Speaking in tongues?!

[jaybird88]

Your assertion that there is absolutely no evidence that angels communicate between themselves in
any heavenly or angelic language is completely outside your experience and knowledge.
You and I are not qualified to make such an assertion, but Paul the apostle is.
"How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful
for a man to utter."
2Corinthians 12:4

its not outside of our expertise, we have holy scriptures with many example of angels speaking to men and no angel language was required. their messengers, thats there job, to communicate between that place and this place, i dont think the Most High would create them for that specific job and then they fail to do their job because they cant communicate with us, that idea is ludicrous.

As for your other assertion that Jesus never spoke any other "tongues" --
just His own Aramaic language.
What proof have you for this.

because we have many examples of Jesus in prayer, He prayed all the time, and there is not one example of Him praying in an angel language. He also gave many teachings on prayer and again, not once are angel language mentioned.

Given that in the gospels it is often mentioned that Jesus separated himself from his disciples
to pray, and that he was known to pray all night - that may be because he could and did pray
in tongues as all true worshippers baptized in the Holy Spirit [and Jesus was also] can pray in tongues.
Can you pray all night in English? But I can pray in tongues for hours on end especially during a prayer
and fasting period.

Jesus separated Himself to be alone with His Father, Jesus even explains this in a teaching, the prayer is always between the one praying and the Father, not just to hear yourself praying in front of a group.
if one had the faith that Jesus taught they could pray as long as they want.

the berean Jews tested every teaching of Paul against scripture. lets do what they did and test Pauls angel language doctrine. please show me in scripture where this is, remember we cant use Pauls letters as they were not scripture at the time, only the Hebrew bible, you can even use the LXX Apocrypha books as many considered them scripture at that time. i will save you some time, you wont find any examples. this means Pauls teachings should not have checked out or Paul was not teaching an angel language.

 

[DJ2]

Quote anyone who has taken Scripture out of context to justify speaking in tongues. Demonstrate clearly the support for your generalization.

The context of Paul's writings on the physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit were of there nature and proper usage.

Anyone who attempts to use any scripture to prove or justify their belief in the modern day miraculous is taking the scriptures out of context. Paul's writing on tongues was about the nature and use of the gifts. His writing were not meant to prove the existence of gifts. The miraculous proves itself.

This is the mind numbing aspect of these debates. Stop using scripture to prove you have these gifts. Just show your hand or fold.

 

[DJ2]

As for glasses I live in a society where we can purchase spectacles easily enough;
BUT in third world countries where the saints do not have access to optometrists or doctors
they have the necessary miracles

So because people in Australia have access to optometrists the Holy Spirit does not heal them? Does the Holy Spirit do this to keep the Australian optometrists in business? Does Australia not have canes to help people walk with arthritis? Why does the Holy Spirit heal arthritis in a land full of canes but not astigmatism?

 

[Dino246]

The context of Paul's writings on the physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit were of there nature and proper usage.

Anyone who attempts to use any scripture to prove or justify their belief in the modern day miraculous is taking the scriptures out of context. Paul's writing on tongues was about the nature and use of the gifts.

By that logic, anyone quoting "any" Scripture to prove or justify salvation by faith (which, by the way, is a far greater miracle) in this day is taking the Scripture out of context. For that matter, quoting Scripture as relevant for anything today would be taking it out of context.

That is neither sound hermeneutics nor sound reasoning.

 

[DJ2]

By that logic, anyone quoting "any" Scripture to prove or justify salvation by faith (which, by the way, is a far greater miracle) in this day is taking the Scripture out of context. For that matter, quoting Scripture as relevant for anything today would be taking it out of context.

That is neither sound hermeneutics nor sound reasoning.

You are avoiding the issue. Paul's writing about tongues were clear and detailed. The context was of their nature and usage both personally and as a group. There is no context in his writing about its duration, other then its ceasing. Using Paul's rules about its usage or nature as proof that it is happening today is absurd. The scriptures go into detail about the nature and proper usage of manna, can these details be used as evidence of manna falling from heaven today? Of course not, the context does not fit.

The real issue is a lack of physical evidence that is needed to support claims of physical events. Such as the physical evidence that was offered to support the physical claims in the New Testament. This is the naked emperor that no one wants to call out.

 

[KelbyofGod]

In response to the comment questioning/critizing someone's spiritual validity just because they were wearing glasses: There was a time when I both wore glasses and had a back injury. During church (singing portion to be exact) I felt myself being miraculously healed of the back injury (which, of course, I greatly appreciated.) But, I also noticed that my need for glasses wasn't affected. This seemed odd to me so I basically asked God "Why was I able to receive one healing but not the other when you have ability to do both". What he said (paraphrased) was "In this life man will always be presented with a choice to look at the good or the bad; the perceived success or the perceived failure; life or death."
The assumption that a person is weak in one area just because YOU think you see weakness in another is a flawed concept... and it's the same flawed concept that the priests and rulers were using as they mocked Jesus on the cross saying "He saved others, let him save himself" inferring that because Jesus wasn't saving himself from the cross, it must be because he doesn't have the ability to save anyone.

 

[Angela53510]

2010??

That's even before my time. I'm not here to argue, just to discuss a new thread might be appropriate. Most of the posters have left or been banned. So they cannot defend themselves or their posts!

 

[Thimu]

"Pentecost seems to me to have been a miracle of hearing rather than speaking." - you're a genius , i never thought of it that way.

 

[HannahA]

I believe in speaking in tongues
and it's wonderful

 

[Waggles]

The miraculous proves itself.
Stop using scripture to prove you have these gifts. Just show your hand or fold.

Easy peasy...
When I received the indwelling Holy Spirit I spoke out in a new spiritual language given to me
by God for my personal prayer life.
it brings about great results.
Faith
Working of miracles
gifts of healing
knowledge
wisdom
discerning of spirits

the proof is that these signs do follow them that believe and live the Pentecostal gospel obediently.

 

[Waggles]

So because people in Australia have access to optometrists the Holy Spirit does not heal them? Does the Holy Spirit do this to keep the Australian optometrists in business? Does Australia not have canes to help people walk with arthritis? Why does the Holy Spirit heal arthritis in a land full of canes but not astigmatism?

You truly are a grumpy old person. A Jehovah Witness by any chance.
So full of unbelief and always quick with mocking the Holy Spirit.
Jealous that you do not experience what others enjoy? Miracles. Healings. Speaking in tongues.

Your blog is just so unchristian and without love you do not warrant a response.
Proverbs warns us not to argue with a fool.

 

[Waggles]

"Pentecost seems to me to have been a miracle of hearing rather than speaking." - you're a genius , i never thought of it that way.

Yes and no.
The day of Pentecost was the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the 120 assembled.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues,
as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4
The Christian church and the gospel age had now begun.

In regards to the people outside who heard this
6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded,
because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all
these which speak Galilaeans?
8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?
Acts 2:6-8
This is actually the first gift /miracle of interpretation of tongues;
outlined later in 1Corinthians 14:

We still do this every Sunday arvo and Wednesday night at our formal worship meetings
gift of diverse tongues followed by gift of interpretation (up to 3 times max)
gift of prophecy (again no more than 3)
1 Corinthians 14:

 

[DJ2]

Easy peasy...
When I received the indwelling Holy Spirit I spoke out in a new spiritual language given to me
by God for my personal prayer life.
it brings about great results.
Faith
Working of miracles
gifts of healing
knowledge
wisdom
discerning of spirits

the proof is that these signs do follow them that believe and live the Pentecostal gospel obediently.

Easy peasy...
Your lack of any proof cast doubt on your story. An inherent feature of physical supernatural manifestations of the Holy Spirit is their overt nature. A characteristic feature of Pentecostal claims is the lack of such overt evidence.

My discernment easily trumps your obvious bogus claims of supernatural powers.

 

[garee]

Yes and no.
The day of Pentecost was the outpouring of the Holy Spirit upon the 120 assembled.
And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues,
as the Spirit gave them utterance. Acts 2:4
The Christian church and the gospel age had now begun.

The gospel age began when God had favor/grace on Abel by softening his heart but not Cain. His heart remained hard.. Abel is the first mentioned of one of the members of his new chaste virgin bride, the church. Pentecost came to bring reformation.

The key in the above verse is... “as the Spirit gave them utterance”. Not as the speaker or the hearer gave utterance.

They from many nations could understand each other as in having a two way conversation in regard to the gospel according to the interpretation of God. (no outside interpreter ) Men spoke in their native tongue. God interpreted into their own language. If God did not give both the understanding needed to believe God .Then they both should be silent .

Getting out the gospel is a two way street .Not one way.

It’s not I will make a sound and it proves I have the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit gives both persons His understanding and not that of their own selves the fruit of no understanding.

11 But if a person talks in a language andI do not know the meaning of it, I will be like a stranger to him “and” he will be like a stranger to me. 1 Corinthians 14.

Neither understand what it is that God is inquiring . Once you understand that verse everything else lines up. Dismiss that prophecy that provides two individuals the understanding of one Holy Spirit it makes that portion of scripture without effect,.

Howling at the moon is not prophecy. It’s a sign of the rebellious. And neither is falling back or what some call slain in the spirit. There simply is no such things as a sign gift. We continue to walk by faith (the unseen) .

 

[garee]

Easy peasy...
When I received the indwelling Holy Spirit I spoke out in a new spiritual language given to me
by God for my personal prayer life.
it brings about great results.

It does? What's the fruit of not knowing what you are saying? It makes you happy you made a noise as the great results ? ?

 

[CS1]

Hyperbole is an obvious exaggeration. Hyperbole is used in this context to teach an obvious truth to the Jewish minds at Corinth. Another example of hyperbole would be seen in Hebrews 6:4-6.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

not in the context of this topic it is not. Good try though

 

[CS1]

I reckon only those that follow His voice will see that as an example of one hyperbole that Paul was saying about tongues of angels since he did go on to give other examples of hyperbole in making a point about what love is or rather not.

1 Corinthians 13:1Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.[SUP] 2 [/SUP]And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.[SUP] 3 [/SUP]And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

Has Paul removed mountains by faith? No.

Has Paul bestowed all his goods to feed the poor? One could argue it but no, not when he relied on cheerful donations agreed upon as a portion from the bounty collected at church each first day of the week for the ministry he was in as well as for supplying other missionaries in the field.

HAS Paul given up his body to be burned? Not when he is writing that letter to the Corinthians, he has not.

Those who follow a stranger's voice will miss the forest for all the trees in regards to what Paul was really saying here in context to how not having love even after doing all those exaggerated things, that saved believer is nothing, but they love to take things out of context to justify using tongues without interpretation to be used privately. That is why they refuse to see the several hyperbole in the context of what Paul was talking about. All they see is justification to use tongues privately but you would think they would apply it to mean they are talking to angels when they speak in tongues, but they don't.

no not all just see the full context of all three chapters in 1cor 12, 13, and 14 not just a verse here or there . Paul said "For Bid not to speak in Tongues" 1cor 14:39. the full context of 1cor 12,13, and 14 are well seen. The sad thing is both have misused the scriptures to attack the understanding . I have seen those here use examples of devil worship to explain 1cor 12, 13, and 14. they provide no biblical refute, only conjecture and out of context verse here or there . they have to point out the foolishness of those who are immature , ignorant and in error but will not show the biblical truth of any gift of the Holy Spirit . Only in the gift of tongues do they flame fire from their mouth. LOL yet they have issues wit love as described in chapter 13 of 1cor. Keep pressing is and keep praying as the Lord Leads you. many of them think they are intellectually superior to those in here anyway. Hey Even Jesus is wrong to them. God Bless

 

[CS1]

70.27 % Yes the Bible clearly states it


wow I agree it sure does

 

[gotime]

I find it strange that we have an example of the gift of tongues in Acts clearly given by God that clearly is for those who are not yet believers and enables the gospel to be communicated to them.

Then people actually think that Paul is suddenly in chapter 14 introducing some new type of tongues that neither Jesus nor the prophets spoke of.

They use the Corinthians as examples of this supposed different gift that is no where else and forget that Paul is talking to carnal Christians who are ignorant of the gifts as Paul himself stated.

 

[KelbyofGod]

6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded,
because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Acts 2:6-8
This is actually the first gift /miracle of interpretation of tongues;
outlined later in 1Corinthians 14:

I might suggest that it may rather be the first example of diversities of tongues (speaking in different earthly languanges as given directly by the spirit) being done by the disciples...perhaps unknowingly. Because... when a person is speaking in tongues, they don't know what they're saying anyway, they just yielding to the spirit's influence to speak in a language that they don't understand. God can have them switch from French to German to Swahili and it all would sound unintelligible to the speaker (and anyone else who doesn't know those languages). But it would stand out significantly to the person who DOES naturally understand said language.