The Forty Pre-Ascension Days

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WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
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#1
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Acts 1:1-3 . . The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus
began to do and teach, until the day when he was taken up, after he had by
the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom he had chosen. To these
he also presented himself alive, after his suffering, by many convincing
proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days, and speaking of the
things concerning the kingdom of God.

That's fine that Jesus showed himself alive to the apostles by many
convincing proofs; but where's our proofs? How are his followers today
supposed to be convinced Jesus is alive?

Mark Twain once remarked that faith is believin' what you know ain't so.

He also remarked that it ain't what you know that gets you into trouble. It's
what you know for sure that just ain't so.

/
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,446
12,931
113
#2
- How are his followers today supposed to be convinced Jesus is alive?
Jesus already gave you the answer. Here it is.

Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed. (John 20:29).

Paul said that we walk by faith not by sight. So the proof is in the changed lives of those who have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
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#3
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Paul said that we walk by faith not by sight.
It's amazing the things that people are willing to believe sans convincing
proofs merely because it's written in a holy book; e.g. Koran, Bible, Rig
Veda, Tripitaka, and Book of Mormon.

Using a holy book's claims to prove a holy book's claims are true is what's
called circular reasoning. It's sort of like a judge releasing an accused felon
on the basis of him swearing he didn't do it.

/
 
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Bladerunner

Senior Member
Aug 22, 2016
3,076
59
48
#4
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Acts 1:1-3 . . The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus
began to do and teach, until the day when he was taken up, after he had by
the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom he had chosen. To these
he also presented himself alive, after his suffering, by many convincing
proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days, and speaking of the
things concerning the kingdom of God.

That's fine that Jesus showed himself alive to the apostles by many
convincing proofs; but where's our proofs? How are his followers today
supposed to be convinced Jesus is alive?

Mark Twain once remarked that faith is believin' what you know ain't so.

He also remarked that it ain't what you know that gets you into trouble. It's
what you know for sure that just ain't so.

/
"but where's our proofs? How are his followers today
supposed to be convinced Jesus is alive?"


simply read Matthew 28 for one gospel. there are others,.If you don't have faith in that then you got bigger problems than worrying what everyone else believes.
 

FlSnookman7

Senior Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,125
135
63
#5
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It's amazing the things that people are willing to believe sans convincing
proofs merely because it's written in a holy book; e.g. Koran, Bible, Rig
Veda, Tripitaka, and Book of Mormon.

Using a holy book's claims to prove a holy book's claims are true is what's
called circular reasoning. It's sort of like a judge releasing an accused felon
on the basis of him swearing he didn't do it.

/
If one knows the author it then is not "circular reasoning".
 

trofimus

Senior Member
Aug 17, 2015
10,684
794
113
#6
I think the answer is the Holy Spirit. So its a person who convicts for Christ, not just events or information.

Some can be touched by the Holy Spirit when reading the Bible.

Some can be touched by the Holy Spirit when studying the Universe.

Some can be touched by the Holy Spirit when searching for evidences about Christ.

Some can be touched by the Holy Spirit on internet, in a song, in a preaching, in a witnessing of other Christian etc. Church is also spreading the knowleged of Christ, not just Bible.

Some can be touched by the Holy Spirit in various life events, in a disease, death of somebody close.

Some can be touched by diving into some good philosophy.

Some can be touched in near death experience.

Etc.

Such things are just His tools. He is the root of all sincere conversions.
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#7
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If one knows the author it then is not "circular reasoning"
Interesting. So you've been having close encounters of a third kind with Jesus Christ? I'm curious about the tone of his voice. Is he a bass, or a baritone, or a tenor? And what color is his skin; is it brown, black, white, or whatever?

I get just a little fed up with people claiming to know Jesus Christ when they've never met the man in person even one time in their whole lives nor so much as heard his actual speaking voice with their own ears. Maybe next time their Jesus shows up, he'll pose for a selfie. Awww-Haw-Haw-Haw-Haw-Hawwwww. :rolleyes:

/
 
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WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#8
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Maybe next time their Jesus shows up, he'll pose for a selfie.
BTW: It can't be a regular Jesus selfie. It has to be a selfie of the resurrected Jesus to count. Just thought I'd better throw that condition in there lest people get too carried away.

/
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#9
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I think the answer is the Holy Spirit, yada, yada, yada.
What empirical evidence is there to prove that such a being even exists let
alone does all those things you claim for it?

The fact of the matter is: You believe such a being exists because your holy book
says so. In other words: your faith isn't in a verifiable person, it's in ink and paper.

/
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#10
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simply read Matthew 28 for one gospel. there are others,. If you don't have
faith in that then you got bigger problems than worrying what everyone else
believes.
No doubt Muslims would tell me something similar to your comment for not
having faith in a particular chapter of the Koran.

/
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#11
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1Cor 9:1 . . Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?

Well; if Paul wasn't telling the truth about his close encounter of a third kind
with Jesus, then people today relying upon his writings, who've never seen
Jesus for themselves; are no less gullible than Jim Jones' followers.

1Cor 15:13-17 . . If Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless
and so is your faith. More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses
about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the
dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. For if the
dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either. And if Christ has
not been raised, your faith is futile.

/
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#12
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Luke 23:43 . . Jesus answered him: I tell you the truth; today you will be
with me in paradise.

Three days later, after passing away on the cross and rising from the dead;
Jesus said:

John 20:17 . . Jesus said: Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet
returned to the Father.

So; where was this paradise about which Jesus spoke in Luke 23:43?

There's a paradise in heaven (Rev 2:7) but I don't think Jesus was there
because according to Ps 16:8-10, Matt 12:40, and Acts 2:25-31, Jesus soul
was in the netherworld; which, according to the second chapter of Jonah, is
down rather than up.

The only paradise that I'm aware of located in the netherworld is the area
where Lazarus and Abraham were situated during the event recorded in
Luke 16:19-31.

/
 

breno785au

Senior Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,002
764
113
39
Australia
#13
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Acts 1:1-3 . . The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus
began to do and teach, until the day when he was taken up, after he had by
the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom he had chosen. To these
he also presented himself alive, after his suffering, by many convincing
proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days, and speaking of the
things concerning the kingdom of God.

That's fine that Jesus showed himself alive to the apostles by many
convincing proofs; but where's our proofs? How are his followers today
supposed to be convinced Jesus is alive?

Mark Twain once remarked that faith is believin' what you know ain't so.

He also remarked that it ain't what you know that gets you into trouble. It's
what you know for sure that just ain't so.

/
The answers in my spirit brother!

My spirit agrees Jesus is alive!
 
Sep 3, 2016
6,337
527
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#14
Jesus Christ (Grace) lives in the spiritual heart of a born-again Believer through the power of the Holy Spirit when the Believer place and maintain their Faith exclusively in Christ and the Finished Work at Calvary's Cross. As the scripture says and as a witness daily, Christ will manifest Himself to you (John 14:21).

And from there He arose and went away to the region of Tyre and Sidon. And He entered a house and did not want anyone to know, yet He could not be hidden (Mark 7:24).
 
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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,446
12,931
113
#15
Well; if Paul wasn't telling the truth about his close encounter of a third kind with Jesus, then people today relying upon his writings, who've never seen Jesus for themselves; are no less gullible than Jim Jones' followers.
In view of what you are posting in this thread -- which is simply UNBELIEF -- what is your empirical evidence? And if you don't have any then why are you presenting yourself as a Christian? You should come right ought and say what you really believe.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#16
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Acts 1:1-3 . . The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus
began to do and teach, until the day when he was taken up, after he had by
the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom he had chosen. To these
he also presented himself alive, after his suffering, by many convincing
proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days, and speaking of the
things concerning the kingdom of God.

That's fine that Jesus showed himself alive to the apostles by many
convincing proofs; but where's our proofs? How are his followers today
supposed to be convinced Jesus is alive?

Mark Twain once remarked that faith is believin' what you know ain't so.

He also remarked that it ain't what you know that gets you into trouble. It's
what you know for sure that just ain't so.

/
“Now Thomas, one of the twelve, called the Twin, was not with them when Jesus came.25 So the other disciples told him, “We have seen the Lord.” But he said to them, “Unless I see in his hands the mark of the nails, and place my finger into the mark of the nails, and place my hand into his side, I will never believe.

26 Eight days later, his disciples were inside again, and Thomas was with them. Although the doors were locked, Jesus came and stood among them and said, “Peace be with you.”27 Then he said to Thomas, “Put your finger here, and see my hands; and put out your hand, and place it in my side. Do not disbelieve, but believe.”28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”29 Jesus said to him, “Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#17
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what is your empirical evidence?
I haven't always been a Protestant. I started out in life baptized an infant
into the Roman Catholic Church; and subsequently went on to catechism
where I completed First Holy Communion and Confirmation.

Though I kept my Catholic identity for twenty-four years, I gave up on the
religion itself way before that because it's just too hard to get to heaven that
way.

Ironically, though I had listened to a pretty good number of homilies in
Sunday morning masses, my mind never actually "heard" the gospel till it
was preached to me by a Baptist minister while I was at work in a welding
shop in Vancouver Washington.

Long story short: I was saved in a Conservative Baptist church in 1968, and
immersion-baptized by a Conservative Baptist minister in 1978.

Christ must've figured I was a borderline case because my conversion
experience was very disturbing. I dare not tell you what happened to me
that day when I was saved because were I to reveal the particulars of that
incident; you guys would no doubt write me off as twice the kook I already
am around here. Suffice it to say that I know for myself that the verse below
is 110% true and reliable.

"The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God"
(Rom 8:16)

The koiné Greek word translated "bears witness" is summartureo (soom
mar-too-reh'-o) which means: to corroborate by (concurrent) evidence.

You know, I suspect that the faith of a pretty good number of today's
Christians is being upheld by the power of positive thinking more than
anything else.

/
 
L

LPT

Guest
#18
Hmm interesting I've always believed it was several times down during the 40 days.
 

Shc

Member
Jul 12, 2017
49
3
8
#19
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Acts 1:1-3 . . The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus
began to do and teach, until the day when he was taken up, after he had by
the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom he had chosen. To these
he also presented himself alive, after his suffering, by many convincing
proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days, and speaking of the
things concerning the kingdom of God.

That's fine that Jesus showed himself alive to the apostles by many
convincing proofs; but where's our proofs? How are his followers today
supposed to be convinced Jesus is alive?


Mark Twain once remarked that faith is believin' what you know ain't so.

He also remarked that it ain't what you know that gets you into trouble. It's
what you know for sure that just ain't so.

/
Can you please read my blog... I have only one. I am a follower of Jesus and while it maybe not be the kind of proof you seek......it is my insight of Jesus' divine presence in the present time...hope that helps..
 

WebersHome

Senior Member
Dec 9, 2014
1,940
32
0
#20
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According to Ps 16:8-10, Matt 12:40, and Acts 2:25-31, Christ's soul was in
the netherworld while waiting for his body's resurrection. And according to
Luke 23:43, the location was a paradise.

The only paradise I know of that satisfies those criteria is the afterlife site
where Abraham was residing in the story that's told at Luke 16:19-31. The
story is commonly referred to as a parable; but I kinda have my doubts
about it being a parable for a number of reasons.

Fiction can be defined as stories about people, places, and events that,
though untrue; are plausible; viz: realistic.

Fantasy can be defined as stories about people, places, and events that are
not only untrue; but implausible; viz: unrealistic.

For example: a story about a wooden boy like Pinocchio is unrealistic; while
a story about a boy with autism is realistic. The difference between Pinocchio
and the autistic boy is that the one is compatible with normal reality; while
the other is far removed from normal reality.

I have yet to read even one of Jesus Christ's usual parables that couldn't
possibly be a real-life story. They're all actually quite believable-- banquets,
stewards, weddings, farmers sowing seed, pearls, lost sheep, fish nets,
women losing coins, sons leaving home, wineskins bursting, tares among the
wheat, leavened bread, barren fig trees, the blind leading the blind, et al.

Now; if Christ had told a story that alleged the moon was made of green
cheese; we would have good reason to believe that at least that one was
fantasy; but none of his usual parables are like that. No; there's nothing out
of the ordinary them. At best; Christ's usual parables might qualify as
fiction; but never fantasy because none of them are so far removed from the
normal round of human experience that they have no basis in reality
whatsoever.

I think it is very safe to conclude that if Luke 16:19-31 were in fact a
parable, it would at least be based upon reality because it would be
inconsistent for all the other stories Jesus told to be realistic and then have
him tell just the one that's not.

The parable theory has a fatal flaw. Abraham is not a fictional character:
he's a real-life man; the father of the Hebrew people, held in very high
esteem by at least three of the world's prominent religions: Judaism,
Christianity, and Islam. And he's also the friend of God (Isa 41:8). I simply
cannot believe that Jesus Christ-- a man famous among normal Christians
for his honesty and integrity --would say something untrue about a famous
real-life man; especially about one of his Father's buddies.

And on top of that, the story quotes Abraham a number of times. Well; if the
story is untrue, then Jesus Christ is on record testifying that Abraham said
things that he didn't really say; which is a clear violation of the
commandment that prohibits bearing false witness.

There is something else to consider.

The story of the rich man and Lazarus didn't originate with Jesus Christ. No,
it originated with his Father. In other words: Jesus Christ was micro
managed.

John 3:34 . . He whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God

John 8:26 . . He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those
things which I have heard of him.

John 8:28 . . I do nothing of myself; but as my Father hath taught me, I
speak these things.

John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

John 14:24 . .The word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which
sent me.

So, by alleging that Luke 16:19-31 is fiction/fantasy, the parable theory
slanders God by insinuating that He's a person of marginal integrity who
can't be trusted to tell the truth about people, not even about His own
friends.

/