His people to redeem them and to purify them for Himself a people for His own possesion. He does all the work of purifying us to be His people in our salvation and we walk in the works He has prepared for us. Ephesians 2:10 “For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.”

The works that He has for us, He prepared them for us that we should walk in them, but even then we are His workmenship, the Greek word is "POIÊMA" where we get our word peom. We are the Lord's poem and that is why we walk in the work He has prepared for us, interesting that the Holy Spirit did not use the word that would of been instruction if the works that we are to do is something with-in ourselves, but even the works that we are to do are prepared by the Lord and we poetically done, so no stress or striving. A poem is something that goes smoothly and is structured in a beautiful way, no stress and it is prepared by the Lord in us as His workmenship or poem of us.

Exactly those that think they are the ones that initiate salvation and have something to do with receiving the grace of the Lord need to take heed to what you are saying thier is no works salvation. I think that is the point of this thread to show those that elevate themselves over the Lord in salvation, to take heed as to how they think they are saved and how they have made a God of their own understanding or an idol. One thing I agree with John Calvin about this, the heart is an idol making factory, we love making the Lord into a god that we can live with and be comfortable with. And 9 times out of 10 we are the god and the Lord is the mortal being.

Your proof text for works is more about God's sovereignty in our salvation then it is about works.
 
Jun 26, 2014
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#18
This is a subject that get's misconstrued all the time. From my experience, people are generally accused of teaching a works based salvation when they say that you have to do something to be saved. This particularly happens when someone says you must be baptized to be saved. (Which i do believe) When you say that, some people immediately say that you are trying to be saved by works. What they are calling "works" is simply OBEDIENCE to Christ. When Jesus said in John 3:5 that you cannot get into heaven unless you are born of water and spirit, he was talking about water baptism and spirit baptism or receiving the Holy Ghost. (Just like they did in Acts 2:1-4) Jesus also said in Luke 13:3 that if you don't repent, you are going to perish. So is repenting a "work?" Should I not repent even though Jesus said if I don't I'm going to be lost?

We know that we are saved by grace. There was nothing that we did to deserve the opportunity to be saved. Jesus came and died on the cross because he loved us, not because we are worthy of it or because of anything we did to deserve it. But when he died on the cross, he did not automatically save everyone. If that was the case, there is no need for us to have any discussion at all. Rather, he made salvation AVAILABLE to everyone. But there is something you must "DO" to receive that salvation.

In Luke 10:35, the rich young ruler came to Jesus and asked, "What must I "do" to inherit eternal life. If he had OBEYED what Jesus told him to "do," he would have been saved. However the bible tells us he went away sorrowful. Why? Because he didn't want to "do" what it was going to take for him to be saved. Being obedient to what God tells you to "do" in his word does not mean you are trusting in your own ability. It's exactly the opposite. You believe what He says and you act upon it.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#19
Here is the difference between "works" and "grace."

(Spurgeon again.)

“Ye must be born again.”
John 3:7


Regeneration is a subject which lies at the very basis of salvation, and we should be very diligent to take heed that we really are “born again,” for there are many who fancy they are, who are not. Be assured that the name of a Christian is not the nature of a Christian; and that being born in a Christian land, and being recognized as professing the Christian religion is of no avail whatever, unless there be something more added to it-the being “born again,” is a matter so mysterious, that human words cannot describe it. “The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.” Nevertheless, it is a change which is known and felt: known by works of holiness, and felt by a gracious experience. This great work is supernatural. It is not an operation which a man performs for himself: a new principle is infused, which works in the heart, renews the soul, and affects the entire man. It is not a change of my name, but a renewal of my nature, so that I am not the man I used to be, but a new man in Christ Jesus. To wash and dress a corpse is a far different thing from making it alive: man can do the one, God alone can do the other. If you have then, been “born again,” your acknowledgment will be, “O Lord Jesus, the everlasting Father, thou art my spiritual Parent; unless thy Spirit had breathed into me the breath of a new, holy, and spiritual life, I had been to this day ‘dead in trespasses and sins.’ My heavenly life is wholly derived from thee, to thee I ascribe it. ‘My life is hid with Christ in God.’ It is no longer I who live, but Christ who liveth in me.” May the Lord enable us to be well assured on this vital point, for to be unregenerate is to be unsaved, unpardoned, without God, and without hope.

Because God gave us new life through his grace, mercy, and from his will, we want to do good works. We are not saved by works. We are saved by God!
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#20
\

Since Paul wrote, "faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God" then under your doctrine would you consider
Saul as being saved prior to his hearing an audible voice that spoke unto him, but seeing no man, while on the road to Damascus?

And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.
Acts 9:7-8


At midday, O king, I saw in the way a light from heaven, above the brightness of the sun, shining round about me and them which journeyed with me. And when we were all fallen to the earth, I heard a voice speaking unto me, and saying in the Hebrew tongue, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.
Acts 26:13-14​


Or does your doctrine consider Saul saved before hearing the audible voice since there is nothing to suggest that Saul didn't believe the Torah, then if there is nothing written in the NT that was already written in the OT, as evident in the non-Pauline gospel writings.

Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead. Luke 16:29-31

If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father. But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause. John 15:24-25

For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words? John 5:46-47

So what is the purpose that man was given faith?
You really could use a reality check on "doctrine." Just because you created your own very-special "gospel," doesn't mean you're the only one saved. It means you think you are saved because you created the grounds and implemented the grounds through delusion.

Which, btw, is why most people to argue with you. Hard to argue a delusion.