Why does God only offer salvation on this side of the grave? Why is faith important?

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claysmithr

Guest
#1
I've read the whole bible, I must have missed something.

Obviously when people finally meet God they will have no choice but to believe.

Why does God only allow us to believe in Jesus for forgiveness on this side of the grave?

An answer just came to me.. because of faith. Why is faith so important to God for salvation?
 
Oct 11, 2017
82
0
6
#2
God's righteousness comes only by/through faith. Man has no righteousness of his own (filthy rags). God's righteousness must be imputed to a man. That comes by/through faith.
 

Waggles

Senior Member
Sep 21, 2017
3,338
1,261
113
South
adelaiderevival.com
#3
I think it might have something to do with the issue of angels who
did see and know God directly and yet who rebelled and left their estate
[fallen and banished to darkness]
and now we a lesser creation have been given opportunity to achieve
immortality and to enter the presence of God without seeing him or Heaven
directly but achieving this only through faith in the gospel.

3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and
the stars, which thou has ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man,
that thou visit him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and have crowned
him with glory and honour.
Psalm 8:

10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God
over one sinner that repents.
Luke 15:

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us
they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them
that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down
from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
1Peter 1:

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which has made us meet to be
partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated
us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Colossians 1:
 
Jan 27, 2015
2,690
367
83
#4
I've read the whole bible, I must have missed something.

Obviously when people finally meet God they will have no choice but to believe.

Why does God only allow us to believe in Jesus for forgiveness on this side of the grave?

An answer just came to me.. because of faith. Why is faith so important to God for salvation?
Exactly; God wants us to make a choice. Faith is a choice.
 
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#5
I've read the whole bible, I must have missed something.

Obviously when people finally meet God they will have no choice but to believe.

Why does God only allow us to believe in Jesus for forgiveness on this side of the grave?

An answer just came to me.. because of faith. Why is faith so important to God for salvation?
Because we are getting ready to be judged. Did we live as though He existed or that we are our own god?

That’s the whole story. Here now is my final conclusion: Fear God and obey his commands, for this is everyone’s duty. God will judge us for everything we do, including every secret thing, whether good or bad.
Ecclesiastes 12:13*-‬14 NLT
https://bible.com/bible/116/ecc.12.13-14.NLT
 
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notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
#7
I've read the whole bible, I must have missed something.

Obviously when people finally meet God they will have no choice but to believe.

Why does God only allow us to believe in Jesus for forgiveness on this side of the grave?

An answer just came to me.. because of faith. Why is faith so important to God for salvation?
No it is appointed unto man once to die and then the judgment. We have no choice but to stand before God as our Judge.

Salvation is by grace. Faith is the means by which we receive Gods grace.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Dec 9, 2011
13,715
1,723
113
#8
I've read the whole bible, I must have missed something.

Obviously when people finally meet God they will have no choice but to believe.

Why does God only allow us to believe in Jesus for forgiveness on this side of the grave?

An answer just came to me.. because of faith. Why is faith so important to God for salvation?
If a person doesnt have a choice to choose then they are going to be like a robot.
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
113
#9
It’s not faith for the sake of faith. Christians miss the abstract intended meaning of Genesis. Reading about a tree with special fruit in a garden might make an interesting fable for Sunday school but I’m convinced it is not a historical fact. In prayer God explained to me that GUILT is the fruit of the “knowledge of good and evil”. If you don’t know right from wrong, you can’t “taste” guilt and it’s spiritual effects that separate us from God. Faith that Christ is a worthy sacrifice to eliminate every sin absolves us of guilt to restore our spiritual connection to the Father. Then we can communicate with Him. We commit ourselves into His service in this life. We are to be the hands and feet of Christ on Earth. What good is it commiting our corpse? Christ is sharing His inheritance with His “bride”. We work now and get paid later at the resurrection. When Christ returns He will rule the world and we will be royalty. Hence the crowns. This is my understanding.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
4,333
113
#10
I've read the whole bible, I must have missed something.

Obviously when people finally meet God they will have no choice but to believe.

Why does God only allow us to believe in Jesus for forgiveness on this side of the grave?

An answer just came to me.. because of faith. Why is faith so important to God for salvation?
I think the following

Ephesians 2:4-9


4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Romans 5:1-2


1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, 2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

So if after we hear the gospel and reject it, If we do not want to know God and disregard him this side of the grave then he will accept accept that.
 
Jan 6, 2018
1,796
154
63
#11
It’s not faith for the sake of faith. Christians miss the abstract intended meaning of Genesis. Reading about a tree with special fruit in a garden might make an interesting fable for Sunday school but I’m convinced it is not a historical fact. In prayer God explained to me that GUILT is the fruit of the “knowledge of good and evil”. If you don’t know right from wrong, you can’t “taste” guilt and it’s spiritual effects that separate us from God. Faith that Christ is a worthy sacrifice to eliminate every sin absolves us of guilt to restore our spiritual connection to the Father. Then we can communicate with Him. We commit ourselves into His service in this life. We are to be the hands and feet of Christ on Earth. What good is it commiting our corpse? Christ is sharing His inheritance with His “bride”. We work now and get paid later at the resurrection. When Christ returns He will rule the world and we will be royalty. Hence the crowns. This is my understanding.
You have no evidence it wasn't a literal fruit. The text is contrary to what you just wrote.
 
Nov 26, 2012
3,095
1,050
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#12
You have no evidence it wasn't a literal fruit. The text is contrary to what you just wrote.
Do you also think that the kingdom of heaven is a mustard seed? I’m just conveying what was revealed to me in prayer. God explained that this was the intention of sacrifices also. It never washed away sin, it washed away guilt. The Law was given to identify sin or unGodliness. Our guilty conscience prevents us from hearing God. This is why we must also forgive others in case the guilt they feel towards us prevents the Lord from communicating with them. Also, it explains why if eating meat sacrificed to idols causes you guilt, don’t do it. To you it is sin. Our emotions like guilt, anger, love and peace have spiritual power. I could explain it further but if you don’t think I’m correct about forbidden fruit, quantum entanglement, fractals and cosmic singularity won’t be well received.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
#13
I've read the whole bible, I must have missed something.

Obviously when people finally meet God they will have no choice but to believe.

Why does God only allow us to believe in Jesus for forgiveness on this side of the grave?

An answer just came to me.. because of faith. Why is faith so important to God for salvation?
Faith is the beginning.

If this life in the flesh is a test, and I beleive it is.

Psalm 11:4, "יהוה is in His holy temple; יהוה throne is in heaven;His eyes behold, His eyelids test the sons of men.”


What kind of test would it be if we can change our answer after handing the test in and it have been "graded?"


Psalms 62:9-12, “Sons of Aḏam are but a breath, Sons of men are a lie; If weighed in the scales, They are altogether lighter than breath. Do not trust in oppression. And do not become vain in robbery; If riches increase, Do not set your heart on them. The Mighty One has spoken once, Twice I have heard this: That strength belongs to Yah. And loving-commitment is Yours, O יהוה; For You reward each one according to his work.”


Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”


Malachi 3:14-18, “You have said, ‘It is worthless to serve Yah. And what did we gain when we guarded His Charge, and when we walked as mourners before יהוה of hosts? And now we are calling the proud blessed – not only are the doers of wrongness built up, but they also try Yah and escape. Then shall those who fear יהוה speak to one another, and יהוה listens and hears, and a book of remembrance be written before Him, of those who fear יהוה, and those who think upon His Name. And they shall be Mine,” said יהוה of hosts, “on the day that I prepare a treasured possession. And I shall spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him. Then you shall again see the difference between the righteous and the wrong, between one who serves Yah and one who does not serve Him."



Matthew 25:1, “Then the reign of the heavens shall be compared to ten maidens who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom."Matthew 25:2, “And five of them were wise, and five foolish."Matthew 25:3, “Those who were foolish, having taken their lamps, took no oil with them,"Matthew 25:4, but the wise took oil in their containers with their lamps."Matthew 25:5, “Now while the bridegroom took time, they all slumbered and slept."Matthew 25:6, “And at midnight a cry was heard, ‘See, the bridegroom is coming, go out to meet him!’"Matthew 25:7, “Then all those maidens rose up and trimmed their lamps."Matthew 25:8, “And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’"Matthew 25:9, “But the wise answered, saying, ‘No, indeed, there would not be enough for us and you. Instead, go to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’"Matthew 25:10, “And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast, and the door was shut."Matthew 25:11, “And later the other maidens also came, saying, ‘Master, Master, open up for us!’"Matthew 25:12, “But he answering, said, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’"Matthew 25:13, “Watch therefore, because you do not know the day nor the hour in which the Son of Aḏam is coming,"

 
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Jan 6, 2018
1,796
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#14
Do you also think that the kingdom of heaven is a mustard seed? I’m just conveying what was revealed to me in prayer. God explained that this was the intention of sacrifices also. It never washed away sin, it washed away guilt. The Law was given to identify sin or unGodliness. Our guilty conscience prevents us from hearing God. This is why we must also forgive others in case the guilt they feel towards us prevents the Lord from communicating with them. Also, it explains why if eating meat sacrificed to idols causes you guilt, don’t do it. To you it is sin. Our emotions like guilt, anger, love and peace have spiritual power. I could explain it further but if you don’t think I’m correct about forbidden fruit, quantum entanglement, fractals and cosmic singularity won’t be well received.
But Jesus didn't say the kingdom of heaven is a mustard seed. He said it "is like a mustard seed". Do you know how to read? Genesis is written as a historical narrative not as a parable. God didn't reveal anything to you. Maybe you ate too much pizza before bed and hallucinated that Genesis is not a literal history.
 
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Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
16,724
10,530
113
77
Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#15
I think it might have something to do with the issue of angels who
did see and know God directly and yet who rebelled and left their estate
[fallen and banished to darkness]
and now we a lesser creation have been given opportunity to achieve
immortality and to enter the presence of God without seeing him or Heaven
directly but achieving this only through faith in the gospel.

3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and
the stars, which thou has ordained;
4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man,
that thou visit him?
5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels, and have crowned
him with glory and honour.
Psalm 8:

10 Likewise, I say unto you, there is joy in the presence of the angels of God
over one sinner that repents.
Luke 15:

12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us
they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them
that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down
from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
1Peter 1:

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which has made us meet to be
partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated
us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Colossians 1:
Waggles, I think you have hit the nail right on the head. Satan is just a tool for us to overcome. Evil must have been tempting for some of the angels. What God is in the process of doing, is showing all of creation exactly why evil is what He says it is. Do you see the correlation to the tree of good and evil?So we won't just have to take God's word for it, He is going to show us.
 
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Nov 26, 2012
3,095
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#16
But Jesus didn't say the kingdom of heaven is a mustard seed. He said it "is like a mustard seed". Do you know how to read? Genesis is written as a historical narrative not as a parable. God didn't reveal anything to you. Maybe you ate too much pizza before bed and hallucinated that Genesis is not a literal history.
Jesus never said “like”. He didn’t speak English. Neither Hebrew or Greek translates word for word into English. Interpretation was subject to the preconceptions of the translators. For instance elohim is always translated as God but it is clear that isn’t always what it means. For that matter His name wasn’t even Jesus. Regardless, some people feel it is heretical to believe something other than main stream. The religious zealots of the day criticized Christ and thought He too didn’t understand scripture. Blame pizza, if you must, but at least analyze the logic of what I stated and contend with that.
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#17
Jesus never said “like”. He didn’t speak English. Neither Hebrew or Greek translates word for word into English. Interpretation was subject to the preconceptions of the translators. For instance elohim is always translated as God but it is clear that isn’t always what it means. For that matter His name wasn’t even Jesus. Regardless, some people feel it is heretical to believe something other than main stream. The religious zealots of the day criticized Christ and thought He too didn’t understand scripture. Blame pizza, if you must, but at least analyze the logic of what I stated and contend with that.
Claiming God revealed those kooky things to you does not give those kooky things credibility.
 
Jan 27, 2015
2,690
367
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#18
It’s not faith for the sake of faith. Christians miss the abstract intended meaning of Genesis. Reading about a tree with special fruit in a garden might make an interesting fable for Sunday school but I’m convinced it is not a historical fact. In prayer God explained to me that GUILT is the fruit of the “knowledge of good and evil”. If you don’t know right from wrong, you can’t “taste” guilt and it’s spiritual effects that separate us from God. Faith that Christ is a worthy sacrifice to eliminate every sin absolves us of guilt to restore our spiritual connection to the Father. Then we can communicate with Him. We commit ourselves into His service in this life. We are to be the hands and feet of Christ on Earth. What good is it commiting our corpse? Christ is sharing His inheritance with His “bride”. We work now and get paid later at the resurrection. When Christ returns He will rule the world and we will be royalty. Hence the crowns. This is my understanding.
Just because you see an abstract meaning, doesn't mean there's no literal meaning. If the fall of man was only abstract, why do we face literal consequences? That doesn't make sense.
 
Nov 26, 2012
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#19
Claiming God revealed those kooky things to you does not give those kooky things credibility.
You declaring them kooky, does not discredit them either. What in particular do you find non-biblical, not by location of text but theoretically?
 
Jan 6, 2018
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#20
You declaring them kooky, does not discredit them either. What in particular do you find non-biblical, not by location of text but theoretically?
It is kooky for you to allegorize an historical narrative such as Genesis. Do you allegorize your Canadian history?