WHY WOULD GOD CARE MORE ABOUT WHAT WE BELIEVE THAN HOW WE LIVE FOR GOD?

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LaurieB

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2018
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#1
Thank you for your thoughtful replies.
 
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graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
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#2
This is not helpful.
You have several other threads current which are just asking the same thing with different wording....

You do know what is defined by doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result....
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
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#3
OP what you are doing is deliberately mixing (or stirring) up discord. It won't be the first time.
We'll put your name forward for the......


 

LaurieB

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2018
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#4
This is not helpful.
You have several other threads current which are just asking the same thing with different wording....

You do know what is defined by doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result....
Hi GraceNpeace:

No, I only started ONE thread and it was about : Once Saved, Always Saved? ... can you lose your salvation?
This is a completely different topic ... not the same question at all.

Have a lovely day.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#5
IOW you believe you're saved by works, not by faith...which shows you don't really understand the Gospel at all. God can make the light turn on for you though! :)
 

LaurieB

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2018
177
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#6
OP what you are doing is deliberately mixing (or stirring) up discord. It won't be the first time.
We'll put your name forward for the......


I am? It is a serious question. I am sure some people can answer it. If you wish to report me for asking a question, please do. A place where I cannot discuss my concerns/beliefs is a place I should not be.
Thank you for your comments.



 
Nov 23, 2013
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#7
Thank you for your thoughtful replies.
I think it's because belief is the only thing sinners like us are capable of doing on our own. We can chose to believe God or not but we need the power of the Holy Spirit to live the Christian life and those are His works and not ours.

If we let go and let God then we're walking in the spirit but if we try to do it ourselves then we're walking in the flesh.:)
 

LaurieB

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2018
177
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#8
IOW you believe you're saved by works, not by faith...which shows you don't really understand the Gospel at all. God can make the light turn on for you though! :)
No. that is not the question. Can you provide an answer? There must be an answer to this.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
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#9
Hi GraceNpeace:

No, I only started ONE thread and it was about : Once Saved, Always Saved? ... can you lose your salvation?
This is a completely different topic ... not the same question at all.

Have a lovely day.
Actually, it is.
Perhaps you really don't understand that..and perhaps not...

Nonetheless, every Christian (only born-again believers are Christians) knows that their works are as filthy rags before Him.
Understanding that, and the fact that one is saved purely and solely by grace through faith must be those beliefs you are questioning.

Trying to live for God when one is not part of the family (born-again) is infinitely more difficult than it is trying to work for Donald Trump when he has not hired you!
In fact it is impossible....
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#10
No. that is not the question. Can you provide an answer? There must be an answer to this.
Be honest; it is the question LaurieB. You do not accept nor do you understand the Gospel, and have taught others are saved without knowing Christ or the Gospel. Basically you believe people are good enough to "go to heaven" and don't need it. This is what you have taught throughout your posts.

Honestly, I don't even believe it's about people being saved, heaven, the Gospel, sin, salvation, repentance or any of that with you, your message appears to be that mankind is basically good while rejecting the truths of the Gospel.

You claim to be a "believer" yet you don't believe the Gospel at all, so whatever you believe is not biblical faith, nor is belief it in the Gospel. You believe in works salvation, that much is apparent, or at least that is the way you wish to make it appear.

Or, perhaps you don't even believe in the latter either. My take is you don't believe any of it and you're trying to get some traction here with your ideology. No true convert rejects the Gospel and believes people are relatively good and deserve eternal life. Your claim of believer falls short since you reject Biblical truth.
 

LaurieB

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2018
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#11
Well, lots of people have decided what I believe and think without knowing me. Of course, faith plays a huge role.
But, what I don't understand is why Jesus preached this: It is in the Gospel. It is the very heart of the Gospel.


Matthew 5-7 English Standard Version (ESV)

The Sermon on the Mount

5 Seeing the crowds, he went up on the mountain, and when he sat down, his disciples came to him.
The Beatitudes

[SUP]2 [/SUP]And he opened his mouth and taught them, saying:
[SUP]3 [/SUP]“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]“Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]“Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]“Blessed are the merciful, for they shall receive mercy.
[SUP]8 [/SUP]“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see God.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]“Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons[SUP][a][/SUP] of God.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]“Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]“Blessed are you when others revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. [SUP]12 [/SUP]Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you
Salt and Light

[SUP]13 [/SUP]“You are the salt of the earth, but if salt has lost its taste, how shall its saltiness be restored? It is no longer good for anything except to be thrown out and trampled under people's feet.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]“You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house. [SUP]16 [/SUP]In the same way, let your light shine before others, so that[SUP][b][/SUP]they may see your good works and give glory to your Father who is in heaven.
Christ Came to Fulfill the Law

[SUP]17 [/SUP]“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. [SUP]20 [/SUP]For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.
Anger

[SUP]21 [/SUP]“You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’ [SUP]22 [/SUP]But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother[SUP][c][/SUP] will be liable to judgment; whoever insults[SUP][d][/SUP] his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell[SUP][e][/SUP] of fire. [SUP]23 [/SUP]So if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, [SUP]24 [/SUP]leave your gift there before the altar and go. First be reconciled to your brother, and then come and offer your gift. [SUP]25 [/SUP]Come to terms quickly with your accuser while you are going with him to court, lest your accuser hand you over to the judge, and the judge to the guard, and you be put in prison. [SUP]26 [/SUP]Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny.[SUP][f][/SUP]
Lust

[SUP]27 [/SUP]“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ [SUP]28 [/SUP]But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart. [SUP]29 [/SUP]If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell. [SUP]30 [/SUP]And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. For it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body go into hell.
Divorce

[SUP]31 [/SUP]“It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ [SUP]32 [/SUP]But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Oaths

[SUP]33 [/SUP]“Again you have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not swear falsely, but shall perform to the Lord what you have sworn.’ [SUP]34 [/SUP]But I say to you, Do not take an oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, [SUP]35 [/SUP]or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King.[SUP]36 [/SUP]And do not take an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. [SUP]37 [/SUP]Let what you say be simply ‘Yes’ or ‘No’; anything more than this comes from evil.[SUP][g][/SUP]
Retaliation

[SUP]38 [/SUP]“You have heard that it was said, ‘An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.’[SUP]39 [/SUP]But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. [SUP]40 [/SUP]And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic,[SUP][h][/SUP] let him have your cloak as well. [SUP]41 [/SUP]And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. [SUP]42 [/SUP]Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Love Your Enemies

[SUP]43 [/SUP]“You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ [SUP]44 [/SUP]But I say to you, Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, [SUP]45 [/SUP]so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. [SUP]46 [/SUP]For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? [SUP]47 [/SUP]And if you greet only your brothers,[SUP][i][/SUP] what more are you doing than others? Do not even the Gentiles do the same? [SUP]48 [/SUP]You therefore must be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Giving to the Needy

6 “Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]“Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, [SUP]4 [/SUP]so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
The Lord's Prayer

[SUP]5 [/SUP]“And when you pray, you must not be like the hypocrites. For they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and at the street corners, that they may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. [SUP]6 [/SUP]But when you pray, go into your room and shut the door and pray to your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]“And when you pray, do not heap up empty phrases as the Gentiles do, for they think that they will be heard for their many words. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Pray then like this:
“Our Father in heaven,
hallowed be your name.[SUP][j][/SUP]
[SUP]10 [/SUP]Your kingdom come,
your will be done,[SUP][k][/SUP]
on earth as it is in heaven.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]Give us this day our daily bread,[SUP][l][/SUP]
[SUP]12 [/SUP]and forgive us our debts,
as we also have forgiven our debtors.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And lead us not into temptation,
but deliver us from evil.[SUP][m][/SUP]
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, [SUP]15 [/SUP]but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Fasting

[SUP]16 [/SUP]“And when you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites, for they disfigure their faces that their fasting may be seen by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. [SUP]17 [/SUP]But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,[SUP]18 [/SUP]that your fasting may not be seen by others but by your Father who is in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.
Lay Up Treasures in Heaven

[SUP]19 [/SUP]“Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust[SUP][n][/SUP] destroy and where thieves break in and steal, [SUP]20 [/SUP]but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also
[SUP]22 [/SUP]“The eye is the lamp of the body. So, if your eye is healthy, your whole body will be full of light, [SUP]23 [/SUP]but if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light in you is darkness, how great is the darkness!
[SUP]24 [/SUP]“No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money.[SUP][o][/SUP]
Do Not Be Anxious

[SUP]25 [/SUP]“Therefore I tell you, do not be anxious about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink, nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothing? [SUP]26 [/SUP]Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? [SUP]27 [/SUP]And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?[SUP][p][/SUP] [SUP]28 [/SUP]And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin,[SUP]29 [/SUP]yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.[SUP]30 [/SUP]But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?[SUP]31 [/SUP]Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ [SUP]32 [/SUP]For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. [SUP]33 [/SUP]But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]“Therefore do not be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.
Judging Others

7 “Judge not, that you be not judged. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. [SUP]3 [/SUP]Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? [SUP]5 [/SUP]You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]“Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.
Ask, and It Will Be Given

[SUP]7 [/SUP]“Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. [SUP]9 [/SUP]Or which one of you, if his son asks him for bread, will give him a stone? [SUP]10 [/SUP]Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a serpent? [SUP]11 [/SUP]If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask him!
The Golden Rule

[SUP]12 [/SUP]“So whatever you wish that others would do to you, do also to them, for this is the Law and the Prophets.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]“Enter by the narrow gate. For the gate is wide and the way is easy[SUP][q][/SUP] that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For the gate is narrow and the way is hard that leads to life, and those who find it are few.
A Tree and Its Fruit

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. [SUP]16 [/SUP]You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? [SUP]17 [/SUP]So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. [SUP]18 [/SUP]A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Thus you will recognize them by their fruits.
I Never Knew You

[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. [SUP]22 [/SUP]On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ [SUP]23 [/SUP]And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
Build Your House on the Rock

[SUP]24 [/SUP]“Everyone then who hears these words of mine and does them will be like a wise man who built his house on the rock. [SUP]25 [/SUP]And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house, but it did not fall, because it had been founded on the rock. [SUP]26 [/SUP]And everyone who hears these words of mine and does not do them will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand.[SUP]27 [/SUP]And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it fell, and great was the fall of it.”
The Authority of Jesus

[SUP]28 [/SUP]And when Jesus finished these sayings, the crowds were astonished at his teaching, [SUP]29 [/SUP]for he was teaching them as one who had authority, and not as their scribes.
 
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Nov 12, 2015
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#12
Thank you for your thoughtful replies.
I think He cares about both. He wants us to know Him. Since the only way TO Him is through Jesus, that's important.

I think what you are struggling with is the hypocrisy that would claim to follow Him when it is nothing like Him. And He will deal with that in men, but men will never get to that unless they are first born from above with the Spirit. Without the Spirit, what we have is men in varying degrees of conformity to the social norms (no hitting, kicking or spitting on, for the good of society). Societies laws don't make men good in their hearts, they just make men conformed for the good of and smooth functioning of, society.

But the Spirit, if a man doesn't quench Him, conforms a man in his heart, to be more and more like Jesus. It is a process and we have to bear with each other through it. Just as there are the terrible two's in babies, there are the terrible two's with born again men. (Just not so easy to pin down at a certain age.) You can't expect them to be born not soiling themselves ever. It doesn't work that way.

But as Paul said, if these things are yours and you are GROWING in them, you do well.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#13
Well, lots of people have decided what I believe and think without knowing me.
The above isn't really true, you're being a bit disingenuous as if persons can't know what you believe by directly going by what you've stated you believe and don't believe.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
#14
The title of this thread sounds like a strawman to discredit the mercy of God and try to glorify the works of man.



_______________

I believe the reason God chose to save His children (anyone who believes on Jesus and is born again by grace through faith) through His own works is ultimately in order to demonstrate His own character (love, mercy and perfect righteousness) to glorify Himself.


philippians 3
9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith

(living a life knowing we NEED Him and are thankful to Him for what HE has done.... taking comfort in what HE did... no glory to self)

_____________
romans 9
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.

31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.

32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;

33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
romans 10

3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

(those who believe THEY can earn what only He can provide.... glory to self... lack of understanding their own inability or how much they NEED Him)
 
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#15
There are some mature men in here Laurie. They walk by the Spirit and have grown in virtue (humility, longsuffering, patience, not reviling back, etc.) You don't see them arguing angrily. Men like...marc, oyster, cee. Then you see other men in other varying degrees. Some of them have tremendous knowledge, but they hurl insults and still let their flesh rise up in pride instead of letting that life die for their brother. You see the struggles of some but you also see improvement, even if it seems slow.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#16
Why is God more worried about saving mankind instead of how they live? Because God cares about us and wants to have a relationship with us. And because we have sinned, there is a seperation between us and God. The sin issue must be solved first. And the sin issue can only be redeemed one way.

Because God knows man is guilty, and because they are guilty, headed to hell. God also who is a just and righteous judge, says that sin must be punished. Not with acts of penance, But with BLOOD.

Adam and eve sinned, what did God do to cover them> Blood

Cain killed abel. Why? Abel gave blood. Cain gave human good

The law said blood must be shed for forgiveness of sin.

God is VERY worried about how we act. But if he does not SAVE us first. It does not matter how we act. We already fell short. Are fallingn short and will fall short of his righteopus demand (perfection)

religion will not save you. If you think your going to be allowe into heaven based on how good you are, you will not be happy when God tells you to depart from him, because he never knew you
 

LaurieB

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2018
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#17
The above isn't really true, you're being a bit disingenuous as if persons can't know what you believe by directly going by what you've stated you believe and don't believe.
What is not really true? I have been here one week. You have never met me. You do not know my heart. Please do not judge me. I am struggling with these questions. I ask the question because Jesus preached to us on how we are to try to be ... a change of heart achieved by believing Him and trying to do what He asks of us so clearly in The Sermon On the Mount. If I missed something there, and we are not to try it, then I guess I have missed the boat .
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#18
What is not really true? I have been here one week. You have never met me. You do not know my heart. Please do not judge me. I am struggling with these questions. I ask the question because Jesus preached to us on how we are to try to be ... a change of heart achieved by believing Him and trying to do what He asks of us so clearly in The Sermon On the Mount. If I missed something there, and we are not to try it, then I guess I have missed the boat .

If you look at the sermon, the first thing Jesus said blessed are the poor in spirit. The word poor there is a sad translation as it does not really articulate what Jesus was tryign to say. The word literally means bankrupt. It means you have come to your end, You have no place to go. You have to go to have your debts forgiven because otherwise you will be cast out.

This leads us to christ, and as we come to christ like the tax collector, bankrupt and hopeless. And ask him to show mercy on us, He adopts us into his family, And because of this, we are blessed.

The rest of the sermon is showing us as children of God how we shoudl act.

But salvation must come first. Otherwise the rest are meaningless
 
Dec 28, 2016
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#19
What is not really true? I have been here one week. You have never met me. You do not know my heart. Please do not judge me. I am struggling with these questions. I ask the question because Jesus preached to us on how we are to try to be ... a change of heart achieved by believing Him and trying to do what He asks of us so clearly in The Sermon On the Mount. If I missed something there, and we are not to try it, then I guess I have missed the boat .
LaurieB, please tell me how any of the above is relevant. How is it "judging you" when one is going by what you've stated you believe, don't believe and what you have posted? This is why I am saying you're being disingenuous and you are now pulling the sympathy card as if going by your statements is being judgmental.

If you're not going to be honest and own up, then just say so. If a person cannot go by your past remarks and beliefs, then you're not willing to engage in honest discussion. Going by what you believe and have stated isn't being in the flesh, nor is it not walking with God as another poster here has unfortunately and callowly asserted. Hopefully we can go on without this type of thing, I am trying to deal honestly here with your past remarks and beliefs.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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#20
What is not really true? I have been here one week. You have never met me. You do not know my heart. Please do not judge me. I am struggling with these questions. I ask the question because Jesus preached to us on how we are to try to be ... a change of heart achieved by believing Him and trying to do what He asks of us so clearly in The Sermon On the Mount. If I missed something there, and we are not to try it, then I guess I have missed the boat .
You will hear many testimonies by many men who have tried to be as they're told they should be. They will end their testimony by saying that no matter how hard they tried, the worse they seemed to get. They will tell you that only after they realized they could NOT do it, could not be good and holy, would always fail and get up and fail and get up, and finally said to Him, I leave it to You to make me good in my heart, if You don't do something, I will remain this way, that is when it turned around for them and they began to see victories over their pride, their tongue, their selfishnesses, etc.