Mother Of God?

Jruiz · Mar 26, 2018

I left a comment on a youtube video. I said Mary is not the mother of God and by calling her that is misleading because God is eternal...I said that Mary was the mother of Jesus in the flesh. I got called a heretic,damn able Protestant...a moron...and then I got acused of Nestorianism?
Here's the definition: Nestorianism is a Christological doctrine that emphasizes a distinction between the human and divine natures of the divine person, Jesus. I'm Confused..and here is a comment someone wrote that really bothered me! hello! Mary has a very high status-she is the Queen of heaven! To say that She’s not the mother of God is a blasphemy in honor of Mary’s holy name. It’s just disrespectful to say that. Jesus, your God who redeemed you, chose Mary to be His mother -and your mother. DO NOT DISRESPECT YOUR HEAVENLY MOTHER!! I cringe for you. Jesus, the God who created you, loved His Mother so much. And you His creature would blaspheme Her and disrespects Her? That’s just shameful!!

I am no way trying to stir the pot between protestants and Catholics! I'm just really confused. Did I word it Wrong? And how can I say what i said and not be Nestorianism? Thanks.

DiscipleDave · Mar 26, 2018

Jruiz said:

Mary is blessed above all women, because she is the only human female to have the creator being born in her. But MOTHER, no. Even Jesus Himself said who is my Mother and Brother, but anyone who does the will of His Father is His MOTHER or Brother. So she most certainly was not special because she was His Mother. She was special because God chose her to come into this world by. He had to pick someone to accomplish that goal. Mary was chosen not only because she was virtuous, but because she had the blood line that Jesus needed to be born in. Mary is Blessed above all women, To bad the Catholics believe she is Blessed above all humans, which is simply not the TRUTH.
Catholics put her on a pedestal, even going as far as to say, she was a virgin her whole life, even though Scriptures plainly teach she had children, because Jesus had actual brothers. Jesus instructs us to pray to the Father, Catholics instruct us to pray to the Saints and to Mary, who is dead and sleeping, and can't hear a thing from the living, unless you have a seance and bring her back from the dead to speak with her. All Christians who die are sleeping until Christ Returns, they are those who rise first.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Nehemiah6 · Mar 26, 2018

Jruiz said:

No, you were certainly not promoting Nestorianism, but since Nestorius also believed that the title "Mother of God" (Theotokos) was not applicable to Mary, people accused you of what is not right about Nestorianism.

Here's a summation of Nestorianism from Theopedia. Nestorius was wrong in trying to separate the Divine and human aspects of Christ, but HE WAS RIGHT in condemning the title "Mother of God". "God" means either (a) God the Father or (b) the Godhead -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So Mary could not possibly be the Mother of God. She was the mother of Jesus of Nazareth.

Nestorianism is basically the doctrine that Jesus existed as two persons, the man Jesus and the divine Son of God, rather than as a unified person. This doctrine is identified with Nestorius (c.386-451), Patriarch of Constantinople, although he himself denied holding this belief. This view of Christ was condemned at the Council of Ephesus in 431, and the conflict over this view led to the Nestorian schism, separating the Assyrian Church of the East from the Byzantine Church.

The motivation for this view was an aversion to the idea that "God" suffered and died on the cross, be it the divinity itself, the Trinity, or one of the persons of the Trinity. Thus, they would say, Jesus the perfect man suffered and died, not the divine second person of the Trinity, for such is an impossible thought -- hence the inference that two "persons" essentially inhabited the one body of Jesus. Nestorius himself argued against calling Mary the "Mother of God" (Theotokos) as the church was beginning to do. He held that Mary was the mother of Christ only in respect to His humanity. The council at Ephesus (431) accused Nestorius of the heresy of teaching "two persons" in Christ and insisted that Theotokos was an appropriate title for Mary. (Theopedia)

Tommy379 · Mar 26, 2018

Catholics have a cult of Mary going on.

Jruiz · Mar 26, 2018

DiscipleDave said:

Mary is blessed above all women, because she is the only human female to have the creator being born in her. But MOTHER, no. Even Jesus Himself said who is my Mother and Brother, but anyone who does the will of His Father is His MOTHER or Brother. So she most certainly was not special because she was His Mother. She was special because God chose her to come into this world by. He had to pick someone to accomplish that goal. Mary was chosen not only because she was virtuous, but because she had the blood line that Jesus needed to be born in. Mary is Blessed above all women, To bad the Catholics believe she is Blessed above all humans, which is simply not the TRUTH.
Catholics put her on a pedestal, even going as far as to say, she was a virgin her whole life, even though Scriptures plainly teach she had children, because Jesus had actual brothers. Jesus instructs us to pray to the Father, Catholics instruct us to pray to the Saints and to Mary, who is dead and sleeping, and can't hear a thing from the living, unless you have a seance and bring her back from the dead to speak with her. All Christians who die are sleeping until Christ Returns, they are those who rise first.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Yeah..They obviously been raised up believing in the Marian dogmas. I can't believe how offended they got..thanks for your reply.

OneFaith · Mar 26, 2018

Jesus said “Before Abraham was, I AM.” Jesus is God’s Son, but They existed before any human being. Therefore, in order to truly be Jesus’s mother, Mary would have to have existed before humans also- which she did not, she was created just like the rest of us. We know that, aside from the physical, Jesus only had a Father. Because Colossians 1 says all the fullness of the Father dwells in the Son- this is not like us who are the offspring of a father and a mother. Only Jesus’s physical body came from Mary’s physical body- that’s all. That only makes her His mother in this life- not before or after this physical realm.

HeRoseFromTheDead · Mar 26, 2018

You are correct that Mary is the mother of Jesus. Jesus is the son of GOD, so that makes Mary the mother of the son of GOD. The term GOD alone is typically used in the NT to refer to GOD the father, so you were correct to say that Mary is not the mother of GOD.

Nestorianism considered Christ to be two separate people, which is ridiculous. It was an attempt to correct Mary worship that was starting to infiltrate the church.

Mary is only the mother of the children she had. Jerusalem above is Christians' mother.

But the Jerusalem above is free, which is our mother. Galatians 4:26

The Queen of Heaven is a pagan god.

Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem? The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead [their] dough, to make cakes to the Queen of Heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. Jeremiah 7:17-18

Noose · Mar 26, 2018

John 2: 3When the wine ran out, Jesus’ mother said to Him, “They have no more wine.” 4“Woman, why does this concern us? Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

Matt 12: 47Someone told Him, “Look, Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to You.” 48But Jesus replied, “Who is My mother, and who are My brothers?” 49Pointing to His disciples, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers.

Grandpa · Mar 26, 2018

Mary is not the mother of God.

But Catholics pray to her and give her worship.

Which is directly against scripture.

So they have to have an excuse for this. They have an excuse for all the things they do that are against scripture.

They elevate her as equal with God so that they would not be in error for their prayers and worship to her. But that is all wrong.

Did the Lord Jesus ever pray to Mary?
Did any of the disciples ever pray to Mary?
Did anyone in the bible pray to Mary?

No. But there used to be a strong hierarchy in nobility. The mother of the King "deserved" adoration and respect because of her position and influence of the King. The Catholic church used their religious influence to cause submission to themselves and nobility. They never fixed this obvious error even after there was no need for religion to continue trying to cause regular people to submit to "nobility".

The Catholic church used to put people to death for believing differently than what they taught. Nobility took advantage of that. It was about power over the people.

I think it probably still is.

Stunnedbygrace · Mar 26, 2018

DiscipleDave said:

Mary is blessed above all women, because she is the only human female to have the creator being born in her. But MOTHER, no. Even Jesus Himself said who is my Mother and Brother, but anyone who does the will of His Father is His MOTHER or Brother. So she most certainly was not special because she was His Mother. She was special because God chose her to come into this world by. He had to pick someone to accomplish that goal. Mary was chosen not only because she was virtuous, but because she had the blood line that Jesus needed to be born in. Mary is Blessed above all women, To bad the Catholics believe she is Blessed above all humans, which is simply not the TRUTH.
Catholics put her on a pedestal, even going as far as to say, she was a virgin her whole life, even though Scriptures plainly teach she had children, because Jesus had actual brothers. Jesus instructs us to pray to the Father, Catholics instruct us to pray to the Saints and to Mary, who is dead and sleeping, and can't hear a thing from the living, unless you have a seance and bring her back from the dead to speak with her. All Christians who die are sleeping until Christ Returns, they are those who rise first.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

DD, I have seen something in your post that has piqued my interest, but to have discussion about it would derail the thread and I have been desperately trying not to that to people with my curiosity. So I will start a new thread to ask my questions. I'll title it, Do We Sleep?

Depleted · Mar 26, 2018

Jruiz said:

I left a comment on a youtube video. I said Mary is not the mother of God and by calling her that is misleading because God is eternal...I said that Mary was the mother of Jesus in the flesh. I got called a heretic,damn able Protestant...a moron...and then I got acused of Nestorianism?
Here's the definition: Nestorianism is a Christological doctrine that emphasizes a distinction between the human and divine natures of the divine person, Jesus. I'm Confused..and here is a comment someone wrote that really bothered me! hello! Mary has a very high status-she is the Queen of heaven! To say that She’s not the mother of God is a blasphemy in honor of Mary’s holy name. It’s just disrespectful to say that. Jesus, your God who redeemed you, chose Mary to be His mother -and your mother. DO NOT DISRESPECT YOUR HEAVENLY MOTHER!! I cringe for you. Jesus, the God who created you, loved His Mother so much. And you His creature would blaspheme Her and disrespects Her? That’s just shameful!!

I am no way trying to stir the pot between protestants and Catholics! I'm just really confused. Did I word it Wrong? And how can I say what i said and not be Nestorianism? Thanks.

No. You simply forgot the Internet is full of trolls. Don't worry about it. You couldn't say it right for everybody if youre life depended upon it.

(Just finished an early-morning round with a troll myself. lol)

Lewiz · Mar 26, 2018

Jruiz said:

I left a comment on a youtube video. I said Mary is not the mother of God and by calling her that is misleading because God is eternal...I said that Mary was the mother of Jesus in the flesh. I got called a heretic,damn able Protestant...a moron...and then I got acused of Nestorianism?
Here's the definition: Nestorianism is a Christological doctrine that emphasizes a distinction between the human and divine natures of the divine person, Jesus. I'm Confused..and here is a comment someone wrote that really bothered me! hello! Mary has a very high status-she is the Queen of heaven! To say that She’s not the mother of God is a blasphemy in honor of Mary’s holy name. It’s just disrespectful to say that. Jesus, your God who redeemed you, chose Mary to be His mother -and your mother. DO NOT DISRESPECT YOUR HEAVENLY MOTHER!! I cringe for you. Jesus, the God who created you, loved His Mother so much. And you His creature would blaspheme Her and disrespects Her? That’s just shameful!!

I am no way trying to stir the pot between protestants and Catholics! I'm just really confused. Did I word it Wrong? And how can I say what i said and not be Nestorianism? Thanks.

You would be better off ministering to those that see than arguing with those who are blind.

Magenta · Mar 26, 2018

Grandpa said:

Excellent post

Jesus actually never even called Mary His mother, and Scriptures do not identify her as the second Eve as the RCC does, nor as the queen of heaven as the RCC does, nor as the mother of us all, as the RCC does, nor as an intercessor between man and God, as the RCC does. In fact, Scriptures says there is one intercessor between man and God,, the man Christ Jesus, and He instructed us to pray to the Father in heaven, not Mary.

Someone said that Mary was blessed above all women but this is wrong also, for she was blessed among women, not above them. Jesus corrected the woman who said Mary was blessed for having borne and suckled Him, saying, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

The RCC has elevated Mary to a degree that many find quite disturbing because it is so unBiblical, and teaches people to do things that go directly against Scripture.

Dino246 · Mar 26, 2018

The "mother of God" argument that the Catholics make is a "fallacy of equivocation". That mouthful means that they use a word or phrase to mean one thing in one place, and a different thing in another place. Here is the rationale...

- Jesus is God. (true, in an of itself)
- Mary is the earthly mother of Jesus. (again, true, in an of itself)
- Ergo (therefore), Mary is the mother of God. (not true)

The problem is that it implies that Mary is the mother of God in His entirety, which Christians reject, and/or somehow divine herself, which Christians also reject. At least some Catholics hold to the immaculate conception of Mary herself (not only of Jesus).

The simple fact that "mother of God" is so unclear makes it worthy of rejection. If the Catholics simply said, "mother of Jesus" there would be no problem. They like to venerate Mary and attribute to her all sorts of unbiblical abilities and roles, so this "mother of God" title goes right along with their other wacky ideas.

Jruiz · Mar 26, 2018

Lewiz said:

Yes,but in order to see their blindness you have to witness to them first..

I was shocked, I had Catholics coming at me from all angles. They realy love Mary..

Pemican · Mar 26, 2018

Jruiz said:

For the most part I would agree with your wording. Mary was blessed to be the mother of the humanity of Jesus. She believed in the coming messiah (many Jews and Pharisees did not) and she was in the line of David. She had a strong faith in God and willingly accepted His plan. Also her age and the timing of her upcoming marriage were a nice fit. Christ came in the fullness of time, a precise moment in the God's plan. But was she without sin? No! She was a normal woman with a sin nature just like any other and needed salvation. Her belief in the coming messiah shows that she recognized her own need of the savior.

As for the criticism you received, remember that religious people reject and hate Christ and those who follow the clear teaching of scripture. The Pharisees were extremely religious and rejected Christ in His presence. This rejection continues in every generation.

Magenta · Mar 26, 2018

Pemican said:

Mary was already considered married to Joseph, who is called her husband at the time she informed him of her conception via the Holy Spirit of God. I only want to clarify this point because it has been wrongfully stated by someone on this site that Jesus was born out of wedlock, and that is not true

“Because Joseph her husband was a righteous man and did not want
to expose her to public disgrace, he had in mind to divorce her quietly.”

(Matthew 1:19)

Depleted · Mar 26, 2018

Dino246 said:

The "mother of God" argument that the Catholics make is a "fallacy of equivocation". That mouthful means that they use a word or phrase to mean one thing in one place, and a different thing in another place. Here is the rationale...

- Jesus is God. (true, in an of itself)
- Mary is the earthly mother of Jesus. (again, true, in an of itself)
- Ergo (therefore), Mary is the mother of God. (not true)

The problem is that it implies that Mary is the mother of God in His entirety, which Christians reject, and/or somehow divine herself, which Christians also reject. At least some Catholics hold to the immaculate conception of Mary herself (not only of Jesus).

The simple fact that "mother of God" is so unclear makes it worthy of rejection. If the Catholics simply said, "mother of Jesus" there would be no problem. They like to venerate Mary and attribute to her all sorts of unbiblical abilities and roles, so this "mother of God" title goes right along with their other wacky ideas.

(Note to self: If I ever am given a choice for a debate team on CC, pick Dino first. He's got mad debate skills.)

Depleted · Mar 26, 2018

Jruiz said:

The weird part is Rome denied Mary as the queen of the universe for their doctrines, and yet, since they don't even teach their doctrines, most Catholics don't know where Mary fits into church doctrine. And by most, I'm including the priests and nuns.

Kind of like writing college textbooks, but making sure teachers don't know/shouldn't know the material to teach. And now the students think they know everything they're supposed to know.

If you're out to evangelize, I highly recomend sticking with the gospel -- we are sinners in need of Jesus -- otherwise, you're just going to go round and round on circles.

(I once tried proving to a Catholic... oh, btw, I was Catholic for the first 20 years of my life, and believed everything I wa taught, that Catholic's pray to saints. I even pulled out ads in the local paper to copy the prayers paid for to St. Jude so the Catholic could find something lost, and yet, the entire extent of the person's argument was, "You're wrong."

)

LPT · Mar 26, 2018

The only thing Mary contributed was the lining of the uterus for the vessel.

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