Jesus as Judge

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Oct 11, 2017
82
0
6
#21
Colossians 1:15 and Colossians 2:9 go beyond representation of the Father. Both the Father and Son are one God in essence/nature. All the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God]. Are you anti-Trinitarian?


What you refer to as "divine essence of God" the Scripture identifies as the wisdom, knowledge and power of God. When it is said that in him(Jesus) dwells all the fullness of Deity, bodily. it means that the fullness of the Spirit of the Father dwelt fully in Jesus. The truth of this is shown in the same book. "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;" (Col 1:19)

It was pleasing to the Father to give His son the fullness of His own Spirit.

And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; (Isa 11:1-2)
Jesus was fully man and fully God (John 1:1-14). Colossians 1:15 (AMP) - He is the exact living image [the essential manifestation] of the unseen God [the visible representation of the invisible], the firstborn [the preeminent one, the sovereign, and the originator] of all creation. Can you say that about mankind? Bearing the image of the heavenly (when we receive our glorified bodies) does not mean we become God.



What it means is that we will share His immortal nature.

"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Peter 1:4)
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,043
13,049
113
58
#22


What you refer to as "divine essence of God" the Scripture identifies as the wisdom, knowledge and power of God. When it is said that in him(Jesus) dwells all the fullness of Deity, bodily. it means that the fullness of the Spirit of the Father dwelt fully in Jesus. The truth of this is shown in the same book. "For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;" (Col 1:19)

It was pleasing to the Father to give His son the fullness of His own Spirit.

And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; (Isa 11:1-2)

What it means is that we will share His immortal nature.

"Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." (2 Peter 1:4)
You are obviously twisting the scriptures. I will ask again. Are you anti-trinitarian?

Which church are you associated with?
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,043
13,049
113
58
#24
There are no divisions in the body of Christ. "Christianity" is full of divisions.
Another dodge. If you can't even answer two simple questions, then you are just wasting my time. The Church, the body of Christ (Colossians 1:18,24) is made up of ALL genuine born again Christians and Christians do not deny the Deity of Christ (John 1:1-14).

There are genuine Christians and there are "nominal" Christians. There are genuine believers and there are make believers.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,043
13,049
113
58
#26
I believe what the Scripture teaches. The God of Jesus is his Father.
Jesus was born of a virgin and was fully man (which explains why God was His Father) yet Jesus was also fully God in essence/nature (John 1:1-14). Having trouble wrapping your finite mind around that?
 
Oct 11, 2017
82
0
6
#27
I'm not arguing who is Jesus' Father
I'm simply repeating the Scripture that says Jesus' Father is also Jesus' GOD
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,043
13,049
113
58
#28
If you can't answer these two simple questions, then I'm moving on.

1. Are you anti-Trinitarian? Do you believe that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God in essence/nature; yet are three distinct persons?
2. Which church are you associated with? (Where you attend)
 
Oct 11, 2017
82
0
6
#29
In other words, the son of God has a God. The Father is the God of the son of God. The one God is therefore the God who is the God of the son.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,043
13,049
113
58
#30
In other words, the son of God has a God. The Father is the God of the son of God. The one God is therefore the God who is the God of the son.
Jesus was fully man and fully God. You are obviously unable to wrap your finite mind around that, which explains much of your confusion. If you can't answer two simple questions and insist on playing games, then I'm done wasting my time here.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,420
12,906
113
#33
If Jesus is God, how is it he himself has a God?
As already pointed out, we are dealing with the Mystery of God. Jesus was (and is) fully God, yet He calls God the Father "My God". And God the Father in turn calls Jesus "God". But at the same time doubting Thomas calls the Risen Christ "My God". Don't look for rational explanations for things which are SUPRA-RATIONAL (above and beyond rational).

That was the mistake and the sin of the Jewish leaders of Jesus'day, as well as the theological liberals of our day. Rationalism began to infect Christian seminaries in Europe since the 18th century, and by the 20th century Modernism (theological liberalism) had taken over the seminaries and mainline churches of the Western world. Both the deity of Christ and the truth about the Trinity were rejected, and that also carried over into the cults.

The truth is that human beings -- even Christians -- will never be able to fully grasp the Mystery of God. That does not mean that we cannot believe that even while Jesus is God, "the Head (Authority) of Christ is God".
 
Mar 19, 2018
108
2
0
#34
If Jesus is God, how is it he himself has a God?
[FONT=&quot]And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]1 Timothy 3:16[/FONT]
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#35
Who judges us? Does Jesus judge us or does God? Who occupies the judgement seat we face when our time on earth is up? Does Jesus sit in it, or does God?

Consider John 5:22 which says, “For the Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son…” Does that mean that God has given up the judgeship to Jesus? Does that nullify passages such as Psalm 143:1-2 which says, “Hear my prayer, O LORD; give ear to my pleas for mercy!
In your faithfulness answer me, in your righteousness! Enter not into judgment with your servant, for no one living is righteous before you?” For if God no longer judges us, then does that mean that we no longer pray to Him for judgement?

We cannot just pick certain passages from the Scriptures without considering all of it. John 1:1 says, “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.” What is the Word but the entire Scriptures? So, to just pick out certain passages without considering the whole, is to try to make sense of the letter ‘r’ of the word ‘scriptures’ without seeing the rest of the letters of that word. To just go by one passage of the Scriptures, then, is to miss the rest of the Scriptures.

The Scriptures appear to support the notion that God, rather than give up His judgeship, judges us through Jesus. Jesus himself in John 5:30 says, “I can do nothing on my own. As I hear, I judge, and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of Him who sent me.” Jesus also says, in John 14:6, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” God has conveyed a judgeship through Jesus, and He has conveyed to us an understanding of Him through Jesus.

If Jesus sits on the judgement seat, he would be judging, then, under God’s Authority and God’s Law. Whoever is on the judgement seat, then, whether it be God, or Jesus, is doing the Will of God.

Consider John 3:16-17 which says, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.” Some may ask, ‘Why does God need someone like Jesus to save the world? Why wouldn’t God save the world Himself?’ After all, He created the heavens and the earth Himself; He didn’t appoint someone to do that for Him, so why should His dealing with us be any different?

When God saw how the world’s people drifted away from Him, with many worshipping other gods or eachother, did He admit to failure by trying another method to draw the people of the world to Him, the method being to send his son Jesus? But God is perfect, so everything He does is out of perfection. So, did He really say to Himself in a figurative sense, ‘The people rejected me, so I will send my son Jesus to clean up the mess?’

Considering that God is perfect, He cannot fail. So, He must have had a motive in commissioning Jesus the job of saving the world. We have to look back to Genesis to see what His motives, or reasons for sending Jesus into the world, might be.
In Genesis God creates Adam and Eve, and He put the Tree of Knowledge among them. Eve, upon temptation from the serpent, offers an apple from the Tree of Knowledge to Adam, who takes a bite out of it. God could have manipulated Eve, the way He hardened the pharaoh’s heart in Exodus, so that Eve doesn’t listen to the serpent, but instead He Lets Eve offer Adam the apple. God could also have manipulated Adam into not taking a bite of the apple, but instead lets Adam bite it. The reasoning, then, is that God created man with a free will, which evolves into a will to discern what is good and evil, what is love and hate, what is war and peace. In so doing He lets Adam and Eve decide what to do.

One can determine from the Scriptures, and from reading John 3:16-17, that in sending Jesus, God is playing to the love that is in us. He gave us free will, and in doing so He gave us the will to love. He could have made all of us love Him as surely as He created the Heavens and the earth, but He instead is keeping our free will in place, leaving the decision to love Him up to us. He has also made it plain that we are not to see or hear Him, so just as He sent angels in the Old testament on His behalf as He remained in the background, He sent Jesus to us, to reason with us as God would have reasoned with us.

If we should find Jesus sitting in the judgement seat, it would be as if God Himself were sitting there since Jesus would appear to us on God’s behalf, and he would do God’s Will.
Jesus IS GOD!
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,043
13,049
113
58
#36
Amen brother! In John 8:58, Jesus declared, "I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM." In response, the Jews take up stones in an attempt to stone Jesus (John 8:59). Why would the Jews want to stone Jesus if He hadn’t said something they believed to be blasphemous, namely, a claim to be God? John repeatedly tells us of the Lord's connection to "I Am". See John: 4:26, 8:24, 8:28, 8:58, and 13:19.

The Apostle Paul tells us that Jesus "..is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by Him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by Him, and for Him: And he is before all things, and by Him all things consist." (Colossians 1:15-17)

Hebrews 1:8 - But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; A scepter of righteousness is the scepter of Your Kingdom.

John 1:1 clearly says - In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and “the Word was God.” John 1:14 says that “And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us”. This clearly indicates that Jesus is God in the flesh.

Colossians 2:9 (NKJV) For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Colossians 2:9 - (Amplified) For in Him all the fullness of Deity (the Godhead) dwells in bodily form [completely expressing the divine essence of God].

Matthew 1:23 - Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call His name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

In John 20:27, Jesus said to Thomas - "Reach your finger here, and look at My hands; and reach your hand here, and put it into My side. Do not be unbelieving, but believing." 28 - And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

*JESUS IS GOD. :)

John 14:28 is a verse that confuses anti-Trinitarians, yet speaking from His humanity, Jesus can say, "the Father is greater than I" (John 14:28) yet speaking from His divinity, Jesus can say, "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30) Jesus was fully man and fully God. This seems to confuse certain people.

*The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God in essence/nature; yet three distinct persons.