Amillennialism

[Ariel82]

Revelation 12:12 ►
Parallel Verses
King James Version
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Darby Bible Translation
Therefore be full of delight, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the earth and to the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great rage, knowing he has a short time.

World English Bible
Therefore rejoice, heavens, and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and to the sea, because the devil has gone down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has but a short time."

Young's Literal Translation
because of this be glad, ye heavens, and those in them who do tabernacle; woe to those inhabiting the land and the sea, because the Devil did go down unto you, having great wrath, having known that he hath little time.'

 

[Ariel82]

Why do you think that demons were in heaven?

I believe demons are spirits that come out of Satan and His fallen angels.

Would you prefer the wording "satanic kingdom" of "kingdoms of darkness"?

 

[Ariel82]

Some folks need to look up the word "literal"

A literal interpretation of Revelation 12 does not give you a Faithful Israel..., you have to know the 12 stars are symbolic of the 12 tribes.

A literal take on Rev 12 gives you A Woman in OUTER SPACE being crowned with the literal sun and standing on the literal moon and giving literal birth to a male child in SPACE.

With a literal DRAGON trying to eat the baby.

YOU do NOT read REVELATION 12 LITERALLY. So stop lying to yourself and others.

You just don't agree on the symbolism or the timeframe.

*********
◄ Revelation 12 ►

1And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: 2And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.

3And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads. 4And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.

 

[trofimus]

Ephesians 6:12 ►
Parallel Verses
King James Version
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Darby Bible Translation
because our struggle is not against blood and flesh, but against principalities, against authorities, against the universal lords of this darkness, against spiritual power of wickedness in the heavenlies.

World English Bible
For our wrestling is not against flesh and blood, but against the principalities, against the powers, against the world's rulers of the darkness of this age, and against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.

Young's Literal Translation
because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh, but with the principalities, with the authorities, with the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, with the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places;

I do not think that Paul is talking about heaven. I do not think that any evil has or had any kind of kingdom in heaven.

The fact that Satan and fallen angels were in heaven does not make them kings in heaven. Satan is a ruler of this world.

 

[trofimus]

I believe demons are spirits that come out of Satan and His fallen angels.

Would you prefer the wording "satanic kingdom" of "kingdoms of darkness"?

OK, maybe... but I think that such kingom is only in a fallen world, not in heaven.

 

[Ariel82]

OK, maybe... but I think that such kingom is only in a fallen world, not in heaven.

Why?

What do you believe about heaven?

I agree the kingdoms of darkness are now only on Earth, but that is because I believe they were kicked out of Heaven by Jesus and His saints in a LITERAL heavenly war.

(i added the literal for the other folks so they would know that I actually believe that many events in Revelation 12 literally happened in the past.)

I also believe if we understand HOW Jesus and His saints did it, we can learn how to stand against the enemy in the present day Earth and CURRENT spiritual battle. (which is literally a battle in the spirit realm happening RIGHT now all around us).

 

[Enoch987]

Yes...can you show it's during this supposed 1000 literal years on Earth and not during the New Heaven and New Earth reign of Jesus?

Revelation 20 shows the Judgement of nations AFTER the 1000 years are mentioned....what is happening during the 1000 years?

People assume it will be peaceful because Satan is supposedly bound during that time...however humanity doesn't need Satan to sin....folks do just fine being selfish without outside temptation....

What we need is God to teach us to do good. We need God to place in us clean hearts.

It is a little difficult to separate the 1000 year under King Jesus from the New Jerusalem. Isaiah 65.

 

[Ariel82]

It is a little difficult to separate the 1000 year under King Jesus from the New Jerusalem. Isaiah 65.

Not really Jesus does it fine via the final White throne judgement when SATAN, Death, Hades, etc get thrown in the eternal fire...revelation 20...current New Covenant age....revelation 21 and 22 New Heaven and New Earth.

 

[Enoch987]

Not really Jesus does it fine via the final White throne judgement when SATAN, Death, Hades, etc get thrown in the eternal fire...revelation 20...current New Covenant age....revelation 21 and 22 New Heaven and New Earth.

search for "reign." for premil, Cor. 4:8, 2 Tim. 2:12, for Amil. 1 Corinthians 15:25,Romans 5:14,17,21. Premil agrees with Amil proof texts for Christ reigning but Amil won't agree with Premil verses for future reign.

 

[Ariel82]

Since you are neither premil or Amil....are you then postmil?

 

[Ariel82]

For those actually interested in the topic I found this lecture series and plan on listening to them.

Note: just because I post an article or sermon doesn't mean I agree 100% with whatever the person says. I post them for study, prayer and examination.

I clearly state what I do and don't believe and freely admit I don't have all the answers. When I get a chance I will do a deeper study in Isaiah and tell you what i learn and what I feel God shows me (probably in a different thread to avoid confusion).

https://www.sermonaudio.com/search....at=series&subsetitem=Seminar+on+Amillenialism

 

[zone]

Ariel! long time no see.
of course it's amil.

that ludicrous proposition that ppl will resume animal sacrifices in a non-existent millennium is debunked a thousand times over (lol)

 

[trofimus]

Why?

What do you believe about heaven?

I agree the kingdoms of darkness are now only on Earth, but that is because I believe they were kicked out of Heaven by Jesus and His saints in a LITERAL heavenly war.

(i added the literal for the other folks so they would know that I actually believe that many events in Revelation 12 literally happened in the past.)

I also believe if we understand HOW Jesus and His saints did it, we can learn how to stand against the enemy in the present day Earth and CURRENT spiritual battle. (which is literally a battle in the spirit realm happening RIGHT now all around us).

Bible only says that Satan and his angels were "kicked out" of heaven. Not that they were kings there.

By heaven I mean the presence of God, His throne.

By spiritual world (where satan, angels and probably other beings are) I mean a part of this created Universe, another dimensions (up to 11 according to science). Not visible to us, but real and more advanced, as 3D is more advanced than 2D.

Demons are desperate beings, stuck somewhere between material and spiritual world. Even Jesus had some kind of mercy for them.