Will Some NonChristians (Unbelievers) Get to Heaven?

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RickyZ

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Sep 20, 2012
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The planet earth will remain the planet earth, but everything on its surface will be burned up to make way for the New Earth.

You are quite mistaken about the Lake of Fire. First of all it was created long ago for the Devil and his angels, and secondly it is in "outer darkness" which definitely means not on earth but even outside of space (which is finite).
Another possibility, but where does it say 'only the surface' will be no more, and where do you see the lake of fire prior to the Great White Throne judgment?

Is God not capable of creating another earth and heavens out of nothing, like He did the first time?
 

Deade

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Here is a verse by verse breakdown of Rev. 20.

The Thousand Years

Rev 20:1 “And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.” God sends a cherubim with a symbolic key.

Rev 20:2 “And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,” The angel (cherubim) then locks Satan away for God’s appointed time (actually one thousand years).

Rev 20:3 “And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.” This is stating that the devil is simply a tool to be used again at God’s pleasure.

Rev 20:4 “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” This is a picture of the saints (all believers) ruling with Christ during the reign on earth (See Rev 5:10).

Rev 20:5 “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.” This is a simple statement that is literal: The rest of the dead will live again.

Rev 20:6 “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.” This is restating verse 4 with the saints ruling on earth with Christ. It also says there is no further judgement for these first fruits saints.

The Defeat of Satan

Rev 20:7 “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,” Now we are at the end of the millennial reign and Satan is released for the White Throne Judgement (the little season).

An aside here: I will reserve analysis on verses 8 through 10 until later.

Judgment Before the Great White Throne

Rev 20:11 “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.” This is a picture of this White Throne Judgement.

We are given an example in Isaiah 65:17-25 subtitled “New Heavens and New Earth.” This little season will last one hundred years. As per: Isa. 65:20 “There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.” It says they will not remember their former lives vs. 17. Now, God will distribute the Holy Spirit freely (see vs.24).

Rev 20:12 “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Instead of this being a giant courtroom setting, a judgement can consist of a time period, like during the period of the Judges in our bibles.

Rev 20:13 “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” It goes on in vs. 13 the sea and the grave gave up the dead, and will be judged during this time.

Now we go back and pick up verse eight: Verse seven had just loosed Satan:
Rev 20:8 “And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.” True to his nature, Satan still thinks to defeat God’s plan.

Rev 20:9 “And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.” There are some people so given to evil, they will even reject the HS anointing and side with Satan and be destroyed.

Rev 20:10 “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” Here we see God destroying Satan because He is done using him (see Ezekiel 28:14-19). Note: the “are” was added for clarification. This verse should read “where the beast and false profit were cast.” When you throw humans into fire, they die.

Rev 20:14 “And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.” Because they will no longer be needed, death and the hades (Greek grave) will be eliminated.

Rev 20:15 “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” This is a simple literal statement wrapping it all up. :)
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Here is a verse by verse breakdown of Rev. 20.

The Thousand Years

Rev 20:1 “And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.” God sends a cherubim with a symbolic key.

Rev 20:2 “And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,” The angel (cherubim) then locks Satan away for God’s appointed time (actually one thousand years).

Rev 20:3 “And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.” This is stating that the devil is simply a tool to be used again at God’s pleasure.

Rev 20:4 “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” This is a picture of the saints (all believers) ruling with Christ during the reign on earth (See Rev 5:10).

Rev 20:5 “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.” This is a simple statement that is literal: The rest of the dead will live again.

Rev 20:6 “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.” This is restating verse 4 with the saints ruling on earth with Christ. It also says there is no further judgement for these first fruits saints.

The Defeat of Satan

Rev 20:7 “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,” Now we are at the end of the millennial reign and Satan is released for the White Throne Judgement (the little season).

An aside here: I will reserve analysis on verses 8 through 10 until later.

Judgment Before the Great White Throne

Rev 20:11 “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.” This is a picture of this White Throne Judgement.

We are given an example in Isaiah 65:17-25 subtitled “New Heavens and New Earth.” This little season will last one hundred years. As per: Isa. 65:20 “There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.” It says they will not remember their former lives vs. 17. Now, God will distribute the Holy Spirit freely (see vs.24).

Rev 20:12 “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Instead of this being a giant courtroom setting, a judgement can consist of a time period, like during the period of the Judges in our bibles.

Rev 20:13 “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” It goes on in vs. 13 the sea and the grave gave up the dead, and will be judged during this time.

Now we go back and pick up verse eight: Verse seven had just loosed Satan:
Rev 20:8 “And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.” True to his nature, Satan still thinks to defeat God’s plan.

Rev 20:9 “And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.” There are some people so given to evil, they will even reject the HS anointing and side with Satan and be destroyed.

Rev 20:10 “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” Here we see God destroying Satan because He is done using him (see Ezekiel 28:14-19). Note: the “are” was added for clarification. This verse should read “where the beast and false profit were cast.” When you throw humans into fire, they die.

Rev 20:14 “And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.” Because they will no longer be needed, death and the hades (Greek grave) will be eliminated.

Rev 20:15 “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” This is a simple literal statement wrapping it all up. :)
You skipped verse 11-13 whcih told you who death and hell was.. That is a major problem.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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Here is a verse by verse breakdown of Rev. 20.

The Thousand Years

Rev 20:1 “And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.” God sends a cherubim with a symbolic key.

Rev 20:2 “And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,” The angel (cherubim) then locks Satan away for God’s appointed time (actually one thousand years).

Rev 20:3 “And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.” This is stating that the devil is simply a tool to be used again at God’s pleasure.

Rev 20:4 “And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.” This is a picture of the saints (all believers) ruling with Christ during the reign on earth (See Rev 5:10).

Rev 20:5 “But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.” This is a simple statement that is literal: The rest of the dead will live again.

Rev 20:6 “Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.” This is restating verse 4 with the saints ruling on earth with Christ. It also says there is no further judgement for these first fruits saints.

The Defeat of Satan

Rev 20:7 “And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,” Now we are at the end of the millennial reign and Satan is released for the White Throne Judgement (the little season).

An aside here: I will reserve analysis on verses 8 through 10 until later.

Judgment Before the Great White Throne

Rev 20:11 “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.” This is a picture of this White Throne Judgement.

We are given an example in Isaiah 65:17-25 subtitled “New Heavens and New Earth.” This little season will last one hundred years. As per: Isa. 65:20 “There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.” It says they will not remember their former lives vs. 17. Now, God will distribute the Holy Spirit freely (see vs.24).

Rev 20:12 “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Instead of this being a giant courtroom setting, a judgement can consist of a time period, like during the period of the Judges in our bibles.

Rev 20:13 “And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” It goes on in vs. 13 the sea and the grave gave up the dead, and will be judged during this time.

Now we go back and pick up verse eight: Verse seven had just loosed Satan:
Rev 20:8 “And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.” True to his nature, Satan still thinks to defeat God’s plan.

Rev 20:9 “And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.” There are some people so given to evil, they will even reject the HS anointing and side with Satan and be destroyed.

Rev 20:10 “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” Here we see God destroying Satan because He is done using him (see Ezekiel 28:14-19). Note: the “are” was added for clarification. This verse should read “where the beast and false profit were cast.” When you throw humans into fire, they die.

Rev 20:14 “And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.” Because they will no longer be needed, death and the hades (Greek grave) will be eliminated.

Rev 20:15 “And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.” This is a simple literal statement wrapping it all up. :)
Interesting point on the 100 year time period of the White Throne Judgment. I'll have to dig into that one a bit.

But even Isaiah was talking about the end. And we still don't see the lake of fire until the end.

I think one issue that confuses is that many do not understand how time and eternity interact. The misconception is to assign our time constraints to eternity where God assigns none. Something happening in a particular order here in earth does not necessarily happening the same order in heaven, unless God specifically sets out a time line for it.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Interesting point on the 100 year time period of the White Throne Judgment. I'll have to dig into that one a bit.

But even Isaiah was talking about the end. And we still don't see the lake of fire until the end.

I think one issue that confuses is that many do not understand how time and eternity interact. The misconception is to assign our time constraints to eternity where God assigns none. Something happening in a particular order here in earth does not necessarily happening the same order in heaven, unless God specifically sets out a time line for it.

If we read the passage

Satan is released
He decieves the nations for s time
He is defeated, and then cast to the lake of fire

THEN the great white throne occures.

Satan is not realeased to initiate the great white throne. The great white throne is for those who will be joining Satan in hell.
 

Deade

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You skipped verse 11-13 whcih told you who death and hell was.. That is a major problem.

Rev 20:11
“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.” This is a picture of this White Throne Judgement.

We are given an example in Isaiah 65:17-25 subtitled “New Heavens and New Earth.” This little season will last one hundred years. As per: Isa. 65:20 “There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.” It says they will not remember their former lives vs. 17. Now, God will distribute the Holy Spirit freely (see vs.24).

Rev 20:12 “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Instead of this being a giant courtroom setting, a judgement can consist of a time period, like during the period of the Judges in our bibles.

Rev 20:13
“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” It goes on in vs. 13 the sea and the grave gave up the dead, and will be judged during this time.

You are wrong about a just and merciful God resurrecting people just to kill them again. The statement after Rev. 20:12 I stand by. :cool:
 

Deade

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A side note on Rev. 20:10: “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” Note: the “are” was added for in KJV for clarification. This verse should read “where the beast and false profit were cast.” When you throw humans into fire, they die.

Here we see God destroying Satan because He is done using him (see Ezekiel 28:14-19). Eze. 28:14: "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire." That sets up identity. Eze. 28:18,19: "Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee, it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all them that behold thee. All they that know thee among the people shall be astonished at thee: thou shalt be a terror, and never shalt thou be any more."

The phrase that says "shall be tormented .. forever" must be something like a memorial (filmed?). Same as the statements of the undying maggot and unquenchable fire forever. Mark 9:44: "Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched."
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest

Rev 20:11
“And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.” This is a picture of this White Throne Judgement.

We are given an example in Isaiah 65:17-25 subtitled “New Heavens and New Earth.” This little season will last one hundred years. As per: Isa. 65:20 “There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.” It says they will not remember their former lives vs. 17. Now, God will distribute the Holy Spirit freely (see vs.24).

Rev 20:12 “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” Instead of this being a giant courtroom setting, a judgement can consist of a time period, like during the period of the Judges in our bibles.

Rev 20:13
“And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.” It goes on in vs. 13 the sea and the grave gave up the dead, and will be judged during this time.

You are wrong about a just and merciful God resurrecting people just to kill them again. The statement after Rev. 20:12 I stand by. :cool:

You still missed the point. Your taking verses out of context.

The verses you just pointed to shows who is there

1. Vs 11 - No one is able to flea from it
2. Vs 12 - Dead (both small and great)
3. Vs 13 - sea GAVE up the dead, and DEATH and HADES (Hell) DELIEVERED them
4. (This time you left out vs 14, where it says DEATH and HADEs(all those who are here) were CAST into the lakeof fire.

And your wrong, No one is ressurectedd here, They are DELIEVERED to God, (vs 13) they are GIVEN up by the earth. (Vs 11) They are their BECAUSE they where not ressurected by God. They were there because they were no written in the book of life. They were not written because they rejected the great and powerfull gift of redemption that God offered them, namely Eternal life. They were never born again, that is why they are said to be dead.

A child of God has passed from death to life, He is not deaqd in tresspaseses and sin, he is alive IN christ. he is a living being, even though his body shall die, he shall live. A spaul said to be absent from the body is to be present wiht the lord. A child of God is not delivered to God. They have been redeemed by God.
 

Deade

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Originally Posted by eternally-gratefull :And your wrong, No one is ressurectedd here, They are DELIEVERED to God, (vs 13) they are GIVEN up by the earth. (Vs 11) They are their BECAUSE they where not ressurected by God.
Pardon me? The sea and the grave delivered up the dead. By anyone's terms that is a resurrection. Why wouldn't God just pass judgement on these people and leave them dead. Resurrect them just to kill them again, so sorry, it just doesn't make sense.

What about the people: babies, mentally ill and those that never heard the name of Jesus. They rejected nothing.
:cool:
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
Pardon me? The sea and the grave delivered up the dead. By anyone's terms that is a resurrection. Why wouldn't God just pass judgement on these people and leave them dead. Resurrect them just to kill them again, so sorry, it just doesn't make sense.

What about the people: babies, mentally ill and those that never heard the name of Jesus. They rejected nothing.
:cool:

We are told we are ressurected BY God. And the only people who have been given this promise are true believers in christ

jesus said in john 6, that it was the will of God thatr whoever was given to him should be risen up on the last day, And that only those who believe in him are given eternal life, and will be risen on the last day,

Jesus said he is the ressurection and he is the life, he who believes in me, though he may be die, even though he shall be alive,

The sea giving up the dead in not a ressurection. It is passing from one death to the second


what about those people? I never said they would be Delivered to God now did I? A person who can not understand God because he is not mentally able has not rejected God. So your point is invalid

A believer will be judged, at the BEMA seat judging, (1 cor 3) where they to will be tried each one for their work. Although in this judgment, they will be judged for rewards,. And even if all their work is burnt up. They will suyffer loss. But as Pul said, they will still be saved.

You have the judments messed up. One is a trial, where they are already guilty and it is a formality (no believer will be here, because they have already been redeemed)

One is a reward ceremony, where people are rewarded for their work here on earth (or lack of) No unbeliever will be here, because they have never been born again, and offered the oportunity to work to earn rewards. They remained in a lost state


 

slave

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Mar 20, 2015
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You still missed the point. Your taking verses out of context.

The verses you just pointed to shows who is there

1. Vs 11 - No one is able to flea from it
2. Vs 12 - Dead (both small and great)
3. Vs 13 - sea GAVE up the dead, and DEATH and HADES (Hell) DELIEVERED them
4. (This time you left out vs 14, where it says DEATH and HADEs(all those who are here) were CAST into the lakeof fire.

And your wrong, No one is ressurectedd here, They are DELIEVERED to God, (vs 13) they are GIVEN up by the earth. (Vs 11) They are their BECAUSE they where not ressurected by God. They were there because they were no written in the book of life. They were not written because they rejected the great and powerfull gift of redemption that God offered them, namely Eternal life. They were never born again, that is why they are said to be dead.

A child of God has passed from death to life, He is not deaqd in tresspaseses and sin, he is alive IN christ. he is a living being, even though his body shall die, he shall live. A spaul said to be absent from the body is to be present wiht the lord. A child of God is not delivered to God. They have been redeemed by God.
Your Scripture references in Revelations 20:11-13 and even thru 15 show another picture than what you describe: Now comes the final judgment. God, the Judge, is on his great white throne which symbolizes his unapproachable purity.

It may be that some will find a problem here. The regular picture of the New Testament is that Jesus Christ is judge. (John 5:22) represents Jesus as saying: "The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son." In the Parable of the Sheep and Goats it is the glorified Christ who is the judge (Matthew 25:31-46). In Paul's speech at Athens it is said that God has appointed a day in which he will judge the world by Jesus (Acts 17:31). In (2 Timothy 4:1) Jesus is the one who is about to judge the living and the dead.

There are two answers to this apparent difficulty:

First, the unity of the Father and the Son is such that there is no difficulty in ascribing the action of the one to the other. That is in fact what Paul does. In (Romans 14:10) he writes: "We shall all stand before the judgment seat of God." But in (2 Corinthians 5:10) he writes: "We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ."

Second, it may be that the real reason why God is the judge in John's Revelation is that the whole background of the book is Jewish; to a Jew, even when he became a Christian, God stood unique; and it would seem natural to him that God should be judge.

As John tells the story, the judgment begins with the passing away of this present world; earth and sky flee from his presence. John is thinking in pictures which are very familiar in the Old Testament. God laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of his hands. None the less it is still true that "they will perish ... they will all wear out like a garment; thou changest them like raiment, and they pass away" (Psalms102:25-27). "The heavens will vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment" (Isaiah 51:6). "Heaven and earth will pass away" (Mark 13:31). "The heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up" (2 Peter 3:10). The new man in Christ must have a new world in Christ.

Now follows the judgment of mankind. It is the judgment of great and small. There is none so great as to escape the judgment of God, and none so unimportant as to fail to win his vindication.

Two kinds of book are mentioned. The first contains the records of the deeds of men. This is a common idea in Scripture. "The court sat in judgment," says Daniel, "and the books were opened" (Daniel 7:10). When the present age passes away, the books will be opened before the face of the firmament, and all shall see together (Ezra 6:20).

The idea is simply that a record of all men's deeds is kept by God. The symbolism is that all through life we are writing our own destiny; it is not so much that God judges a man as that a man writes his own judgment.

The second book is the Book of Life. This, too, occurs often in Scripture. Moses is willing to be blotted out of the Book of Life if it will save the people (Exodus 32:32). It is the prayer of the Psalmist that the wicked will be blotted out of the Book of the Living and not written with the righteous (Psalms69:28). Isaiah speaks of those who are written among the living (Isaiah 4:3). Paul speaks of his fellow-laborers whose names are in the Book of Life (Philippians 4:3). It is the promise of the Risen Christ to the Church at Sardis that the name of him who overcomes will not be blotted out of the Book of Life (Revelations 3:5). Those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are given over to destruction (Revelations 13:8). The idea behind this is that every ruler had a roll-book of living citizens under his control; and, of course, when a man died, his name was removed from the roll. Those whose names are in the Book of Life are those who are living, active citizens of the kingdom of God.

At the time of judgment it is said that the sea will give up its dead. The point is twofold:

First, in the ancient world burial was all important; if a man did not obtain burial, his spirit would wander, homeless, neither in earth nor in heaven. And, of course, those who died at sea could never be buried. John means that even such as these will appear before the judgment seat of God. Second, (H. B. Swete) puts the matter in a more general form. "The accidents of death," he says, "will not prevent any from appearing before the judge." No matter how a man dies, he will not escape his punishment nor lose his reward.

Finally, Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire. As (H. B. Swete) puts it, these voracious monsters who have themselves devoured so many are in the end themselves destroyed. In the judgment those who are not in the Book of Life are condemned to the lake of fire with the Devil, their master, but for those whose names are in the Book of Life, death is for ever vanquished.
 
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Is it possible that someone who is not believing in Jesus Christ could die and get to heaven? Explain your answer
If someone has sufficient information and reject Jesus Christ,they cannot be saved.

If someone never heard the word of God,or not sufficiently,they can make it to dwell in heaven after the millennial reign of Christ.

Creation testifies that there is a God,and of His attributes,which one of them is love,for He provided food,and the means to make clothing,and shelter,so the world is without excuse,which is the universal law that covers the whole history of mankind whether they heard the word of God or not,and is the 2 greatest commandments love God,and love people,which is the only way a Christian can make it to heaven.

Our conscience bears record of what is right and wrong.

Jesus will judge the whole according to how they lived on earth by their belief in a higher power,their love of people,and their conscience.

If they met the standard of love God,and love people,they will be with God the same as a Christian who also met the same standard of love God,and love people,and since they do not have the word of God they need to keep a repentant heart to ask for forgiveness in what they lack,and main thing is to repent of their sins while on earth and keep that attitude until death.

God is a fair God and will not condemn people that never heard the truth,but if they believed in a higher power that created all things,and loved people,and asked this higher power for forgiveness if anything is amiss then they should be able to dwell with God after the millennial reign of Christ.

They cannot be with Jesus now,and in heaven,and be in the millennial reign of Christ,but if they followed this higher power,and loved people working no ill towards them,and asked God for forgiveness if anything is amiss they should be able to dwell with God.

Act 8:27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
Act 8:28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
Act 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
Act 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
Act 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Act 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
Act 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
Act 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

The Ethiopian eunuch heard of Jesus Christ sufficiently so he was accountable.

If we say Jesus is Savior,believe on Him and be saved,and if not be damned,will that be enough information for them to draw a conclusion that it could be true and they are accountable,or do we have to give them more information.

We cannot go around and say believe on Jesus and that is it,for they will say who is Jesus and why should I believe on Him,for they have to know the reason why for them to be accountable,and the Bible tells us the reason why we have to believe on Him.

Does the Pope believe if a person does the will of God on earth they are saved,even if they do not confess Christ.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Your Scripture references in Revelations 20:11-13 and even thru 15 show another picture than what you describe: Now comes the final judgment. God, the Judge, is on his great white throne which symbolizes his unapproachable purity.

It may be that some will find a problem here. The regular picture of the New Testament is that Jesus Christ is judge. (John 5:22) represents Jesus as saying: "The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son." In the Parable of the Sheep and Goats it is the glorified Christ who is the judge (Matthew 25:31-46). In Paul's speech at Athens it is said that God has appointed a day in which he will judge the world by Jesus (Acts 17:31). In (2 Timothy 4:1) Jesus is the one who is about to judge the living and the dead.

There are two answers to this apparent difficulty:

First, the unity of the Father and the Son is such that there is no difficulty in ascribing the action of the one to the other. That is in fact what Paul does. In (Romans 14:10) he writes: "We shall all stand before the judgment seat of God." But in (2 Corinthians 5:10) he writes: "We must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ."

Second, it may be that the real reason why God is the judge in John's Revelation is that the whole background of the book is Jewish; to a Jew, even when he became a Christian, God stood unique; and it would seem natural to him that God should be judge.

As John tells the story, the judgment begins with the passing away of this present world; earth and sky flee from his presence. John is thinking in pictures which are very familiar in the Old Testament. God laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of his hands. None the less it is still true that "they will perish ... they will all wear out like a garment; thou changest them like raiment, and they pass away" (Psalms102:25-27). "The heavens will vanish like smoke, the earth will wear out like a garment" (Isaiah 51:6). "Heaven and earth will pass away" (Mark 13:31). "The heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up" (2 Peter 3:10). The new man in Christ must have a new world in Christ.

Now follows the judgment of mankind. It is the judgment of great and small. There is none so great as to escape the judgment of God, and none so unimportant as to fail to win his vindication.

Two kinds of book are mentioned. The first contains the records of the deeds of men. This is a common idea in Scripture. "The court sat in judgment," says Daniel, "and the books were opened" (Daniel 7:10). When the present age passes away, the books will be opened before the face of the firmament, and all shall see together (Ezra 6:20).

The idea is simply that a record of all men's deeds is kept by God. The symbolism is that all through life we are writing our own destiny; it is not so much that God judges a man as that a man writes his own judgment.

The second book is the Book of Life. This, too, occurs often in Scripture. Moses is willing to be blotted out of the Book of Life if it will save the people (Exodus 32:32). It is the prayer of the Psalmist that the wicked will be blotted out of the Book of the Living and not written with the righteous (Psalms69:28). Isaiah speaks of those who are written among the living (Isaiah 4:3). Paul speaks of his fellow-laborers whose names are in the Book of Life (Philippians 4:3). It is the promise of the Risen Christ to the Church at Sardis that the name of him who overcomes will not be blotted out of the Book of Life (Revelations 3:5). Those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are given over to destruction (Revelations 13:8). The idea behind this is that every ruler had a roll-book of living citizens under his control; and, of course, when a man died, his name was removed from the roll. Those whose names are in the Book of Life are those who are living, active citizens of the kingdom of God.

At the time of judgment it is said that the sea will give up its dead. The point is twofold:

First, in the ancient world burial was all important; if a man did not obtain burial, his spirit would wander, homeless, neither in earth nor in heaven. And, of course, those who died at sea could never be buried. John means that even such as these will appear before the judgment seat of God. Second, (H. B. Swete) puts the matter in a more general form. "The accidents of death," he says, "will not prevent any from appearing before the judge." No matter how a man dies, he will not escape his punishment nor lose his reward.

Finally, Death and Hades are thrown into the lake of fire. As (H. B. Swete) puts it, these voracious monsters who have themselves devoured so many are in the end themselves destroyed. In the judgment those who are not in the Book of Life are condemned to the lake of fire with the Devil, their master, but for those whose names are in the Book of Life, death is for ever vanquished.
There are two judgments,

1. The bema seat (1 cor 3) given to all children of God. Each ones work is judged,. if the work endures,. They will recieve reward., if it does not endure he will suffer loss. Even though, he himself will still be saved,. Even though as though through fire

2. The great white throne. No believer will be present, they have been redeemed from this judgement based on the cross. They have been justified, they have been made alive, because their penalty has been removed, this judgment is set aside for whose who are dead. They will be delievered to God (not ressurected by God) for judgment. No one who is at this judgmnet will recieve any reward. Or suffer any loss yet satill be saved, All who are here will be cast into the eternal fire because their names are missing from the book of life.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
If someone has sufficient information and reject Jesus Christ,they cannot be saved.

If someone never heard the word of God,or not sufficiently,they can make it to dwell in heaven after the millennial reign of Christ.

Creation testifies that there is a God,and of His attributes,which one of them is love,for He provided food,and the means to make clothing,and shelter,so the world is without excuse,which is the universal law that covers the whole history of mankind whether they heard the word of God or not,and is the 2 greatest commandments love God,and love people,which is the only way a Christian can make it to heaven.

Our conscience bears record of what is right and wrong.

Jesus will judge the whole according to how they lived on earth by their belief in a higher power,their love of people,and their conscience.

If they met the standard of love God,and love people,they will be with God the same as a Christian who also met the same standard of love God,and love people,and since they do not have the word of God they need to keep a repentant heart to ask for forgiveness in what they lack,and main thing is to repent of their sins while on earth and keep that attitude until death.

God is a fair God and will not condemn people that never heard the truth,but if they believed in a higher power that created all things,and loved people,and asked this higher power for forgiveness if anything is amiss then they should be able to dwell with God after the millennial reign of Christ.

They cannot be with Jesus now,and in heaven,and be in the millennial reign of Christ,but if they followed this higher power,and loved people working no ill towards them,and asked God for forgiveness if anything is amiss they should be able to dwell with God.

Act 8:27 And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
Act 8:28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
Act 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
Act 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
Act 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
Act 8:32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
Act 8:33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
Act 8:34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
Act 8:35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Act 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Act 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

The Ethiopian eunuch heard of Jesus Christ sufficiently so he was accountable.

If we say Jesus is Savior,believe on Him and be saved,and if not be damned,will that be enough information for them to draw a conclusion that it could be true and they are accountable,or do we have to give them more information.

We cannot go around and say believe on Jesus and that is it,for they will say who is Jesus and why should I believe on Him,for they have to know the reason why for them to be accountable,and the Bible tells us the reason why we have to believe on Him.

Does the Pope believe if a person does the will of God on earth they are saved,even if they do not confess Christ.

Romans 1 says no man has excuse, they not only Know who God is, they know they are rightely judged because of sin.
 
Apr 15, 2017
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The planet earth will remain the planet earth, but everything on its surface will be burned up to make way for the New Earth.

You are quite mistaken about the Lake of Fire. First of all it was created long ago for the Devil and his angels, and secondly it is in "outer darkness" which definitely means not on earth but even outside of space (which is finite).
Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

Jesus went away to prepare a place for the saints,which is the final destination of the saints,so it is not of this earth.

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
2Pe 3:13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

God will create a new heaven and a new earth,and the former heaven and earth shall be on fire and be dissolved for they are associated with sin and rebellion,and all sin must be purged with fire,and the new heaven and earth will be a place wherein dwells righteousness,for it will be a place where sin has never been and sin will never be,where the former heaven has been tainted by Lucifer and the fallen angels when they rebelled,and the earth tainted with sin by rebellious people,so they must pass away.

Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

The first heaven and earth passed away,and the former things have passed away,and Jesus makes all things new.

The earth and heaven have been tainted with sin,and cannot be redone,or refurbished,but must completely pass away,and sin and rebellion has been on earth,and the new heaven and the new earth is a place where sin has never been and sin will never be,for all things are new.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

When the saints and angels are at the New Jerusalem this earth and heaven shall not be remembered,nor come to mind,for they are associated with sin and rebellion,and the saints and angels will remember nothing prior to the New Jerusalem,but will feel as if they have always been there and nowhere else.

For the saints and angels to remember this earth and heaven they would have to have the knowledge of sin and rebellion that occurred there which God does not want them to know,but they will only know the ways of the Lord and that is it.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

Jesus said until heaven and earth pass away not one jot or tittle shall pass from the law until all is fulfilled,and when Jesus fulfills the role of King on earth in the millennial reign of Christ then the law has been fulfilled,and heaven and earth shall pass away and be no more.

What would a surface cleaning do to earth that has been tainted with sin,but she must completely pass away.

Psa 63:9 But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.

Psa 55:15 Let death seize upon them, and let them go down quick into hell: for wickedness is in their dwellings, and among them.

Pro 15:24 The way of life is above to the wise, that he may depart from hell beneath.

Amo 9:2 Though they dig into hell, thence shall mine hand take them; though they climb up to heaven, thence will I bring them down.

Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Death and hell is below in the lower parts of the earth.

Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Death and hell were cast in to the lake of fire which means the whole earth shall go in to the lake of fire.

This heaven and earth will be no more one day and will be dissolved like alka seltzer in water,and there will be a new heaven and a new earth.
 

slave

Senior Member
Mar 20, 2015
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There are two judgments,

1. The bema seat (1 cor 3) given to all children of God. Each ones work is judged,. if the work endures,. They will recieve reward., if it does not endure he will suffer loss. Even though, he himself will still be saved,. Even though as though through fire

2. The great white throne. No believer will be present, they have been redeemed from this judgement based on the cross. They have been justified, they have been made alive, because their penalty has been removed, this judgment is set aside for whose who are dead. They will be delievered to God (not ressurected by God) for judgment. No one who is at this judgmnet will recieve any reward. Or suffer any loss yet satill be saved, All who are here will be cast into the eternal fire because their names are missing from the book of life.
That is not what Scripture says: (Heb. 9:27) - even Christians face judgement - But - Yes there is Eternal Security in Jesus Christ, But outside of Christ, there is no promise. Continual sinning will result in saying no to Christ as Lord of your life. Despite you saying you believe you are to change towards God behaviorally, the issue is who is in charge of that? You or Christ in you? It must be Christ in you and not you in Christ! For then truly you will change accordingly to His will.

Can you lose your relationship with Christ? Certainly - by concerted effort to do so by continual sinning and not being obedient to Christ.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
That is not what Scripture says: (Heb. 9:27) - even Christians face judgement - But - Yes there is Eternal Security in Jesus Christ, But outside of Christ, there is no promise. Continual sinning will result in saying no to Christ as Lord of your life. Despite you saying you believe you are to change towards God behaviorally, the issue is who is in charge of that? You or Christ in you? It must be Christ in you and not you in Christ! For then truly you will change accordingly to His will.

Can you lose your relationship with Christ? Certainly - by concerted effort to do so by continual sinning and not being obedient to Christ.
The bible says a christian can not continue in sin becauise they have been born of G0d, whoever continues in sin has nbever seen God or known him.

For this reason NO ONE can lose salvation by continuing in sin, because no christian WILL DO SO.


No christian will face judgment which will determine if they go to hell or not. That penalty was paid on the cross.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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1. Death and hades are DELIEVERED to christ for judgment
2. Death and Haded are judged
3. Death and Hades are found guilty and cast into hell. (Not written in the book of life)
This should be properly clarified. Death and Hades have been personified in Revelation, but what does it actually mean when the Bible says that Death and Hades were cast into the Lake of Fire?

Death -- the enemy of mankind -- will be abolished from the earth at that point. There will be no more death in the New Earth. Hades -- the abode of the unsaved dead (souls and spirit) -- will also be abolished at that point. Why? Because there will be no sin or sinners once the New Heaven and the New Earth come into existence.

It was never God's intention to allow sin and its consequence death to exist on earth forever. So they must be totally eradicated from the earth. The Devil, the Beast, the False Prophet, all the evil angels, demons, the unbelieving, the ungodly, the wicked, the depraved, will all be in the Lake of Fire for eternity. And the Lake of Fire -- Hell -- is in "outer darkness" -- not somewhere in the the heart of the earth. So after all the evildoers are banished for eternity and the earth is literally burned up with supernatural fire, there will be a clean, pure, righteous earth and sin will be totally eradicated. Thus God says "Behold, I make all things new".
 

Deade

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Joh 14:2 In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. These mansions are estates not literal houses. I want to design my own.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. Again, in the Kingdom on earth (Rev. 5:10).

Jesus went away to prepare a place for the saints,which is the final destination of the saints,so it is not of this earth. So it does not say New Jerusalem does not come down in Rev. 21 and Isa. 65.

Heaven is where God is: Rev 21:3: "And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God."


Death and hell were cast in to the lake of fire which means the whole earth shall go in to the lake of fire. Baloney.

This heaven and earth will be no more one day and will be dissolved like alka seltzer in water,and there will be a new heaven and a new earth.
​You had better go back to the drawing board and start over.
 

mcubed

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2013
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NO! All 66 Books say they won't. What would you think other than the Bible, please explain....