The Rapture of the Church is not biblical.
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The rapture is Biblical and it will happen on the day of the LORDs second coming.. There will be Christians still alive on earth on that day and they will be instantly transformed and caught up to meet the returning LORD Jesus Christ in the sky and will live and reign with Him on earth for 1000 years..
I encourage you to make the Bible your fist source of truth in regards to all things Christian.. websites will only give you the thoughts of the ones who control that website.. Don't make another man your authority.. Allow God to be your Authority and His Holy Spirit will guide you into understanding all you need to know..
I encourage you to make the Bible your fist source of truth in regards to all things Christian.. websites will only give you the thoughts of the ones who control that website.. Don't make another man your authority.. Allow God to be your Authority and His Holy Spirit will guide you into understanding all you need to know..
Hello Adstar,
The gathering of the church cannot take place at the second coming. And by second coming, I mean when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. If you have the church being gathered at the second coming, then you would be putting the living church through the entire wrath of God, of which scripture makes clear over and over again, that believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath. Therefore, the gathering of the church must take place prior to the 1st seal being opened, which is symbolically representing the antichrist and which initiates God's wrath.
You would also have to explain how the bride/church is already seen in heaven receiving her fine linen at the wedding of the Lamb and how we can be following Christ out of heaven at the second coming. It demonstrates that the church will have already been gathered and in heaven at the wedding of the Lamb. We return with the Lord at the second coming.
The gathering of the church cannot take place at the second coming. And by second coming, I mean when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom. If you have the church being gathered at the second coming, then you would be putting the living church through the entire wrath of God, of which scripture makes clear over and over again, that believers are not appointed to suffer God's wrath. Therefore, the gathering of the church must take place prior to the 1st seal being opened, which is symbolically representing the antichrist and which initiates God's wrath.
You would also have to explain how the bride/church is already seen in heaven receiving her fine linen at the wedding of the Lamb and how we can be following Christ out of heaven at the second coming. It demonstrates that the church will have already been gathered and in heaven at the wedding of the Lamb. We return with the Lord at the second coming.
Do you actually understand what a British or American Israelist is?
They believe that English-speaking British or Americans are the lost tribes of Israel.
There is absolutely no truth to this claim.
In addition these groups are often racist and hold to rather odd theology - a trip to the website mentioned will give one some insight.
As for me, I am most emphatically not anti-Semitic, nor racist, nor misogynist.
I cannot be true to Bible truth by discriminating against people based on either an ethnolinguistic or gender basis...
I think you need to get out more...
They believe that English-speaking British or Americans are the lost tribes of Israel.
There is absolutely no truth to this claim.
In addition these groups are often racist and hold to rather odd theology - a trip to the website mentioned will give one some insight.
As for me, I am most emphatically not anti-Semitic, nor racist, nor misogynist.
I cannot be true to Bible truth by discriminating against people based on either an ethnolinguistic or gender basis...
I think you need to get out more...
Rapture is biblical but not in the sense that is commonly taught all over. Rather than mass rapture of the church, rapture is individualistic and people won't even realize. A car is involved in an accident, all perish except one or two- that is their rapture.
People will not agree but we are already in the great tribulation. The tribulation as explained in Rev 6 is nothing more than what we experience now: Death by: sword (Wars), pestilences (Diseases), beasts of the earth (animals and man made machinery), famine (natural disasters). And all these will just increase as we continue with our life. Case in point- cancer.
Some believers (Church of Smyrna) have to go through the tribulation and they will be given a crown of life as their gift.
People will not agree but we are already in the great tribulation. The tribulation as explained in Rev 6 is nothing more than what we experience now: Death by: sword (Wars), pestilences (Diseases), beasts of the earth (animals and man made machinery), famine (natural disasters). And all these will just increase as we continue with our life. Case in point- cancer.
Some believers (Church of Smyrna) have to go through the tribulation and they will be given a crown of life as their gift.
Thank you for answering my question and am glad you are not anti-Semitic. As for the Israielist definition, I did not know....As there are No lost tribes then or now, I had never come across that word or its meaning....It does sound suspicious which is why I ask. Will take a look at the website...
Again, My apologies.
Blade
Again, My apologies.
Blade
The rapture happens at the return of Christ with his Saints or as Paul calls them ''Those who Sleep'' these are the righteous dead of all ages who are clothed in immortal bodies along with those who are alive at his coming. The living are raptured and meet him in the air then escort him to earth. The two stage ''Second coming'' is refuted by Peter in Acts where he told the Jews that Christ will remain in heaven until the consummation of all things that has to include everything that happens prior to his second coming and leaves no room for a quick visit.
Again in Acts the Disciples were told that he would return the same way as he left which was from the Mount of Olives. Zechariah describes this. In both books and the rest of the Bible there is no mention of a two stage coming. Christ was with the Apostles for three years and another forty days after his resurrection yet there is no specific mention of what one would think to be vital information about his coming in two stages especially since two Angels were sent to explain how he returns.
Those who believe it cite Pauls rapture teaching but a careful reading of all the relevant scriptures show that he never mentions a two stage coming of Jesus anywhere.
One last thing the wrath of God mentioned so often is against unbelievers. As I said in an earlier post its not for seven years, or for three and a half its forever and known as Hell. God provided Christs sacrifice to escape his wrath not a rapture.
Again in Acts the Disciples were told that he would return the same way as he left which was from the Mount of Olives. Zechariah describes this. In both books and the rest of the Bible there is no mention of a two stage coming. Christ was with the Apostles for three years and another forty days after his resurrection yet there is no specific mention of what one would think to be vital information about his coming in two stages especially since two Angels were sent to explain how he returns.
Those who believe it cite Pauls rapture teaching but a careful reading of all the relevant scriptures show that he never mentions a two stage coming of Jesus anywhere.
One last thing the wrath of God mentioned so often is against unbelievers. As I said in an earlier post its not for seven years, or for three and a half its forever and known as Hell. God provided Christs sacrifice to escape his wrath not a rapture.
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There's no such thing as two stage coming of Christ and the concept of one stage coming of Christ is also overrated. There's a billion things against your position and i don't know where to start but let me tackle the issue on second coming of Christ.
Christ doesn't come physically but as the kingdom of God which doesn’t come at a definite time- the reason He is referred to as “..He is and was and is to come the Almighty…”. Meaning that immediately after His death and resurrection, Christ comes back as the holy spirit and indwells believers (starting with the disciples). So, this kingdom of God has always been here with believers being added one by one until the end of the age. It doesn’t come with physical signs so that people can say “look, there it is, or here, come see it..” it is always in your midst.
Luke 17: 20Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”[SUP]c[/SUP]
22Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. 23People will tell you, ‘There he is!’ or ‘Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. 24For the Son of Man in his day[SUP]d[/SUP] will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. 25But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
Mark 9:1Then Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God arrive with power.”
Matthew 16:28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
Matt 26: 63But Jesus remained silent. Then the high priest said to Him, “I charge You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You arethe Christ, the Son of God.” 64“You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Really, Jesus comes back as the kingdom and there’s no specific time.
Christ doesn't come physically but as the kingdom of God which doesn’t come at a definite time- the reason He is referred to as “..He is and was and is to come the Almighty…”. Meaning that immediately after His death and resurrection, Christ comes back as the holy spirit and indwells believers (starting with the disciples). So, this kingdom of God has always been here with believers being added one by one until the end of the age. It doesn’t come with physical signs so that people can say “look, there it is, or here, come see it..” it is always in your midst.
Luke 17: 20Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”[SUP]c[/SUP]
22Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. 23People will tell you, ‘There he is!’ or ‘Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. 24For the Son of Man in his day[SUP]d[/SUP] will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. 25But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.
Mark 9:1Then Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God arrive with power.”
Matthew 16:28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom."
Matt 26: 63But Jesus remained silent. Then the high priest said to Him, “I charge You under oath by the living God: Tell us if You arethe Christ, the Son of God.” 64“You have said it yourself,” Jesus answered. “But I say to all of you, from now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven.”
Really, Jesus comes back as the kingdom and there’s no specific time.
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We know the term 'coming with the cloud' also means 'coming with power and glory' and has nothing to do with physical appearance. We can also conclude that when the angel insisted that Jesus' ascension and disappearance into the clouds (even though physical), the angel was more inclined in the spiritual meaning of the clouds which basically means heavenly power & glory. Also when Paul says we shall be caught up in the clouds- i do believe the following texts of our bodies being changed was the explanation of being caught up in the clouds, obtaining the glory and power as opposed to flying up in the air and coming down again (Real waste of energy).
You have to start from Nebuchadnezzar some 605BC and give us a clear calculation through Jesus' birth & death until now. I assure you, we are in the last 3.5 years (figurative) of the last week as prophesied by Daniel, well past the 3 quarter way mark. We are already deep in the wrath period/ the seals and the trumpets and the bowls are upon us and it is for both believers and unbelievers.
You have to start from Nebuchadnezzar some 605BC and give us a clear calculation through Jesus' birth & death until now. I assure you, we are in the last 3.5 years (figurative) of the last week as prophesied by Daniel, well past the 3 quarter way mark. We are already deep in the wrath period/ the seals and the trumpets and the bowls are upon us and it is for both believers and unbelievers.
I do not believe the rapture, especially the dispensationalism kind, is Biblical.
But, Shepherd’s Chapel is totally off base on so many things, you would do well to never watch it again. Instead, throw out everything you learned from their website and videos, and start from scratch.
Meaning, read the Bible from cover to cover. Three chapters from the Old Testament and 1 chapter from the New Testament gets you through the Bible in a year. Do that every year!
And stop going to the Internet for information, it is a web of lies and deceit! Any idiot can post videos saying whatever they want, twisting Scripture to say what it was never meant to say!
Then find a good Bible believing church. Hard to define, but preaching the Bible in long passages. And love from the members.
But, Shepherd’s Chapel is totally off base on so many things, you would do well to never watch it again. Instead, throw out everything you learned from their website and videos, and start from scratch.
Meaning, read the Bible from cover to cover. Three chapters from the Old Testament and 1 chapter from the New Testament gets you through the Bible in a year. Do that every year!
And stop going to the Internet for information, it is a web of lies and deceit! Any idiot can post videos saying whatever they want, twisting Scripture to say what it was never meant to say!
Then find a good Bible believing church. Hard to define, but preaching the Bible in long passages. And love from the members.
The above is incorrect: Below is the actual scripture -
"After He had said this, they watched as He was taken up, and a cloud hid Him from their sight. They were looking intently into the sky as He was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. “Men of Galilee,” they said, “Why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.”
When Jesus was taken up, He was hidden from their site by a cloud. Therefore, the reference then is that the Lord will return in the same way that he left, to gather the church in the clouds and is not referring to the Mount of Olives. After the dead in Christ are resurrected and caught up, then we who are still alive will be changed and caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air
It is not a two stage coming, but are two separate events. One is to gather the church and take them back to the Father's house prior to the on-set of God's wrath. And the other is to return to the earth to end the age, defeat the beast and the false prophet, to restrict Satan in the Abyss and to establish His millennial kingdom.
As I have made know to you so many times, the wrath of God must take place in the form of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. The church is neither appointed to suffer God's coming wrath which will take place upon this earth, nor the wrath of condemning judgment at the great white throne judgment. The underlying reason for this is because Jesus already took upon himself the wrath that every believer deserves. When a person believes, they are credited with the righteousness of Christ and have been reconciled to God. Therefore, believers cannot and will not be present on this earth for God's wrath, which Jesus already satisfied, completely and fully.Jesus also tells us that He will keep believers "out of" that hour of trial.
Actually, what is happening is that Paul is describing a separate event from the second coming and false teachers have made the two events the same, while ignoring the rest of the scriptural details regarding end-time events. Regarding this, Revelation 19:11-21 is a detailed account of the second coming, when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age:
"Hallelujah!For our Lord God Almighty reigns. Let us rejoice and be glad and give him glory! For the wedding of the Lamb has come, and his bride has made herself ready. Fine linen, bright and clean, was given her to wear.”
"Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God. The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses.
So in Rev.19:6-8, we have the announcement, in heaven and prior to the Lord's return to the earth, that the wedding of the Lamb has come and that His bride, the church, has made herself ready. She is then given fine line, bright and clean to wear. Then in Rev.19:11-16, we have the Lord returning to the earth to end the age and following Him out of heaven are those armies riding on white horses and wearing the same fine linen that the bride/church will have previously been given at the wedding of the Lamb.
Therefore, the scriptures above demonstrate that the bride/church will already be in heaven prior to the Lord's return to the earth and will in fact be following Him out of heaven as He returns.
In additional support that the church which will have previously been resurrected and will have been in heaven, we have the following:
"They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
The above is regarding the Lord's return to the earth and returning with Him will be His "called, chosen and faithful followers," which is referring to those of the church who will have previously been resurrected, changed and caught up. That the church will be returning with the Lord to the earth is also supported by the following:
"Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about them: “See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his saints to judge everyone, and to convict all of them of all the ungodly acts they have committed in their ungodliness, and of all the defiant words ungodly sinners have spoken against him."
And as I told you and tell you again, there is a time of God's wrath which is going to take place upon this earth, which is what the majority of Revelation is describing via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, also referred to as the day of the Lord. His wrath will continue on the earth throughout the entire seven years, with Jesus returning after the 7th bowl has been poured out.
Your on-going problem is not utilizing all scriptures regarding end-time events, but only using partial information to arrive at your conclusion. In addition, you still don't understand the severity of God's coming wrath upon this earth, which is going to decimate the majority of the population and dismantle all human government. You keep saying that the church is going to remain on the earth and that God is going to protect in the midst of His wrath. Let me give you some examples as to why the church cannot be here:
"The first angel sounded his trumpet, and there came hail and fire mixed with blood, and it was hurled down on the earth. A third of the earth was burned up, a third of the trees were burned up, and all the green grass was burned up."
The above is the first trumpet and the result is a third of the earth and a third of the trees are burned up. What is not mentioned, is that, if you have a third of the earth and trees burned up, you have an unknown amount of fatalities. We're talking about a third of the earth, that is an awful lot of area where people live. Where is the church within that third?
"The third angel sounded his trumpet, and a great star, blazing like a torch, fell from the sky on a third of the rivers and on the springs of water— the name of the star is Wormwood. A third of the waters turned bitter, and many people died from the waters that had become bitter."
With the third trumpet above, a third of the rivers and fresh water is contaminated so that many people die from drinking it. Again, a third of the rivers and fresh covers a lot of people. Where is the church in all this?
"The fourth angel poured out his bowl on the sun, and the sun was allowed to scorch people with fire.They were seared by the intense heat and they cursed the name of God, who had control over these plagues, but they refused to repent and glorify him."
Jumping ahead to the 4th bowl, God is going to allow the sun to scorch people with intense heat. This would affect the entire earth. Where is the church protected here. Is God putting a force-field around each believer?
Between the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, which are the only two places regarding God's wrath that gives a percentage of fatalities, over half of the earths population will have been killed within the first 3 1/2 years of that seven year period. The oceans and all fresh water is going to be turned to blood! According to scripture, the cities of the nations are going to literally collapse. And you think that God is going to leave his church on the earth during all of this, opposed to keeping his promise to remove us prior to His wrath?!!!
I just mentioned a few of the events of God's wrath. And as I have told you, because of your continued claim that the church is going to go through that time period and that the church will gathered when Christ returns to the earth to end the age, you have no idea of the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath.
As long you continue to utilize only partial information regarding end-time events, you will continue to arrive at a false conclusion.
I have studied those letters and the whole Bible and continue to do so....I disagree with you on two points about the prayer statement you made...
1st: you said:"no amount of praying will change that."......From what I get from the Bible, Prayer is a way for us to interact with God on a personal basis.
2nd: You would be surprised what prayer will do. It is ultimately up to GOD whether our prayers would change anything on those people you speak of.
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Well Adstar,,,we obviously do not agree with each other. The Harpozo will happen when the Last soul to accept Jesus Christ takes place...When that is, we have no idea but we do know when Jesus will come back (2nd Advent) and what has to happen prior to that time.
We actually know more about the 2nd Advent and when it will be including the Days and Nights Jesus walked this earth in Flesh and Bones.
If what you say is so,,,who are the ones living on the earth during the 1000 years. All unbelievers are dead...(ALL of them) and the only ones left are the believers that were able to remain alive during Daniel's 70th week. If they are caught up and taken to heaven along with the Body of the Church (His Bride); who is left on earth to rule???????????????Who are they going to reign over???????????????
It is very clear that those alive at the end of Daniel's 70th week (When Jesus comes back, 2nd Advent) are still in the flesh and bones body. But yet, you say they are transformed to a new incorruptible body.
For the life of me, I cannot get my mind wrapped around your version of the 2nd coming...Guess, I'll just have to stay God's Word.
Blessing
Blade
We actually know more about the 2nd Advent and when it will be including the Days and Nights Jesus walked this earth in Flesh and Bones.
If what you say is so,,,who are the ones living on the earth during the 1000 years. All unbelievers are dead...(ALL of them) and the only ones left are the believers that were able to remain alive during Daniel's 70th week. If they are caught up and taken to heaven along with the Body of the Church (His Bride); who is left on earth to rule???????????????Who are they going to reign over???????????????
It is very clear that those alive at the end of Daniel's 70th week (When Jesus comes back, 2nd Advent) are still in the flesh and bones body. But yet, you say they are transformed to a new incorruptible body.
For the life of me, I cannot get my mind wrapped around your version of the 2nd coming...Guess, I'll just have to stay God's Word.
Blessing
Blade
I would offer. Not everything that goes up must come down at least according to spiritual laws that pertain to faith the unseen eternal ..
The whole work will be in the twinkling of the eye. This is unlike the first creation.
The key that unlocks the gates of hell is in respect literal word thousand, signified giving us the spirutl understanding it represents an unknown, unrevealed measure of time.
Its where many literalist that walk by sight go astray and look for a kingdom that comes by observation
There will be Christians still alive on the corrupted earth on the last day and they will be instantly transformed and caught up to meet the LORD Jesus Christ in the sky with the others that are asleep (the first resurrection) .and will live with Him on the new incorruptible heavens and earth ,forever and ever .The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind ..
It appears that at times we forget what kind of body we do have.
I can feel like twelve as long as a stay away from the mirror the true witness of corruption.
We are is not what we will be. We walk by the unseen faith that comes from hearing God and not those who number themselves ... we are not of the number in that way. God forbids numbering.
1Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, "then" shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Amen brother
The whole work will be in the twinkling of the eye. This is unlike the first creation.
The key that unlocks the gates of hell is in respect literal word thousand, signified giving us the spirutl understanding it represents an unknown, unrevealed measure of time.
Its where many literalist that walk by sight go astray and look for a kingdom that comes by observation
There will be Christians still alive on the corrupted earth on the last day and they will be instantly transformed and caught up to meet the LORD Jesus Christ in the sky with the others that are asleep (the first resurrection) .and will live with Him on the new incorruptible heavens and earth ,forever and ever .The former things will not be remembered or ever come to mind ..
It appears that at times we forget what kind of body we do have.
I can feel like twelve as long as a stay away from the mirror the true witness of corruption.
We are is not what we will be. We walk by the unseen faith that comes from hearing God and not those who number themselves ... we are not of the number in that way. God forbids numbering.
1Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Corinthians 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, "then" shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
Amen brother
Yes no form the flesh profits for nothing. Invisibly he came invisibly he left .
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.Joh 6:62
The last time he left he left clear instruction to help us under he is not a man as us. the same reason when approached to be worshiped in respect to His g flesh as good teacher (Lord) he would say only God not seen is good .
2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
The one time outward demonstration of Him pouring out His spirit not seen is over. Either he has come in the flesh or he has not. No limbo in between.God is not a man as us .
No fleshly Jesus
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.Act 1:9
We walk by the faith of Christ not by sight as if he was a man as us. Never was never could be .
What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before? It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.Joh 6:62
The last time he left he left clear instruction to help us under he is not a man as us. the same reason when approached to be worshiped in respect to His g flesh as good teacher (Lord) he would say only God not seen is good .
2Corinthians 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
The one time outward demonstration of Him pouring out His spirit not seen is over. Either he has come in the flesh or he has not. No limbo in between.God is not a man as us .
No fleshly Jesus
And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.
And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.Act 1:9
We walk by the faith of Christ not by sight as if he was a man as us. Never was never could be .
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