True Clarity for End Time Beliefs

[Depleted]

If you think understanding the correct interpretations of End Times beliefs is what saves you or makes you a Christian, understand this -- you are NOT saved nor a Christian. How do I know this? Because you're wasting your time arguing Bible without ever distracting yourself with something far less important to you -- God!

What a great trick this is -- distract Christians from God by talking about something kind of related, but has no bearing on God himself.

(Also clarity when you think arguing over gender roles, origins, "grace," calendars, "Which is worse"/nitpick over phrases in the Bible, instead of working toward clarity from the Lord, pamphleterring your cause de jour, OSAS, and propping yourself up as an authority makes you a Christian. Has anyone else ever noticed the vast majority of arguing on the BDF has everything to do with the Bible and yet very little to do with God himself? I get why the tare likes to do this, but do not get why the wheat joins in. And, sure, I've joined in, but because it, at first, seems real. It's not real. It's a game!)

 

[notuptome]

The end times have no bearing on God? So God's promises are not significant? Gods faithfulness is not about Him? God reveals Himself in His word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Nehemiah6]

If you think understanding the correct interpretations of End Times beliefs is what saves you or makes you a Christian, understand this -- you are NOT saved nor a Christian.

There is not a single Christian discussing End Times who believes that kind of nonsense. You will not find anyone claiming that the correct interpretation of the End Times makes anyone a Christian or saves anyone. So this is another straw man, and this is simply another rant. And then to call those who discuss end times as tares is not only insulting but totally unacceptable. Sounds like a lot of uncalled for bitterness and hatred.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And then there's the irony that virtually all of the OT prophecies that people think will be fulfilled in the future have already been fulfilled. What an epic waste of time.

 

[Nehemiah6]

And then there's the irony that virtually all of the OT prophecies that people think will be fulfilled in the future have already been fulfilled. What an epic waste of time.

What makes you think that all of the OT prophecies have already been fulfilled? Has the Kingdom of God been literally, physically, materially established on earth with Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords? Has this major prophecy already been fulfilled?

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13,14).

Do you really believe that the earth would be in the condition that it is if this prophecy had already been fulfilled?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

What makes you think that all of the OT prophecies have already been fulfilled? Has the Kingdom of God been literally, physically, materially established on earth with Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords? Has this major prophecy already been fulfilled?

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13,14).

Do you really believe that the earth would be in the condition that it is if this prophecy had already been fulfilled?

That prophecy only states that the son of man was brought to heaven in clouds and given a kingdom and great glory. It was fulfilled when the Jesus ascended in clouds to heaven to receive his kingdom from the father and sit at the right hand of GOD.

And [after Jesus] had said these [things], [while] they were watching, he was taken up, and a cloud received him from their sight. Acts 1:9​

This is what Daniel saw with less detail in Daniel 7:13-14.

And I saw in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures and in the midst of the elders a Lamb standing as though slaughtered, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent into all the earth. And he came and took [the scroll] from the right hand of the one who was seated on the throne. Revelation 5:6-7

And I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne and of the living creatures and of the elders, and their number was ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands times thousands, saying with a loud voice, ​“Worthy is the Lamb who was slaughtered to receive power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!” And I heard every creature that [is] in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and in the sea and everything in them saying, ​“To the one who is seated on the throne and to the Lamb [be] praise and honor and glory and might forever and ever.” Revelation 5:11-13​

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Here it is again in a parable. Jesus is obviously talking about himself, and the far country is heaven.

[Jesus] said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. Luke 19:12​

 

[Nehemiah6]

That prophecy only states that the son of man was brought to heaven in clouds and given a kingdom and great glory. It was fulfilled when the Jesus ascended in clouds to heaven to receive his kingdom from the father and sit at the right hand of GOD.

So you believe that even after Christ has established His Kingdom on earth, Satan is free to walk about seeking whom he may devour (as he is doing at the very moment), and that the nations are at war with each other, and sin and evil dominates this world? That would certainly be a very strange Kingdom of God. Take some time to study this instead of responding with incorrect, fanciful and misleading ideas.

​

 

[Blain]

Well I wouldn't go so far as to say such people are not saved or Christian they may just be confused or in a season of which they need to wake up from. But yes there are such people and I have come across some who are even going so far as to stock up supplies and canned foods as if they expect this huge wave of disaster to hit us any second.
Personally even if it does hit us I have more faith in God himself than I do a garage full of rations and supplies. Granted all it would take is a single emp to send us back to the dark ages but even so what happens when this said garage is destroyed? how will you protect your rations and supplies then?

The end times are indeed an important topic to understand but if it creates paranoia and fear then it has lost it's purpose, studying the end times is to prepare us for what is coming not fear it and it certainly does not make one saved even conspiracy theorists who don't give a dime about God study the end times to be able to piece together their conspiracies

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

So you believe that even after Christ has established His Kingdom on earth, Satan is free to walk about seeking whom he may devour (as he is doing at the very moment), and that the nations are at war with each other, and sin and evil dominates this world? That would certainly be a very strange Kingdom of God. Take some time to study this instead of responding with incorrect, fanciful and misleading ideas.

​

Daniel 7:13-14 doesn't say that any of that happens. But yes, the son of man will rule his kingdom from heaven until all his enemies are made his footstool. Then he will return and do things on earth that some of the OT prophecies mention.

A Psalm of David. YHWH said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool. Psalms 110:1​

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Here it is again in a parable. Jesus is obviously talking about himself, and the far country is heaven.

[Jesus] said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. Luke 19:12​

How we see things differently (and I think that's ok). I've always read that as The Lord going (from heaven) to a far country (earth) to receive his kingdom and to return (to heaven).

 

[Bladerunner]

The end times have no bearing on God? So God's promises are not significant? Gods faithfulness is not about Him? God reveals Himself in His word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Just a short note for this Thread

How many times does the Bible tell us that it is the WORD of GOD...not to be tampered with.

How many times does the Bible tell us that God Loves us and that is what He wants in return.....

How many times does the Bible tell us that Fulfilled Prophecy is to His Glory and not the actual fulfillment...

HOW many times.........How many times.......How many times.........etc.


I think people of the world are missing it....GOD is it...He is the Alpha and the Omega...He is the Beginning and the END...YOU would not be here today without that first breath of air HE gives your tiny lungs at the beginning of your life. To God, faithfulness and righteouness is everything. .. He did not fall away from Israel...It was they that fell away from HIM....It is not HE that commits sins but rather it is MAN who finds joy in committing sins on a daily basis.

How Arrogant can we get on a day to day basis.... As for that Murderer who He foreknew would Murder, He STILL gave it that Breath of Life in the Beginning. How great is that?????....as compared with a Mankind that kills entire groups of people because they THINK they are faulty in some way or the other.


How Arrogant can we Become between today and the beginning of Daniel's 70th week.... From what I am seeing the answer to that question is "Un-measureable".

The evil of Man has just begun and once the restrainer (Holy Spirit) is removed, it will get tenfold worse....I am glad and thank God daily that HE gave me the ability to NOT BE HERE on Earth during those days. Amen

Blade

 

[Nehemiah6]

Daniel 7:13-14 doesn't say that any of that happens. But yes, the son of man will rule his kingdom from heaven until all his enemies are made his footstool. Then he will return and do things on earth that some of the OT prophecies mention.

As I said, take some time to study the matter. You started out by saying that it was a waste of time to study the end times because everything had ALREADY been fulfilled. Also, you have not tried to digest the prophecy of Daniel and responded with a superficial response. But now you are willing to admit that Jesus will return to fulfil some of the prophecies. So once again, it is clear that you have never taken the time to seriously study the prophecies in the Bible. And neither has Depleted, who started off with a rant instead of frankly admitting that she has never studied this matter properly either. But to add insult to injury she has labeled students of Bible prophecy as "tares".

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

As I said, take some time to study the matter. You started out by saying that it was a waste of time to study the end times because everything had ALREADY been fulfilled. Also, you have not tried to digest the prophecy of Daniel and responded with a superficial response. But now you are willing to admit that Jesus will return to fulfil some of the prophecies. So once again, it is clear that you have never taken the time to seriously study the prophecies in the Bible. And neither has Depleted, who started off with a rant instead of frankly admitting that she has never studied this matter properly either. But to add insult to injury she has labeled students of Bible prophecy as "tares".

No, I said virtually every OT prophecy has been fulfilled, not all. There's still a lot to be fulfilled in Revelation. I've actually studied the matter quite a bit. That's why I can say that trying to fit the present or future into most OT prophecy is a big waste of time.

 

[dcontroversal]

So you believe that even after Christ has established His Kingdom on earth, Satan is free to walk about seeking whom he may devour (as he is doing at the very moment), and that the nations are at war with each other, and sin and evil dominates this world? That would certainly be a very strange Kingdom of God. Take some time to study this instead of responding with incorrect, fanciful and misleading ideas.

​

Consider the source and religion being represented.............................

 

[iamsoandso]

The issue I think are the tares being permitted to grow in the same field until the harvest with the wheat. There is the first resurrection of the dead and the second death hath no part, then the second resurrection of the dead who are judged out of the books. Now how is it so that the final day of judgment has come for the one while the day of judgment for the other is future tense? lol I like this part of a given thread,I'll watch to see whee it goes...

 

[Bladerunner]

No, I said virtually every OT prophecy has been fulfilled, not all. There's still a lot to be fulfilled in Revelation. I've actually studied the matter quite a bit. That's why I can say that trying to fit the present or future into most OT prophecy is a big waste of time.

Study some more,,,it fits like a glove without having remove or add to the scriptures....

 

[Josie223]

The message behind understanding/interpreting end times signs for the christians is first and foremost to create awareness to the fact that Jesus will come again. Understanding it doesn't safe, it helps the saved to be ready for the Lords coming.More importantly, believers are to spread the good news (Matthew 28:19-20, Mark 16:15-16) the great commission, telling others that Jesus is soon coming (no matter how long that "soon" may be). Though we know not the hour nor the day, He gave us signs (Matthew 24) - these to prepare believers to be alert and alert the unsafe for His second coming. The sign of the beast of Rev 13: 16-18 (if you are not aware if its existence you may take it), and no one receiving this sign has part to eternal life.Our faith in Christ is baseless and of no use if there is no rapture, if there is not resurrection, and if there are no eternities!Be alert & alert others

 

[tanakh]

There is not a single Christian discussing End Times who believes that kind of nonsense. You will not find anyone claiming that the correct interpretation of the End Times makes anyone a Christian or saves anyone. So this is another straw man, and this is simply another rant. And then to call those who discuss end times as tares is not only insulting but totally unacceptable. Sounds like a lot of uncalled for bitterness and hatred.

Really? I agree that I have never seen any plain direct statement from anyone on this site coming straight out with it but a number of posts infer it. All from people who believe in the Pre tribulation Rapture/Dispensationalist view.

Please refer to the Thread ''The Rapture of the church is not Biblical'' for my recent first hand experience.

Post 97 from Awatukee who lumps me together with people who discredit those who are looking forward and anticipating the promise of the Lord and the Blessed hope. Something any Christian would believe in whatever their view on the last things. I can only conclude that he dosn't think I am one

Post 121 from Bladerunner who wades in with my'' 40 wasted years of unbelief''.

In Post 132 I asked for clarification as to whether my unbelief in the Pre Trib Rapture or belief in Christ was being referred to. I never received a reply.

Post 136 Here I post a copy of the Nicene Creed as a way of stating my beliefs. Please note the creed is not found in the Bible. I know how sensitive you are regarding extra biblical material.

 

[valiant]

What makes you think that all of the OT prophecies have already been fulfilled? Has the Kingdom of God been literally, physically, materially established on earth with Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords? Has this major prophecy already been fulfilled?

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. (Dan 7:13,14).

Do you really believe that the earth would be in the condition that it is if this prophecy had already been fulfilled?

He was given the kingdom. Now He is dealing with the rebellion within it. This will lead up to the new heaven and new earth and the position described