Speaking of Hornet's Nests...

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Depleted

Guest
#1
Cannot resist adding this today.

A meme under the heading of "Things Paul Never Said."


 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#3
Cannot resist adding this today.

A meme under the heading of "Things Paul Never Said."


In other words, When paul went to where he was told to go. He never had the choice to say, No Jesus I do nto believe you. He was prety much forced to say yes. :rolleyes: Because He had no free will
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#4
In other words, When paul went to where he was told to go. He never had the choice to say, No Jesus I do nto believe you. He was prety much forced to say yes. :rolleyes: Because He had no free will
A bright light that blinds you for days and a voice out of nowhere, and you ask the voice, who are you?? And the voice says, I'm Jesus. And you would have the ability to say, um, nope, I don't believe you???
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#5
That wouldn't be freewill it would be true insanity...
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#6
A bright light that blinds you for days and a voice out of nowhere, and you ask the voice, who are you?? And the voice says, I'm Jesus. And you would have the ability to say, um, nope, I don't believe you???
Isreal saw miracles beyond belief, Was trapped by the red sea, and crossed because of God, saw God supply them with manna, and saw the rock supply water not once but twice. Yet still did not enter his rest because they CHOSE to not believ

The pharisees saw Jesus rise lazarus from thre dead. And all the other mitracles christ did, yet still chose to crucify him.

so could paul have said no? I think we see from other examples he most certainly could have.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#7
Isreal saw miracles beyond belief, Was trapped by the red sea, and crossed because of God, saw God supply them with manna, and saw the rock supply water not once but twice. Yet still did not enter his rest because they CHOSE to not believ

The pharisees saw Jesus rise lazarus from thre dead. And all the other mitracles christ did, yet still chose to crucify him.

so could paul have said no? I think we see from other examples he most certainly could have.
Israel saw a miracle so huge you almost cant believe it. They saw walls of water just standing up, suspended, as they walked through dry. No one in their right mind would walk in under that if they weren't believing God that they were to cross and He would keep them safe. But THEN, their hearts became evil and unbelieving and mistrusting.

Er...ahem...I just lost my train of thought and what point I was trying to make EG...:D
 
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Depleted

Guest
#8
In other words, When paul went to where he was told to go. He never had the choice to say, No Jesus I do nto believe you. He was prety much forced to say yes. :rolleyes: Because He had no free will
Funny thing about Paul. He wasn't told to go anywhere. He talked them into letting him go for the specific purpose of killing Christians. I don't know who you would consider the worst bad guy in the world, but imagine you had the tenacity and experience to assassinate that guy. (First thoughts for me go to the leader of North Korea.) And so you go to Washington and actually talk them into letting you go and doing just that. Because "bad guy" and "really deserves to die to save so many people." That was Paul's mindset on that trip. In his mind, he was going after the likes of Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein. And we'd all be cheering him, had we known what he was up to.

In what free will scenario can you imagine being talked out of that mission?

AND, if you were actually able to be talked out of it, what words would have worked? Whatever they were, wouldn't it take hours to persuade you not to do that? And under which particular argument would you have been won over?

Now, Paul gets knocked off his ass and just a few sentences worked for him.

Was that his free will, or God's will?

You and I have something in common. We do NOT easily give in to changing our minds. Consider Saul up to this moment. Does he seem wishy-washy, and easy to change his mind too? Doesn't he seem more like us?

And yet -- zap! Mind changed! Really miraculous mind change too. He was off being Mr. Evangelist within half a year. Something really weird happened at that moment. And heavy-duty, no-holds-bar, rough-em-up debate wasn't it.

I really do believe in free choice. We are free to chose whatever we want only limited by our abilities and nature. (I can choose all I want to go to the moon, but I will never be going to the moon, limitations.)

Saul did not choose that light. He did not choose hitting the ground at that moment. He did not choose Jesus. Jesus chose him. And once he did that, then Paul freely chose Jesus too.

Same thing happened to me, minus blinding light and donkey ride. lol
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#9
Isreal, representing a nation of people were supposed to obey God. But how many of them were actually saved, or just on the run from mean Pharaoh?

Paul, and individual, called by God, in no uncertain terms, no decisions, ifs, maybes or buts. Just obey!

That is what happened when God saved me. One minute, I was unsaved, sitting in the front seat of a Blazer at night, talking to my future husband about God. God spoke, told me he was my Saviour and the Saviour of the world, and I must follow him. No decision, just an overwhelming joy that God had called me and made me his own.

Decisional regeneration and “free” will are myths from the pit of hell. By all means preach the gospel! It is the means God uses to save people. But never confuse the work the Holy Spirit must do in our hearts, with some petty decision to follow Christ, in your own strength.

Sad, people still believe God begs people to come to him, then has to stand back and wait until they do or do not make a decision to follow him. NO! God is sovereign in justification! He alone has the power to save!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10
Israel saw a miracle so huge you almost cant believe it. They saw walls of water just standing up, suspended, as they walked through dry. No one in their right mind would walk in under that if they weren't believing God that they were to cross and He would keep them safe. But THEN, their hearts became evil and unbelieving and mistrusting.

Er...ahem...I just lost my train of thought and what point I was trying to make EG...:D
If they believed and trusted God, they would have never doubted. Every time a situation came up. They doubted God. Time after time, God had to prove to them he was trustworthy, Time after time they kept seeing the miracles. And still when push came to shive, they doubted.

why? They may have belioeved God, but they never had FAITH in God.

Paul came out of his miracle and proived his faith was real by taking action, He was not perfect. Unlike the jews, He never doubted God and complained every time a situation arose where they were in tribulation or distress.


 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#12
Isreal, representing a nation of people were supposed to obey God. But how many of them were actually saved, or just on the run from mean Pharaoh?

Paul, and individual, called by God, in no uncertain terms, no decisions, ifs, maybes or buts. Just obey!

That is what happened when God saved me. One minute, I was unsaved, sitting in the front seat of a Blazer at night, talking to my future husband about God. God spoke, told me he was my Saviour and the Saviour of the world, and I must follow him. No decision, just an overwhelming joy that God had called me and made me his own.

Decisional regeneration and “free” will are myths from the pit of hell. By all means preach the gospel! It is the means God uses to save people. But never confuse the work the Holy Spirit must do in our hearts, with some petty decision to follow Christ, in your own strength.

Sad, people still believe God begs people to come to him, then has to stand back and wait until they do or do not make a decision to follow him. NO! God is sovereign in justification! He alone has the power to save!

Oh boy. So the tax collector who made a free will decision to get on his knees and call out for GFod to have mercy on his soul is a myth and fabrication.

Forgive me angela. But if you did nto chose to say yes to God. And ask him to apply his grace to your sins. Then I would question you

The fact is, even if this did happen as you say it did, YOU STILL had to chose to say yes God I believe you and by your grace I will fgollow. or say no God I do not believe you. And refuse to do what you say.

You still had to make a free will decision. God did not force you to say yes, or keep you from saying no. He will never push a person beyond their free will. Ever!
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#13
Funny thing about Paul. He wasn't told to go anywhere. He talked them into letting him go for the specific purpose of killing Christians. I don't know who you would consider the worst bad guy in the world, but imagine you had the tenacity and experience to assassinate that guy. (First thoughts for me go to the leader of North Korea.) And so you go to Washington and actually talk them into letting you go and doing just that. Because "bad guy" and "really deserves to die to save so many people." That was Paul's mindset on that trip. In his mind, he was going after the likes of Bin Laden or Saddam Hussein. And we'd all be cheering him, had we known what he was up to.

In what free will scenario can you imagine being talked out of that mission?

AND, if you were actually able to be talked out of it, what words would have worked? Whatever they were, wouldn't it take hours to persuade you not to do that? And under which particular argument would you have been won over?

Now, Paul gets knocked off his ass and just a few sentences worked for him.

Was that his free will, or God's will?

You and I have something in common. We do NOT easily give in to changing our minds. Consider Saul up to this moment. Does he seem wishy-washy, and easy to change his mind too? Doesn't he seem more like us?

And yet -- zap! Mind changed! Really miraculous mind change too. He was off being Mr. Evangelist within half a year. Something really weird happened at that moment. And heavy-duty, no-holds-bar, rough-em-up debate wasn't it.

I really do believe in free choice. We are free to chose whatever we want only limited by our abilities and nature. (I can choose all I want to go to the moon, but I will never be going to the moon, limitations.)

Saul did not choose that light. He did not choose hitting the ground at that moment. He did not choose Jesus. Jesus chose him. And once he did that, then Paul freely chose Jesus too.

Same thing happened to me, minus blinding light and donkey ride. lol

Paul got knocked off the ass, yes he did

Paul still had to chose to say yes or no. God did not force his will on Paul. Or force paul to say yes apposed to pauls will


Paul could have just as easily layed their in his Blind state and cursed God,
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#14
If they believed and trusted God, they would have never doubted. Every time a situation came up. They doubted God. Time after time, God had to prove to them he was trustworthy,
Uh...I got nothin really. You just described ME for 11 of the last 12 years...
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
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#15
When confronted by Gods Holy Spirit all self righteousness is seen as worthless. Who more self righteous than Saul of Tarsus?

What Paul experienced is what Jesus described in John 16:8-11.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#16
Uh...I got nothin really. You just described ME for 11 of the last 12 years...
So you continued in sin, continued in unbelief for 11 to 12 years? And never trusted in God in one area of your life?
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#17
When confronted by Gods Holy Spirit all self righteousness is seen as worthless. Who more self righteous than Saul of Tarsus?

What Paul experienced is what Jesus described in John 16:8-11.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Just remember, the passage the HS will convict the world. Yet the world will nto all be saved. So not everyone will be like paul .and take the leading of the spirit and say yes lord. Many more people will see it all (as in romans 1) and say no lord. Even though they KNOW they are guilty.
 
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#18
So you continued in sin, continued in unbelief for 11 to 12 years? And never trusted in God in one area of your life?
I was addressing your statement that if they believed and trusted God they never would have doubted.
I believed and trusted God that I would live forever but I doubted in many ways, including that He would take care of me temporally.

Which is basically what Israel did. They believed Him to save their lives through the water, but when testings like extreme thirst in the desert came, they didn't trust.

It's kind of insane really...believe for some ginormous thing like eternal life but then not believe for a much littler thing like temporal provision. But that was me.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#19
I was addressing your statement that if they believed and trusted God they never would have doubted.
I believed and trusted God that I would live forever but I doubted in many ways, including that He would take care of me temporally.

Which is basically what Israel did. They believed Him to save their lives through the water, but when testings like extreme thirst in the desert came, they didn't trust.

It's kind of insane really...believe for some ginormous thing like eternal life but then not believe for a much littler thing like temporal provision. But that was me.

Um no, they did not believe him to save their lives, He just did it. In spite of their unbelief. He told themflat out,. They would not enter his rest because of their unbelief.

They never showed change stunned, did you or did you not? Are you really going to say you were like the
m?
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#20
Um no, they did not believe him to save their lives, He just did it. In spite of their unbelief. He told themflat out,. They would not enter his rest because of their unbelief.

They never showed change stunned, did you or did you not? Are you really going to say you were like the
m?

If they didn't believe Him to save their lives, they would have been insane to step out in that water...