Once Saved, Always Saved ... OR Can you Lose your Salvation?

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Lewiz

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2018
346
22
18
#41
Yes the first post I made was short and to the point. I then said I would add Scriptures showing and expanding on what I said in the following posts. And yes people who come to a Bible Discussion Forum for truly sharing in the word, I would expect to read it, those who come to mock or to grandstand I would not expect to read it. To me this is a big issue of the believers today, most I have met never really read, study and meditate on His word. Bottom line it is for who it is for.
You have some good scriptures, but you need to break them up in different posts. I skipped over them too.
 

Lewiz

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2018
346
22
18
#42
This is your wild guess. You will not find any Scripture for this idea.
[SUP]Hebrews 3
[/SUP]

[SUP][/SUP][SUP]7Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says,“Today, if you hear his voice,
8do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
on the day of testing in the wilderness,
9where your fathers put me to the test
and saw my works for forty years.
10Therefore I was provoked with that generation,
and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart;
they have not known my ways.’
11As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest.’”
12Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. 13But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin. 14For we have come to share in Christ, if indeed we hold our original confidence firm to the end. 15As it is said,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”
16For who were those who heard and yet rebelled? Was it not all those who left Egypt led by Moses? 17And with whom was he provoked for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the wilderness? 18And to whom did he swear that they would not enter his rest, but to those who were disobedient? 19So we see that they were unable to enter because of unbelief
[/SUP]
[SUP].

Hebrews is using OT scripture as an example to the church that rebellious unbelief can keep us from entering in.
[/SUP]
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#43
Salvation is lost by rejecting God after being spirit filled. Adam and Eve rejected God and the spirit of holliness departed from them, also King Saul rejected God after being spirit filled and it departed from him as well. David sinned a lot, and repented a lot ,but he never rejected God. He remained spirit filled.
if salvation can be lost. God is a liar

John said a person who rejects christ, yet was once considered to be part of the church wqas never part of the church to begin with, Those people never lost salvation, they never had it. They was a dog. They tried to act like a new creature, biut they could not do it, because they were still a dog. And a dog always eats his own vomit.

Adam and Eve was bto filled wiht the spirit. They were perfect and walked with God as he walked, because like him, they were perfect. After they sinned, they too had to recieve him, by trusting in him,.

Not everyone who cliames to believe in jesus is saved, wqhen will y0ou people come to this realisation and stop claiming that GFod is a liar?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#44
Bingo!

Salvation is based upon belief and confession and nothing else. And God says belief and confession are NOT acts of works. The ONLY way it could ever happen is if someone stops believing and confessing. See, God says what He will do, which is NEVER turn us away because of our works. But He also says what WE must do - persevere in belief and confession to the end. But a lot of people don't like to hear that, so they ignore all the looong posts of God's word that show EXACTLY what God says about it.

OSAS'ers, you CANNOT ignore these scriptures that say you must PERSEVERE TO THE END. You MUST find a way to encompass them in your beliefs. Even if they are a bit long winded. And counter to what you have believe for so many years.

And again, for 99% of us here, IT'S NEVER GOING TO BE AN ISSUE ANYWAY!
God said th emoment a person believes they HAVE eternal life. They HAVE passed from death to life. They HAVE been made a new creation in Christ Jesus, they HAVE BEEN fsealed by the spirit. The will NEVER be lost. And as long as he lives, so will they.

Why would want to want to twist this to mean somethign other that what it says, why dp you deny the promises of God, then think you are saved?

It is an issue for you, and your buddy Gabriel and ALL who reject the promises of God. As I told you, your calcualtions are offf. Your PART of the people it WILL affect. Youy can deny it all you want, if you refuse to place your faith in christ, You will not be saved,

And please. Do not tell me you have, if you have, you would never think such things as you do!
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#45
You can lose YOUR salvation, whatever it is. You cannot lose GOD'S salvation. When He saves a man he is truly saved. John 6.39; John 10.27-29; 1 Cor 1.9; Phil 2.6; 2 Tim 1.9; Tit 3.5-7; Heb 7.25. The question is whether you are trusting in your salvation or God's.
Really? You are going to argue semantics?

Projecting yourself into these verses holds no more weight then anyone else doing the same.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
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#46
Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door.
He is not a revolving door.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#47
Would love to hear different points of view on this and Scirptural support of your view if you have it.
Romans 11:27-32
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.


Hell is being broke in heaven.
 
7

7seasrekeyed

Guest
#48
You are quite correct, the Bible assures that Christians are assured of salvation. But my point was about the assurance of being a Christian.

The Bible clearly records the concept of the false assurance of being a Christian. Since this concept is possible, presenting scriptures that proclaim the assurance of Christians in general does not guarantee salvation on a personal or individual basis. This decision is left to God on Judgement Day.
well, this is what you said:

Originally Posted by DJ2
Who among us does not think they are saved? Does it even matter if we think we are saved?


God judges these things not us.
and now you say this:

You are quite correct, the Bible assures that Christians are assured of salvation. But my point was about the assurance of being a Christian.

The Bible clearly records the concept of the false assurance of being a Christian. Since this concept is possible, presenting scriptures that proclaim the assurance of Christians in general does not guarantee salvation on a personal or individual basis. This decision is left to God on Judgement Day.
you are not saying what I am saying so you saying that what I say is right is not right if we look at what you say which backs up your first post, beating around the bush but still, is actually what you were saying when I said what I said because of what you said :)
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#49
Once saved always saved? The short answer is yes, however none are saved until the return of the Messiah, and since He is the judge it is up to Him who is saved and who is not. A key factor is the misunderstanding of the difference between “born again” (which is receiving an eternal spirit body) and a “new heart” (Ezekiel 36:26-28, Ezekiel 11:19-21, Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 10:16) . People have mistaken receiving a “new heart” as “born again” (John 3:3-6, 1 Peter 1:3-9,1 Peter 1:23, 1 Corinthians 15:51-55, Mat 24:29-31) All verses and more will be posted below.

Titus 3:5. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy HE SAVED US..

Eph 2: 8-9, for by grace we HAVE BEEN SAVED

Rom 8: 24 - WERE SAVED in this hope

2 tim 1: 9, who SAVED US and called us witha holy calling


So much for not being saved yet.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63
#50
Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door.
He is not a revolving door.
Well, if eternal is life that always was, then I'll take my chances on hope of everlasting life "...because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:" [See: 2 Thess 2:13]

Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
Job 38:1-2
As the whirlwind passeth, so is the wicked no more: but the righteous is an everlasting foundation. Prov 10:25
 
Mar 11, 2016
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Singapore
abigail.pro
#51
I was just thinking about an illustration of this last night! It had something to do with humans and trees and how once Jesus turns you into a tree, there's no way, in all your tree powers, you could turn yourself into a human.
 
Mar 11, 2016
3,055
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abigail.pro
#52
I think, we'll have to take a step back and look at this in the context of identities.

Once you were a sinner. Even though you were a sinner, you didn't sin all the time. There were times you were doing good things. You loved your family, you loved your friends. You gave to charities, you forgave some people who wronged you. Heck, you even followed some of the ten commandments, you didn't murder, didn't commit adultery, etc. You were not actually a terrible sinner. But sinner, you remained. It was who you were, without Christ and no amount of good doing could've changed that.

Now, when you accepted Jesus' (re: Jesus fulfilled the law in your place) sacrifice on the Cross for you. Your identity changed.

You became righteous in Christ. By the same token now, you remain righteous by Christ's sacrifice, alone. You don't always pray, you don't always do good, you don't always give. Heck, you even broke some of the ten commandments. You don't keep the sabbath, and let's go down deeper, you've committed adultery, or you don't always believe that God actually meant every Word He said (i.e. where sin abounds, grace abounds so much more). You're not exactly a very good Christian, by your standards. But righteous, you remain. It is who you are now, in Christ and no amount of bad doing could change that.

Biblical reference: Romans 5, and so much more.
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
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#53
Titus 3:5. Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but by his mercy HE SAVED US..

Eph 2: 8-9, for by grace we HAVE BEEN SAVED

Rom 8: 24 - WERE SAVED in this hope

2 tim 1: 9, who SAVED US and called us witha holy calling


So much for not being saved yet.
Take thww whole word.

Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”

or is Paul a Jesus eraser?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.” [/FONT]


Matthew 10:22, “And you will be hated by all for my name's sake. But the one who endures to the end will be saved.”

Matt 24:12-13, “And because of the increase in lawlessness, the love of many shall become cold. But he who shall have endured to the end shall be saved.”

Hebrews 10:36, “For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done the will of Yah you may receive what is promised.”

Hebrews 3:14, “For we have become partakers of Messiah if we hold fast the beginning of our trust firm to the end.”

Revelation 3:12, "He who overcomes, I will make a pillar in The House of My Father, and he will never go out of it. And I will write upon him the Name of My Father, and the Name of the New Yerusalem which comes down out of heaven from My Father, newly named."

For scripture interprets scripture, and nobody can preach or teach differently than what Yahshua already taught, and He Himself said He taught the doctrine of YHWH. What is promised to us is eternal life, so once again; once you have done the will of Yah in your life, in the resurrection you receive it. Not before.

James 1:12, "Blessed is the man who does endure trial, for when he has been proved, he shall receive the crown of life which the Master has promised to those who love Him."

Revelation 3:21, “To him who overcomes I shall give to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.”

Revelation 12:11, “And they overcame him because of the Blood of the Lamb, and because of the Word of their witness, and they did not love their lives to the death."

Matt 11:27-30, "All things have been delivered to Me by My Father. And no one fully knows the Son except the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father, except the Son and those whom YHWH wills the Son to reveal. Come to Me, all who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For My yoke is easy and My burden is light"

you who are afflictedrest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers”

This is till future;

2 Thessalonians 1:5-10, “Clear evidence of the righteous judgment of יהוה, in order for you to be counted worthy of the reign of יהוה, for which you also suffer, since יהוה shall rightly repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give you who are afflictedrest with us when the Master יהושע is revealed from heaven with His mighty messengers, in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know יהוה, and on those who do not obey the Good News of our Master יהושע Messiah, who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Master and from the esteem of His strength, when He comes to be esteemed in His set-apart ones and to be admired among all those who believe in that Day, because our witness to you was believed.”

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

John 3:3-6, “Yahshua answered, and said to him: Truly, truly, I say to you: Unless a man is reborn from above, he cannot see the Kingdom of YHWH. Nicodemus said to Him; How can a man be reborn when he is old? Can he enter the womb of his mother the second time, and be born? Yahshua answered: Truly, truly, I say to you: “Unless a man is begotten of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of YHWH. That which is born of the flesh, is flesh; but that which is born of the Spirit, is spirit.”

This is born again;

1 Peter 1:3-9, “Blessed be the Strength and Father of our Master יהושע Messiah, who according to His great compassion has caused us to be born again to a living expectation through the resurrection of יהושע Messiah from the dead, to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and unfading, having been kept in the heavens for you, who are protected by the power of Yah through belief, for a deliverance ready to be revealed in the last time, in which you exult, even though for a little while, if need be, you have been grieved by manifold trials, in order that the proving of your belief – much more precious than gold that perishes, and proven by fire – might be found to result in praise and respect and esteem at the revelation of יהושע Messiah, whom having not seen, you love; in whom you exult with unspeakable and esteemed joy, yet not seeing, but believing, obtaining the goal of your belief: a deliverance of lives.”

1 Peter 1:23, "Having been begotten, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of Yah, which lives and remains forever."

1 Corinthians 15:51-55, “See, I speak a secret to you: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible has to put on incorruption, and this mortal to put on immortality. And when this corruptible has put on incorruption, and this mortal has put on immortality, then shall come to be the word that has been written, “Death is swallowed up in overcoming. O Death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your overcoming?”

This is salvation:

Mat 24:29-31, “Immediately, but after the tribulation of those days will the sun be darkened, and the moon will not give her light, and the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. And then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven; and then will all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His malakim with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of earth to the other.”
2 Peter 2:20-22, “For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of the Master and Saviorיהושע Messiah, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the set-apart Command delivered unto them. For them the proverb has proved true, “A dog returns to his own vomit,” (Pro 26:11) and, “A washed sow returns to her rolling in the mud.”

Psalm 69:27-28, “Add iniquity to their iniquity! Let them not come into Your righteousness! May they be blotted out of The Book of Life, and not be written with the righteous!”

He who overcomes

Revelation 3:5, “He who overcomes, the same will be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name from The Book of Life, but I will confess his name before My Father and before His malakim.”
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#54
Salvation is not probation.
Eternal life is not temporary life.
Jesus is the door.
He is not a revolving door.
Your words sound more like bumper sticker theology then scripture.

Salvation is a promise offered to those who believe unto death. (Rev. 2:10)

Salvation is not promised to those who at some point in their lives believed in Jesus Christ. No matter how sincere that belief may have been.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#56
Salvation is a promise offered to those who believe unto death. (Rev. 2:10)

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

DJ2,

You have misunderstood the meaning of this verse. "The crown of life" is NOT the gift of eternal life, but a reward to the one who is faithful unto death. Christians will receive rewards and crowns for their service and their faithfulness at the Judgment Seat of Christ. But eternal life -- salvation -- is God's gift to the sinner who believes.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

A gift -- by definition -- cannot be earned as a reward.
Salvation is not promised to those who at some point in their lives believed in Jesus Christ. No matter how sincere that belief may have been.
Once again, you are mistaken. Read and study Romans chapter 4.

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness...Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,...He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;...And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

When God imputes the righteousness of Christ to the one who believes, He is deemed to be perfect, righteous, accepted by God, and justified by grace through faith. And that is salvation.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#57
Salvation is a promise offered to those who believe unto death. (Rev. 2:10)

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

DJ2,

You have misunderstood the meaning of this verse. "The crown of life" is NOT the gift of eternal life, but a reward to the one who is faithful unto death. Christians will receive rewards and crowns for their service and their faithfulness at the Judgment Seat of Christ. But eternal life -- salvation -- is God's gift to the sinner who believes.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

A gift -- by definition -- cannot be earned as a reward.

Once again, you are mistaken. Read and study Romans chapter 4.

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness...Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,...He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;...And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

When God imputes the righteousness of Christ to the one who believes, He is deemed to be perfect, righteous, accepted by God, and justified by grace through faith. And that is salvation.
"The crown of life" is NOT the gift of eternal life, but a reward to the one who is faithful unto death.
So the crown of life is not a metaphor for salvation but a earned reward? What value will these rewards have in heaven?
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
#58
Salvation is a promise offered to those who believe unto death. (Rev. 2:10)

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

DJ2,

You have misunderstood the meaning of this verse. "The crown of life" is NOT the gift of eternal life, but a reward to the one who is faithful unto death. Christians will receive rewards and crowns for their service and their faithfulness at the Judgment Seat of Christ. But eternal life -- salvation -- is God's gift to the sinner who believes.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

A gift -- by definition -- cannot be earned as a reward.

Once again, you are mistaken. Read and study Romans chapter 4.

For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness...Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all,...He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;...And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

When God imputes the righteousness of Christ to the one who believes, He is deemed to be perfect, righteous, accepted by God, and justified by grace through faith. And that is salvation.

We agree on something!! Who says miracles do not still occur! :)
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#60
So the crown of life is not a metaphor for salvation but a earned reward? What value will these rewards have in heaven?
If you recall all Christians are a Royal Priesthood. But all Christians are not equally and consistently faithful in their service and their willingness to be martyred for Christ. So the rewards will separate the faithful from the lackadaisical Christians for future service in the eternal Kingdom of God.

The twelve apostles will of course receive twelve thrones and will judge the twelve tribes of Israel. But the scope and extent of responsibilities in eternity (for all Christians) will depend on the rewards received. Thus we have some Christians who be "rulers over many things" and "enter into the joy of the Lord". The ones who were lazy and indifferent on earth will suffer loss, but will be still saved.

...His lord said unto him, Well done, thou good and faithful servant: thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord... His lord said unto him, Well done, good and faithful servant; thou hast been faithful over a few things, I will make thee ruler over many things: enter thou into the joy of thy lord... (Mt 26:21,25)

If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire. (1 Cor 3:15)