Rev 17, Who is the Woman? Jerusalem Vs Rome
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The World Mission Society seem to be a Korean church that
believes God is our Mother ??!!
https://wmscog.com/heavenly-mother/god-the-mother/
believes God is our Mother ??!!
https://wmscog.com/heavenly-mother/god-the-mother/
That's not what the scripture states:
Mat 23:35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
You are attempting to make Jesus say "upon Rome may fall the guilt".
(Mat 23:37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
You are attempting to make Jesus say "Rome, Rome, who kills the prophets."
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”
You are attempting to make Peter say "whom Rome crucified".
1 Th 2:15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men,
You are attempting to make Paul say "Rome who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets".
I don't know how you can blatantly modify scripture to suit your own "theological" absurdity with a straight keyboard.
Mat 23:35 so that upon you may fall the guilt of all the righteous blood shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, the son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar.
You are attempting to make Jesus say "upon Rome may fall the guilt".
(Mat 23:37 Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
You are attempting to make Jesus say "Rome, Rome, who kills the prophets."
Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know for certain that God has made Him both Lord and Christ—this Jesus whom you crucified.”
You are attempting to make Peter say "whom Rome crucified".
1 Th 2:15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove us out. They are not pleasing to God, but hostile to all men,
You are attempting to make Paul say "Rome who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets".
I don't know how you can blatantly modify scripture to suit your own "theological" absurdity with a straight keyboard.
And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials,
and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the
judgment of the great whore that sits upon many waters:
Revelation 17:1
G4204 pornē
Feminine of G4205; a strumpet; figuratively an idolater: - harlot, whore.
strumpet = a prostitute
Look up whores and whoredom in the OT and this refers to Israel
being unfaithful to her husband the LORD and playing the harlot
with other gods of their neighbours.
Committing spiritual adultery.
10 And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot,
and subtle of heart.
11 (She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house:
12 Now is she without, now in the streets, and lies in wait at every corner.)
16 I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with
fine linen of Egypt.
17 I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon.
18 Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves
with loves.
19 For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey:
20 He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed.
21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips
she forced him.
22 He goes after her straightway, as an ox goes to the slaughter, or as a fool to
the correction of the stocks;
23 Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hastens to the snare, and knows not that
it is for his life.
24 Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth.
25 Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.
26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have
been slain by her.
27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.
Proverbs 7
and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the
judgment of the great whore that sits upon many waters:
Revelation 17:1
G4204 pornē
Feminine of G4205; a strumpet; figuratively an idolater: - harlot, whore.
strumpet = a prostitute
Look up whores and whoredom in the OT and this refers to Israel
being unfaithful to her husband the LORD and playing the harlot
with other gods of their neighbours.
Committing spiritual adultery.
10 And, behold, there met him a woman with the attire of an harlot,
and subtle of heart.
11 (She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house:
12 Now is she without, now in the streets, and lies in wait at every corner.)
16 I have decked my bed with coverings of tapestry, with carved works, with
fine linen of Egypt.
17 I have perfumed my bed with myrrh, aloes, and cinnamon.
18 Come, let us take our fill of love until the morning: let us solace ourselves
with loves.
19 For the goodman is not at home, he is gone a long journey:
20 He hath taken a bag of money with him, and will come home at the day appointed.
21 With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips
she forced him.
22 He goes after her straightway, as an ox goes to the slaughter, or as a fool to
the correction of the stocks;
23 Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hastens to the snare, and knows not that
it is for his life.
24 Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth.
25 Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.
26 For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have
been slain by her.
27 Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.
Proverbs 7
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And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials,
and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the
judgment of the great whore that sits upon many waters:
and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the
judgment of the great whore that sits upon many waters:
Revelation 17:1compare the charge of being a whore against the true church of God:
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to
one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.
2Corinthians 11:2
That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle,
or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Ephesians 5:27
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
1Timothy 2:5
No I don't think like this Korean church
nor do I worship Mary as the Mother of God in the RCC sense.
Just went and had a look at this website and this Korean church definitely
promoting that God is both God the Father and God the Mother
and Eve is God the Mother and other stuff on creation ....
Seems they have taken it even a step or two past Mary worship of the RCC !!!
nor do I worship Mary as the Mother of God in the RCC sense.
Just went and had a look at this website and this Korean church definitely
promoting that God is both God the Father and God the Mother
and Eve is God the Mother and other stuff on creation ....
Seems they have taken it even a step or two past Mary worship of the RCC !!!
Yep the angel shows John her judgment in Rev. 17:1, then he See's her st upon a scarlet beast Rev 17:3. After he saw that the angel tells him that he would tell him the mystery of the woman AND the beast that carrieth her Rev.17:7 (and other things)...
Then in Rev, 17:8 the beast John "saw" the angel says "is in the bottomless pit" and would ascend out of it. This beast (the one John saw) was before that time but was not at that time(in the bottomless pit) yet is and he is the 8th,Rev.17:11 so the beast that the angel said he would show him in Rev. 17:7 is the 8th and your trying to make sense of it as if you think it's the 7 and so you see it as if it was in the earth then when the angel says it was not.
Then in Rev, 17:8 the beast John "saw" the angel says "is in the bottomless pit" and would ascend out of it. This beast (the one John saw) was before that time but was not at that time(in the bottomless pit) yet is and he is the 8th,Rev.17:11 so the beast that the angel said he would show him in Rev. 17:7 is the 8th and your trying to make sense of it as if you think it's the 7 and so you see it as if it was in the earth then when the angel says it was not.
The woman is far older than the RCC. The RCC is just the present form.
The tower of Babel is where the human souls fell away from Jehovah worship after the cleansing flood. Creation worship had many harlots after that.
She is the incarnation of the mother of harlots. The persecution of Israel is the center of the vision.
But Rome does! Not only the Roman Empire itself but to this present day.
1st, remember that the iron legs of the statue in Dan 2 are the Roman Empire and it's remains until this present time. It shows the nations that rule over the people of Israel until they are restored to Jerusalem, Not the planet, the people of Israel.
2nd, don't forget about the dark ages, middle ages, and more recent times when the RCC murdered the people of Israel. The power over Israel was sustained from the invasion of Israel in 63 bc, until 1967 when Jerusalem was restored to Israel, then the iron toes ended.
In this present time there are 1,285,000,000 RCC catholic world wide, roughly 17% of the worlds population (2015). So the power of the Roman Vatican nation is still significant. Do not underestimate the power of the Antichrist to deceive people so that they cannot find the truth and salvation.
If the beast is Rome (iron legs), then the woman is the city of Rome that she sits on Rev 17:18.
What's a BTG?.......
The tower of Babel is where the human souls fell away from Jehovah worship after the cleansing flood. Creation worship had many harlots after that.
She is the incarnation of the mother of harlots. The persecution of Israel is the center of the vision.
But Rome does! Not only the Roman Empire itself but to this present day.
1st, remember that the iron legs of the statue in Dan 2 are the Roman Empire and it's remains until this present time. It shows the nations that rule over the people of Israel until they are restored to Jerusalem, Not the planet, the people of Israel.
2nd, don't forget about the dark ages, middle ages, and more recent times when the RCC murdered the people of Israel. The power over Israel was sustained from the invasion of Israel in 63 bc, until 1967 when Jerusalem was restored to Israel, then the iron toes ended.
In this present time there are 1,285,000,000 RCC catholic world wide, roughly 17% of the worlds population (2015). So the power of the Roman Vatican nation is still significant. Do not underestimate the power of the Antichrist to deceive people so that they cannot find the truth and salvation.
If the beast is Rome (iron legs), then the woman is the city of Rome that she sits on Rev 17:18.
What's a BTG?.......
Brother Locutus,
These scriptures are all about the dest of Jeru in the 70 ad time period, I agree.
The question is, is it possible, that the Rev 17 woman is Rome?
I would assume from the scriptures that you have offered that you are referring to Rev 17:6 and Rev 18:24.
Rev 17:6, It says the martyrs of Jesus, this shows a select group that is after 33 ad and following. This does not exclude Rome from fitting the description of the woman, as it still could be describing Rome.
Rev 18:24, "In her", the woman is false religion, Caesar worship, worship the creation, Babel. This woman was responsible for all the blood shed. But it doesn't say Jesus, or Abel, and these could be NT prophets and saints, after 70 ad.
------
You are bringing up good points in favor of the woman being Jerusalem. These points are worth keeping in mind when studying these passages.
Thank You!
This is the reason this thread was started, to get some meat on the table! Yum Yum!
These scriptures are all about the dest of Jeru in the 70 ad time period, I agree.
The question is, is it possible, that the Rev 17 woman is Rome?
I would assume from the scriptures that you have offered that you are referring to Rev 17:6 and Rev 18:24.
Rev 17:6, It says the martyrs of Jesus, this shows a select group that is after 33 ad and following. This does not exclude Rome from fitting the description of the woman, as it still could be describing Rome.
Rev 18:24, "In her", the woman is false religion, Caesar worship, worship the creation, Babel. This woman was responsible for all the blood shed. But it doesn't say Jesus, or Abel, and these could be NT prophets and saints, after 70 ad.
------
You are bringing up good points in favor of the woman being Jerusalem. These points are worth keeping in mind when studying these passages.
Thank You!
This is the reason this thread was started, to get some meat on the table! Yum Yum!
The the earliest known use of the term Catholic regarding the church was by Ignatius around 110AD in the sense of the church being universal. It wasnt until around 350AD that catholic was used by Cyril of Jerusalem in his Catechetical Lectures to distinguish it from other churches. In 380AD the Emperor Theodosius, the last Emperor to rule both Eastern and Western halves of the Roman Empire used the term to mean the church we know today and made it the state religion
See Wilkipedia under Roman Catholic Church
The RCC has only been thought of as the Harlot riding the Beast since the reformation. Those who believe this concentrate on the seven hills but fail to explain the second part that identifies seven 'Kings' one which was supposed to be reigning when Revelation was written and the RCC didn't exist. Many believed these to be seven Roman Emperors. The main reason for Roman persecution of Christians was their refusal to worship the Emperor as God. Although Emperor worship started at the death of Julius Caesar it only became compulsory under Nero who erected a 100 foot high statue of himself in Rome and planned to have another one placed in the Jerusalem Temple. Only his death prevented it.
See Wilkipedia under Roman Catholic Church
The RCC has only been thought of as the Harlot riding the Beast since the reformation. Those who believe this concentrate on the seven hills but fail to explain the second part that identifies seven 'Kings' one which was supposed to be reigning when Revelation was written and the RCC didn't exist. Many believed these to be seven Roman Emperors. The main reason for Roman persecution of Christians was their refusal to worship the Emperor as God. Although Emperor worship started at the death of Julius Caesar it only became compulsory under Nero who erected a 100 foot high statue of himself in Rome and planned to have another one placed in the Jerusalem Temple. Only his death prevented it.
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40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: [Roman Empire]
forasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and subdues all things: and as iron
that breaks all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41 And whereas thou saw the feet and toes, part of potters' clay,
and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in
it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou saws the iron mixed
with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the
kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou saw iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle
themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another,
even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Daniel 2:
Here is prophecy concerning the continuation of Roman civilization and
"empire" but it shall be divided thus weakening and fracturing this
new form of the empire of iron.
The first great division in Roman Europe was the division between the
Western and Eastern Roman Empire between Rome and Constantinople.
Then came the schism between Papal Rome and Eastern Orthodox doctrines
Roman versus Byzantium.
This is the two legs and feet of the statue. Division into two parts.
Then comes the Reformation and again there is schisms galore.
Pretty well all of North Europe goes Protestant and there is a North/South
division of Western Europe.
The mixture of clay and iron [10 toes] refers to the history of Europe
which is made up of many nations that spend much of their time warring
against each other.
Europe even today is fractuous and the European Union is hardly
equivalent to the totalitarian rule of the one party system in China.
I think the miry clay and iron is a most truthful description of the
modern nations of Europe and their seed.
forasmuch as iron breaks in pieces and subdues all things: and as iron
that breaks all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.
41 And whereas thou saw the feet and toes, part of potters' clay,
and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in
it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou saws the iron mixed
with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the
kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou saw iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle
themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another,
even as iron is not mixed with clay.
Daniel 2:
Here is prophecy concerning the continuation of Roman civilization and
"empire" but it shall be divided thus weakening and fracturing this
new form of the empire of iron.
The first great division in Roman Europe was the division between the
Western and Eastern Roman Empire between Rome and Constantinople.
Then came the schism between Papal Rome and Eastern Orthodox doctrines
Roman versus Byzantium.
This is the two legs and feet of the statue. Division into two parts.
Then comes the Reformation and again there is schisms galore.
Pretty well all of North Europe goes Protestant and there is a North/South
division of Western Europe.
The mixture of clay and iron [10 toes] refers to the history of Europe
which is made up of many nations that spend much of their time warring
against each other.
Europe even today is fractuous and the European Union is hardly
equivalent to the totalitarian rule of the one party system in China.
I think the miry clay and iron is a most truthful description of the
modern nations of Europe and their seed.
