Elaboration on Christ Fulfilling the Waw

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Dec 28, 2016
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#21
Yet another thread designed to tell others the OP is keeping the Law? How rare, this Luke 18:9-11 attitude! :D
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#22
If you believe the law is DEAD, then you believe the Prophets are DEAD.

What the prophets said of Jesus Christ is forever true, and so it is of the Law as revealed by Jesus christ.

Now, you tell me what is wrong if I consult the laws God gave us to learn of prophesy, wisdom and udnerstanding not to mention the advent of Jesus?

There are too many here all too willing to find fault in believing Jesus christ. When He says He is not destoying the law but fulfilling it know that He is doing just that. No man, not group of men will ever change this.

Please do not offend the Holy Spirit by saying the law He has put in our inward parts is dead.........You know yourselves there is example of a believer a brother sinning unawares......take it from there and learn what you claim you have studied.
2 Corinthians 3:7-9
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

Does the Holy Spirit put Death and Condemnation in our hearts?

Nope. Because the 10 commandments aren't the law of God, they are the law of Moses. And they are given for a purpose.

This is the law of God, And this is what the Holy Spirit places in our hearts;
Galatians 5:22-23
[SUP]22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
[SUP]23 [/SUP]Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#23
Now, you tell me what is wrong if I consult the laws God gave us to learn of prophesy, wisdom and udnerstanding not to mention the advent of Jesus?
There's nothing wrong with consulting the law. It is fantastic.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#24
Jesus has taught all who believe Him this: Any who will teach against the least of these laws will be least in the Kingdom.

I do not want this for anyone, so please, read what Jesus teaches, how He approaches the law under grace, His very own grace given to us all, and by His example in obedience.

Do not say in your hearts you have Abraham for your Father if you cannot find pleasure in obeying God according to the teachings of His Son, His Only Son, given as ransom for all who are saved.

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes out of the Mouth of God.......ev ery wor.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#25
Jesus has taught all who believe Him this: Any who will teach against the least of these laws will be least in the Kingdom.

I do not want this for anyone, so please, read what Jesus teaches, how He approaches the law under grace, His very own grace given to us all, and by His example in obedience.

Do not say in your hearts you have Abraham for your Father if you cannot find pleasure in obeying God according to the teachings of His Son, His Only Son, given as ransom for all who are saved.

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes out of the Mouth of God.......ev ery wor.
What the law says

And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Leviticus 12:3

What Paul said

Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 1 Corinthians 7:19

Look! I, Paul, tell you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing! Galatians 5:2

Poor Paul...
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
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#26
it's good to see a thread about the waw. refreshing difference. way too many threads about keeping the law to be saved around here.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#27
You do not seem to read well, or you just do not read all of the OP.

What the law says
And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. Leviticus 12:3

What Paul said
Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God. 1 Corinthians 7:19

Look! I, Paul, tell you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing! Galatians 5:2

Poor Paul...
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#28
Another thing all should know.

There also is movement, for lack of a better word chice, that teaches when Jesus spoke to the Jews He was under the law and teaching the Word without the Gospel.

Everything Jesus teaches us, He taught to the Jews who would hear, and there i only One Gospel.....nothing different for the Jews for it is the Jew First............then the Greek.

Try not to fall into this pit...
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#29
Another thing all should know.

There also is movement, for lack of a better word chice, that teaches when Jesus spoke to the Jews He was under the law and teaching the Word without the Gospel.

Everything Jesus teaches us, He taught to the Jews who would hear, and there i only One Gospel.....nothing different for the Jews for it is the Jew First............then the Greek.

Try not to fall into this pit...
Jesus was teaching the new covenant and its law to sons of Abraham who were yet under the old covenant and it's law. So it was right that he told them to obey the old covenant law of Moses as long as it was in force, ie, until all righteousness was fulfilled.

All righteousness fulfilled

Seventy weeks have been determined upon thy people and upon the holy city for sin to be ended, and to seal up transgressions, and to blot out the iniquities, and to make atonement for iniquities, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy. ​ Daniel 9:24
 

Yahshua

Senior Member
Sep 22, 2013
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#30
Jesus was teaching the new covenant and its law to sons of Abraham who were yet under the old covenant and it's law. So it was right that he told them to obey the old covenant law of Moses as long as it was in force, ie, until all righteousness was fulfilled.

All righteousness fulfilled

Seventy weeks have been determined upon thy people and upon the holy city for sin to be ended, and to seal up transgressions, and to blot out the iniquities, and to make atonement for iniquities, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy. ​ Daniel 9:24
I don't think the following passage fully agrees with your point above regarding christ and law of Moses.

John 5:46-47

46 "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

I think Christ is establishing a link here.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#31
I don't think the following passage fully agrees with your point above regarding christ and law of Moses.

46 "If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

I think Christ is establishing a link here.
Yes, Moses did write about Christ who was coming to bring GOD's new law to Israel

I will raise up to them a prophet of their brethren, like thee [Moses]; and I will put my words in his mouth, and he shall speak to them as I shall command him. And whatever man shall not hearken to whatsoever words that prophet shall speak in my name, I will take vengeance on him. Deuteronomy 18:18-19

And that prophet came speaking in the father's name, but they rejected his words. Moses accuses them, but Jesus' words will judge them.

I [Jesus] have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me. If another should come in his own name, you would accept that one! How are you able to believe, [if you] accept glory from one another, and do not seek the glory [which is] from the only God? Do not think that I will accuse you before the Father! The one who accuses you is Moses, in whom you have put your hope! John 5:43-45

I have many [things] to say and to judge concerning you, but the one who sent me is true, and what I heard from him, these [things] I say to the world.” John 8:26

The one who rejects me and does not accept my words has one who judges him; the word that I have spoken will judge him on the last day. For I have not spoken from myself, but the Father himself who sent me has commanded me what I should say and what I should speak. John 12:48-49
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#32
.
  • All of the Temple laws? Done away.
  • Laws of sacrifice? Done away.
  • Clean laws? Done away.
  • The Priesthood? Done away.
  • Tithing? Done away.
  • Ten commandments? Done away.

There's only one thing that was written in stone - the 10 commandments
But if the ministration of death, written [and] engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious? 2 Corinthians 3:7-8

  • All of the Temple laws? Fulfilled
  • Laws of sacrifice? Fulfilled
  • Clean laws? Fulfilled
  • The Priesthood? Fulfilled
  • Tithing? Fulfilled
  • Ten commandments? Fulfilled

Matthew 5:17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets, I am not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Not done away (destroyed), but fulfilled!
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#33
  • All of the Temple laws? Fulfilled
  • Laws of sacrifice? Fulfilled
  • Clean laws? Fulfilled
  • The Priesthood? Fulfilled
  • Tithing? Fulfilled
  • Ten commandments? Fulfilled
Matthew 5:17: Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets, I am not come to destroy but to fulfill.

Not done away (destroyed), but fulfilled!
fulfilled = abolished, done away, obsolete. Once things have served/fulfilled their purpose they become obsolete and are put away.

I am merely reporting what the bible says. It does say explicitly that the 10 commandments were done away (καταργέω - to nullify the usefulness of, make obsolete; 2 Corintians 3:7), and that Jesus did not come to destroy (καταλύω - to disintegrate; Matthew 5:17) the 10 commandments. Two different words with two different meanings.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#34
There is nothing wrong with Jesus nor witth His use of words. He said He did not come to destroy but to fulfill...rendering the meaning of fulfill as to complet but not to destroy.

Why would He make a distinction if both words mean destroy? I should think our Lord know how to use vocabulary batter than you or I:
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#35
Where are hyou getting thses notions, teh Jews and the nations were yet condemned by the law, and He was preaching the only Gospel there is, His....do not come back with such contradictions of the Gospel, it is one and the same for all.

Jesus was teaching the new covenant and its law to sons of Abraham who were yet under the old covenant and it's law. So it was right that he told them to obey the old covenant law of Moses as long as it was in force, ie, until all righteousness was fulfilled.

All righteousness fulfilled
Seventy weeks have been determined upon thy people and upon the holy city for sin to be ended, and to seal up transgressions, and to blot out the iniquities, and to make atonement for iniquities, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal the vision and the prophet, and to anoint the Most Holy. ​ Daniel 9:24
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#36
fulfilled = abolished, done away, obsolete. Once things have served/fulfilled their purpose they become obsolete and are put away.

I am merely reporting what the bible says. It does say explicitly that the 10 commandments were done away (καταργέω - to nullify the usefulness of, make obsolete; 2 Corintians 3:7), and that Jesus did not come to destroy (καταλύω - to disintegrate; Matthew 5:17) the 10 commandments. Two different words with two different meanings.
We are probably just arguing word definitions and may believe about the same thing:

I think the law was fulfilled and brought to its completed goal by the coming of Christ. It is not destroyed or obsolete, but stands gloriously completed because it fulfilled its purpose in bringing us to Christ. Do we gain merit or brownie points by keeping the Law? Absolutely not! Christ has come and now we have what the law was aiming for: the new covenant. But I am not about to destroy, burn, put away, etc. the Old Testament. It is an imperative and important part of the story of Jesus Christ: fulfilled, but not destroyed!
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#37
There is nothing wrong with Jesus nor witth His use of words. He said He did not come to destroy but to fulfill...rendering the meaning of fulfill as to complet but not to destroy.

Why would He make a distinction if both words mean destroy? I should think our Lord know how to use vocabulary batter than you or I:
But fulfill does not mean "keep/do for merit"
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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#38
But fulfill does not mean "keep/do for merit"
Why not? Do you fulfill promises? Do you fulfill obligations?

Christ's keeping of the Law was indeed meritorious in the eyes of God the Father, since no man had ever kept the Law perfectly.

"Fulfilling the Law" has a very broad scope in Scripture.
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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#39
There is nothing wrong with Jesus nor witth His use of words. He said He did not come to destroy but to fulfill...rendering the meaning of fulfill as to complet but not to destroy.

Why would He make a distinction if both words mean destroy? I should think our Lord know how to use vocabulary batter than you or I:
So what happened with animal sacrifice?

It was fulfilled.

Which means Christians no longer do it or are required to do it because the Lord Jesus Fulfilled All the Law just like He said.

Same with the rest of the law.

Not one jot or one tittle will fall until ALL is fulfilled.

Its all or nothing. You can't just decide that some of it is fulfilled while some of it remains unfulfilled.

Otherwise, you sort of believe the Lord but maybe not all that He says.
 

Chester

Senior Member
May 23, 2016
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#40
So what happened with animal sacrifice?

It was fulfilled.

Which means Christians no longer do it or are required to do it because the Lord Jesus Fulfilled All the Law just like He said.

Same with the rest of the law.

Not one jot or one tittle will fall until ALL is fulfilled.

Its all or nothing. You can't just decide that some of it is fulfilled while some of it remains unfulfilled.

Otherwise, you sort of believe the Lord but maybe not all that He says.
Yes, I agree, but would add this:

Though we do not literally sacrifice, we do still need the "Lamb of God" as our sacrifice. So we need to be careful saying things such as sacrifices are obsolete or passed away! Absolutely not! I need His sacrifice today!