Why are all men not saved?

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Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
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#1
1 Tim 2:3-4
3 This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

If God desires all men to be saved and grace is irresistible then why are not all men saved?​
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
55,809
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#2
[h=1]Romans 8:7 (KJV)[/h]
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is
not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
3,650
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#3
1 Tim 2:3-4
3 This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

If God desires all men to be saved and grace is irresistible then why are not all men saved?​
Grace is not irresistible when it comes to the lost, or do you have scriptural backing for that?
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
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#4
"Irresistible grace" is John Calvin's invention. It's definitely not found in the bible.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
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Australia
#5
1 Tim 2:3-4
3 This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

If God desires all men to be saved and grace is irresistible then why are not all men saved?​
I resisted for years until I could no longer kick against the goads - I don't know what a modern translation for kicking against the goads is lol
 

kaijo

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2017
355
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#6
1 Tim 2:3-4
3 This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

If God desires all men to be saved and grace is irresistible then why are not all men saved?​
Grace may be irresistible. But that doesnt mean its obtained automatically.

Just because you see a beautiful woman who u might find irresistible, doesnt mean that you can automatically obtain her.

You might find her irresistible. But then shortly after, learn that she has 2 young children as well. So then you say to yourself "Ahhh i REALLY want her....but...i cant be bothered taking care of her children as well. Forget that."

And so its the same way with mankind and the Lords grace. Some may desire to be with Him. But, then they learn about the things they will have to sacrifice / put away, in order to obtain His favor. Then they say to themselves "No i cant give up my ways, and the things i treasure dearly in this world! Grace is certainly appealing...but Forget that!"
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
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#7
Grace is not irresistible when it comes to the lost, or do you have scriptural backing for that?
I thought that was the I in T.U.L.I.P. 1 Tim 2:3-4 says "all men". No mention of anyone being lost. My question is why are there lost men. Are you saying grace is irresistible to some and not others?
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
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#8
I thought that was the I in T.U.L.I.P. 1 Tim 2:3-4 says "all men". No mention of anyone being lost. My question is why are there lost men. Are you saying grace is irresistible to some and not others?
Many don't even know about God's grace. Hence why most people will think I'll try and be a good person or I am a good person therefore when I die yeh sure, I'll be in heaven if it exists.

If you did a survey on unbelievers, I think most would say that if God does exist then He is an angry distant God who unobtainable.

I think that's why it's up to us to show the opposite.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,301
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Tennessee
#9
I resisted for years until I could no longer kick against the goads - I don't know what a modern translation for kicking against the goads is lol
I think that's a football term for kicking the ball through the uprights. It's called a field goal - worth 3 points. There is also the extra point attempt after a touchdown. If the ball is kicked through the uprights 1 point is awarded.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
10
18
#10
Grace may be irresistible. But that doesnt mean its obtained automatically.

Just because you see a beautiful woman who u might find irresistible, doesnt mean that you can automatically obtain her.

You might find her irresistible. But then shortly after, learn that she has 2 young children as well. So then you say to yourself "Ahhh i REALLY want her....but...i cant be bothered taking care of her children as well. Forget that."

And so its the same way with mankind and the Lords grace. Some may desire to be with Him. But, then they learn about the things they will have to sacrifice / put away, in order to obtain His favor. Then they say to themselves "No i cant give up my ways, and the things i treasure dearly in this world! Grace is certainly appealing...but Forget that!"
You seem to contradict yourself. You start off saying grace is irresistible but conclude describing someone who is resisting grace.
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
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Australia
#11
I think that's a football term for kicking the ball through the uprights. It's called a field goal - worth 3 points. There is also the extra point attempt after a touchdown. If the ball is kicked through the uprights 1 point is awarded.
Unfortunately I don't follow American or even Australian footy, translation fail lol

Edit: Nooow I see the humour!
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,301
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#12
1 Tim 2:3-4
3 This is good, and it is acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

If God desires all men to be saved and grace is irresistible then why are not all men saved?​
Not only that but it's both God's will and desire that all are saved. I don't believe that grace is irresistible according to scripture however. I'm not saying either that all are saved despite God's will and desire as scripture seriously implies that not all are saved. I do believe that it's possible but that's only my own hope and prayer that I cannot back that up with scripture save the part about what God's will and desire is regarding salvation.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
41,301
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#13
Unfortunately I don't follow American or even Australian footy, translation fail lol

Edit: Nooow I see the humour!
Thought I would toss a little humor in. I have no idea what a goad is or what it is you kick against. :)
 

kaijo

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2017
355
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#15
You seem to contradict yourself. You start off saying grace is irresistible but conclude describing someone who is resisting grace.
No contradiction here.

The conclusion isnt that a person is resisting grace.

The conclusion is that a person resists what it takes...to obtain grace.
 

Locutus

Senior Member
Feb 10, 2017
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#16
Gotta leave space for the wimin.
 

Metternich

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2018
216
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#17
I think the hole in the argument is that grace is not irresistible. When someone hears the Gospel God gives grace for them to believe. They then exercise free will to either cooperate with that grace or not.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
30,706
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#18
I thought that was the I in T.U.L.I.P. 1 Tim 2:3-4 says "all men". No mention of anyone being lost. My question is why are there lost men. Are you saying grace is irresistible to some and not others?
TULIP is an offshoot of Calvin's teaching it is not in Scripture. There are lost men due to Adam's initial rebellion and he spawned a lost race. God apparently did not use irresistible grace to stop Adam from sinning. Did He?
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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#19
But, according to OSAS proponents, it's not our choice to be saved or not. Lest we saved by a work of our own.

So according to that theory, GOD and God alone chooses who will be saved.