WHY POLISH THE BRASS ON A SINKING SHIP?

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tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#1
Dec 1, 2015
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#1
The unbiblical idea of ''Spirituality''' is that the truly ''Spiritual'' man is the person who is sort of ''non-physical''who doesn't get involved in ''earthly'' things, who doesn't work very much or think very hard, and spends most of his time meditating about how he'd rather be in heaven. As long as he is on earth though, he has one main duty in life. Get stepped on for Jesus. The ''Spiritual'' man, in this view, is a wimp. A loser. But at least he's a good loser.

The teaching of the bible is very different. When the Bible uses the term Spiritual, it is generally speaking of the Holy Spirit
To be Spiritual is to be guided and motivated by the Holy Spirit. It means obeying his commands as recorded in the Scriptures. The Spiritual man is not someone who floats in midair and hears eerie voices. The Spiritual man is the man who does what the Bible says (Rom 10:9-10) This means, therefore, that we are supposed to get involved in life. God wants us to apply Christian standards everywhere, in every area. Spirituality does not mean retreat and withdrawal from life. It means dominion.

From Paradise Restored by David Chilton

This book and others by the Author can be downloaded free on the internet in PDF format

The title of this thread comes from a saying David Chilton repeats in his book and I find it sums up an attitude that
is found on this site and elsewhere. The attitude is The world is in a mess but don't worry about it Christ is coming back
next week, next month or next year just hang on that little bit longer.

This thread is set up as a way of discussing our attitude as to how we should view the world today.
 
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Ariel82

Guest
#3
#3
You don't polish the brass, you grab the kids and place them in life boats.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#4
#4
Spirituality and holiness are the two most misunderstood words in the Bible......good post:rolleyes:
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#6
Feb 10, 2017
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#6
Ariel82 said:
You don't polish the brass, you grab the kids and place them in life boats.
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While I don't agree with Chilton's ideas totally this is the kind of attitude he's speaking against.
 
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garee

Banned
#7
Mar 28, 2016
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#7
I think it’s important as to how we use the metaphors defined by scripture in order to hear God aright. There is differences that can be important when looking for the spiritual meaning hid in parable... Like his use of brass compared to how the scripture uses brass. Scripture already has a assigned meaning to the word . In that way we should be careful to look for the spiritual meanings in those parables.

Brass like gold and iron are used in ceremonial laws as shadows of the things to come . The whole tabernacle was used in that way to preach the gospel in respect to the suffering of Christ beforehand.

Misusing the spiritual application a person misses the intent to why it was given in the first place . Not that we cannot use metaphor in our own poetic language . My wife seems to speak in parable but sometimes it can be confusing when someone uses a word in a different way

Everything outside of the tent was brass which represents the things for earth that speaks of the judgment of Christ . Sort of like the letter of the law that kills while those things hid in the tent like gold represent heaven not seen to represent the spirit of the word that heals.

I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron...:Isaiah 45

Exodus 27:3 And thou shalt make his pans to receive his ashes, and his shovels, and his basons, and his fleshhooks, and his firepans: all the vessels thereof thou shalt make of brass.

Like the brass serpent used to signify judgement . Those who missed the spiritual application made it in an idol image as a way of worshipping the thing seen and not what it pointed to as a shadow of the good things to come , God had them grind it up into a powder and eat it to indicate twice dead .

The first death that all are part of and second death as those who do not have a new spirit and therefore will not be raised to new eternal life on the last day
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#8
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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#8
Ariel82 said:
Is this the book?

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...kQ5OUBCH4wBw&usg=AOvVaw3CAUT-4GWJ9nygnewkPdJb
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Yes it is. It was written as a sort of introduction to his mammoth commentary on Revelation titled Days of Vengence which is also available as a free Download. Another work on the same theme is The Great Tribulation which again is available free.

I don't agree with everything he says but he does bring out some interesting themes not usually considered by many Authors and he certainly knew his Bible. Sadly he died of Heart failure following a stroke in 1997 at the relatively young age of 45
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#9
#9
To be Spiritual is to be guided and motivated by the Holy Spirit. It means obeying his commands as recorded in the Scriptures. The Spiritual man is not someone who floats in midair and hears eerie voices. The Spiritual man is the man who does what the Bible says (Rom 10:9-10) This means, therefore, that we are supposed to get involved in life. God wants us to apply Christian standards everywhere, in every area. Spirituality does not mean retreat and withdrawal from life. It means dominion.
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I can basically agree with the above...but what are you saying with regards to the use of the word 'dominion'...I'm asking because I am familiar with how that word is being used by the NAR movement, but not sure if you agree with that or have another thought assigned to it?

you are absolutely right in saying spirituality does not mean retreat from life
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#10
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
1,040
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#10
garee said:
I think it’s important as to how we use the metaphors defined by scripture in order to hear God aright. There is differences that can be important when looking for the spiritual meaning hid in parable... Like his use of brass compared to how the scripture uses brass. Scripture already has a assigned meaning to the word . In that way we should be careful to look for the spiritual meanings in those parables.

Brass like gold and iron are used in ceremonial laws as shadows of the things to come . The whole tabernacle was used in that way to preach the gospel in respect to the suffering of Christ beforehand.

Misusing the spiritual application a person misses the intent to why it was given in the first place . Not that we cannot use metaphor in our own poetic language . My wife seems to speak in parable but sometimes it can be confusing when someone uses a word in a different way

Everything outside of the tent was brass which represents the things for earth that speaks of the judgment of Christ . Sort of like the letter of the law that kills while those things hid in the tent like gold represent heaven not seen to represent the spirit of the word that heals.

I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron...:Isaiah 45

Exodus 27:3 And thou shalt make his pans to receive his ashes, and his shovels, and his basons, and his fleshhooks, and his firepans: all the vessels thereof thou shalt make of brass.

Like the brass serpent used to signify judgement . Those who missed the spiritual application made it in an idol image as a way of worshipping the thing seen and not what it pointed to as a shadow of the good things to come , God had them grind it up into a powder and eat it to indicate twice dead .

The first death that all are part of and second death as those who do not have a new spirit and therefore will not be raised to new eternal life on the last day
Click to expand...
I think you have lost it with this one. The whole point of the expression is that people who use it are saying is that it is a waste of time trying to make a difference for Christ in the world because it is thought to be all coming to an end, usually well within their lifetimes. It has nothing to do with Temple shovels, basins et al.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#12
#12
To be Spiritual is to be guided and motivated by the Holy Spirit. It means obeying his commands as recorded in the Scriptures. The Spiritual man is not someone who floats in midair and hears eerie voices. The Spiritual man is the man who does what the Bible says (Rom 10:9-10) This means, therefore, that we are supposed to get involved in life. God wants us to apply Christian standards everywhere, in every area. Spirituality does not mean retreat and withdrawal from life. It means dominion.

I can basically agree with the above...but what are you saying with regards to the use of the word 'dominion'...I'm asking because I am familiar with how that word is being used by the NAR movement, but not sure if you agree with that or have another thought assigned to it?

you are absolutely right in saying spirituality does not mean retreat from life
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any reason you choose not to answer?

I know you saw the post because you wrote an answer to someone after I posted

simple question...don't have a simple answer?
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#14
#14
Nehemiah6 said:
This book is about Dominion Theology which is a false Gospel.
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oh finally

I'll take your word for it then

so I agreed up to that word then

guess that was the kicker :rolleyes:

actually though, that places a difference of understanding on all that he said since NAR teaches what they do for a physical dominion and have produced the prophets and teachers that say so

thanks Nehemiah..the crickets were getting mighty loud in here anyway
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#15
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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#15
7seasrekeyed said:
I can basically agree with the above...but what are you saying with regards to the use of the word 'dominion'...I'm asking because I am familiar with how that word is being used by the NAR movement, but not sure if you agree with that or have another thought assigned to it?

you are absolutely right in saying spirituality does not mean retreat from life
Click to expand...
To be perfectly honest until I saw it mentioned on this thread I had never heard of it let alone agree with it. I have only recently acquired Chiltons books and am at the early stages of studying them. Having compared what I know about them with sites about NAR I see very little resemblance. The use of the term Dominion appears to connect with mankind given Dominion over the earth and that the whole Bible reveals Gods plan to restore mankind's original status before the fall. Chilton appears to center on the Covenants and the many types and symbols used in Revelation. He also reveals how the passages in the OT are used in Revelation. Most of this is found in The Day of Vengeance, his commentary on the book. His Theological position seems to be a combination of Pretism and Amillennialism. He was definitively not a Pre Millennialist
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#16
#16
tanakh said:
To be perfectly honest until I saw it mentioned on this thread I had never heard of it let alone agree with it. I have only recently acquired Chiltons books and am at the early stages of studying them. Having compared what I know about them with sites about NAR I see very little resemblance. The use of the term Dominion appears to connect with mankind given Dominion over the earth and that the whole Bible reveals Gods plan to restore mankind's original status before the fall. Chilton appears to center on the Covenants and the many types and symbols used in Revelation. He also reveals how the passages in the OT are used in Revelation. Most of this is found in The Day of Vengeance, his commentary on the book. His Theological position seems to be a combination of Pretism and Amillennialism. He was definitively not a Pre Millennialist
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ok...thanks for answering me..so you are saying that those who just quipped 'Dominion Theology' are wrong?

from reading your posts, I never thought you were a 'Dominionist' per se, which is why I asked

you do state in your post #8 that you do not agree with all he wrote

there are Dominion Theology people in this forum though

as I already said, I agree with your thoughts on how we are to live...not retreat and become so spiritually minded we are no earthly good

I honestly do not have time to add another book to my already overwhelming things I would like to read or study but I don't see the point in labelling something just for the sake of thinking you can pass it over...haha...maybe that is one reason why I have so many things I want to 'get to'

anyway...thanks for answering...wish you had done it earlier :)
 
tanakh

tanakh

Senior Member
#17
Dec 1, 2015
4,635
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#17
DevotiontoBible said:
This is NAR dominionist heresy.
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Have you read any of Chiltons books? I have checked out sites about NAR and find very little resemblance. NAR appears to flourish in a Pentecostal setting. David Chilton came from a Presbyterian background
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#18
#18
tanakh said:
Have you read any of Chiltons books? I have checked out sites about NAR and find very little resemblance. NAR appears to flourish in a Pentecostal setting. David Chilton came from a Presbyterian background
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NAR did start out Pentecostal and blossomed into the thing it is today...actually I have studied up on NAR and it is quite a read...like a hydra with arms and 'tentacles' going in all direction

their main thing is Apostles and Prophets...new ones who operate through new outside of the Bible 'revelation'

which is why it should be rejected...but it seems to be growing because it promises hear and now...while the Bible tells us that eternity with Christ is the real promise
 
L

Lewiz

Senior Member
#19
Mar 11, 2018
346
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#19
7seasrekeyed said:
NAR did start out Pentecostal and blossomed into the thing it is today...actually I have studied up on NAR and it is quite a read...like a hydra with arms and 'tentacles' going in all direction

their main thing is Apostles and Prophets...new ones who operate through new outside of the Bible 'revelation'

which is why it should be rejected...but it seems to be growing because it promises hear and now...while the Bible tells us that eternity with Christ is the real promise
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I agree with everything, except they were actually charismatics.
 
Locutus

Locutus

Senior Member
#20
Feb 10, 2017
5,928
685
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#20
Chilton turned full preterist before his death, so a fair bit of his writings would need to read in that light.
 
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