Are Holy Spirit baptisms claims provable?

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DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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#21
Power is the sign of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.


When a person is effective, spiritually, and displays some kind of supernatural connection with God they probably have the baptism of the Holy Spirit.


"8but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you"-Acts 1:8
displays some kind of supernatural connection with God
What does this mean??
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
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#22
A good start but Jesus explains how it is and always will be

17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name
shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly
thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick,
and they shall recover.
19 So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up
into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.
20 And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord
working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.
Mark 16:

The problem is unbelief and denial of the truth of scripture.
If these are the signs, why isn't it being done?
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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#23
If these are the signs, why isn't it being done?
I think because...we may be the church to whom He said, you have little strength but you have not denied Me.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
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#24
I think because...we may be the church to whom He said, you have little strength but you have not denied Me.
If these are the signs of the believers and the church is the body of believers should not these events be active? Either there are no true churches today or the signs of Mark 16 are not for today.
 

Joidevivre

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,838
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#25
When a person is filled with the Holy Spirit, the evidence is that they soon express His fruits of love, joy, peace, endurance, etc. in their lives. The nature of Christ is seen in their actions and speech, even though they still are with faults and habits that will be slowly dealt with as time goes by.

I know that I felt love in a new way - predominant was the experience of His love for me. It overwhelmed me! I also loved others in a gentler, more sacrificial way. People around me saw this. Didn't Jesus even say "By their fruits you will know them?"
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#26
displays some kind of supernatural connection with God
What does this mean??
God shows himself in what they do. For example, they may be noted for praying for others with success. They may be noted for successful evangelism. They are noted for possessing spiritual power in one or more of it's various forms and it seems to come natural to them. They may be noted for having just the right counsel, or passage of scripture to share. They may be particularly able to direct the affairs of the church. They may have a special ability to meet the needs of others exactly as needed, and beyond.

But maybe the most important thing that sets the person who is baptized in the Holy Spirit apart is they are noted for possessing supernatural qualities of character, mainly love. Not our human conditional, selfish love. God's supernatural, other worldly love. They love in situations and circumstances that humans normally do not, without consideration of payback or personal preference. And usually do it with joy.

The bottom line is, when you see something 'out of this world', meaning not normal to what we humans do and are capable of, and they aren't contradicting the truths of God, you can be sure you're probably dealing with a Holy Spirit baptized person who is intimately acquainted with God.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#27
When a person is filled with the Holy Spirit, the evidence is that they soon express His fruits of love, joy, peace, endurance, etc. in their lives. The nature of Christ is seen in their actions and speech, even though they still are with faults and habits that will be slowly dealt with as time goes by.

I know that I felt love in a new way - predominant was the experience of His love for me. It overwhelmed me! I also loved others in a gentler, more sacrificial way. People around me saw this. Didn't Jesus even say "By their fruits you will know them?"
We seem to be in the same vein of discernment.

I noticed that being powerful in the fruit of the Spirit, first, is the energy for then being powerful in the other things-praying, speaking, sharing, etc.
 
Mar 28, 2016
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#28
Can any of us prove or disprove personal/individual claims of Holy Spirit baptisms? Should such claims hold any weight in this forum?

Please note: I am speaking of personal or individual claims, not the biblical existence of Holy Spirit baptism.
The baptism of the Holy Spirit is a work that continues to work in us. As always he must do the first works (unseen) . There is no outward sign . But one inward, one that reflects a new eternal spirit a new heart that will be raised on the last day as a contrite heart.

The sign not seen is we have a new desire to do His will as it is written, and stay there as long as we can.


Unless a person can see into the heart of another we could never know if Christ beagan the good work and again if he has begun it he will finish the unseen work
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
#29
If these are the signs, why isn't it being done?
He said why:
The problem is unbelief and denial of the truth of scripture.
Which I agree with.

When you're told over and over and over that the gifts have ceased, and that purposely obeying God is 'the law', yada yada yada......you get a puny, helpless, powerless bunch of people living in denial of the power of God. Their lives being every bit the evidence of that denial. They don't look like God, they don't act like God. And they seem quite comfortable with that.
 
Mar 28, 2016
15,954
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#30
When a person is filled with the Holy Spirit, the evidence is that they soon express His fruits of love, joy, peace, endurance, etc. in their lives. The nature of Christ is seen in their actions and speech, even though they still are with faults and habits that will be slowly dealt with as time goes by.

I know that I felt love in a new way - predominant was the experience of His love for me. It overwhelmed me! I also loved others in a gentler, more sacrificial way. People around me saw this. Didn't Jesus even say "By their fruits you will know them?"
Amen...

Because of the counterfeiter the father of lies we must be careful on how we look at the fruits. God who has no needs satisfies all. He is not served by human hands as if he needed anything. He can use a unbeliever to bring the gospel just as easy as one who does have the Spirit of Christ. If he has begun the good work in us he will finish it as one who endures to the end

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:21

He ever said than man did not perfom the wonderful works.
 

Stunnedbygrace

Senior Member
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
822
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#31
If these are the signs of the believers and the church is the body of believers should not these events be active? Either there are no true churches today or the signs of Mark 16 are not for today.
Yes. OR, we could have very little strength remaining...
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
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#32
Do not believe such claims.

These are the fruits of the Holy spirit:love, joy, peace,patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,gentleness and self-control. There's not one person who can claim that from this moment i have been [FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]baptized[/FONT][FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] and now i'm going to display these fruits- it is a process and the believer most of the time doesn't even know. The spirit takes time to change the person's habit, it is never a one minute shift from bad to good or some kind of intense feeling or an event.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arimo, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Speaking worthless unintelligible words and acting strange all of a sudden is a sure sign that a person has been corrupted by a demonic spirit. God is never a God of confusion- the words that are associated with Him must be meaningful and discern-able. Speaking in tongues is speaking real language for the purpose that God Himself has appointed. It mostly was for the disciples when they were tasked to preach the gospel of the kingdom to all nations. A person would speak and the hearers would hear him in their own local dilect. In a congregation, no one was allowed to speak in tongues unless their was interpretation- it is surely not the meaningless blubber we hear today. [/FONT]
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,261
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#33
The fruits of the spirit are not the same as the gifts of the spirit. Mark Chapter 3, Jesus was accused of having an evil spirit. What was his response?
 

Lucy-Pevensie

Senior Member
Dec 20, 2017
9,261
5,618
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#34
Even if someone was "there", what would that person experience to know it was a legit Holy Spirit baptism?
You are just a very religious person with an agenda.
 

Noose

Senior Member
Apr 18, 2016
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#35
The fruits of the spirit are not the same as the gifts of the spirit. Mark Chapter 3, Jesus was accused of having an evil spirit. What was his response?
Gifts of the Holy spirit are abilities that people have that are God given for the glory of the kingdom of God; for example preaching/teaching/prophesying - even these, no one can just wake up one day and say i feel like i'm a prophet. These are authorities and God appoints people to do them, not some funny feelings.
Most probably, people that are appointed usually don't want the appointment at first but even if they accept, they would only say "..i have been appointed to do ...", any one that claims they have been baptized by the spirit because of how they felt is a liar.

The spirit is a mind not a feeling, change of mind is not at one go.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#36
You are just a very religious person with an agenda.
I asked a legitimate question and got a legitimate answer. So what is your problem?

Of course you are a very irreligious person with no agenda. Its been a while but aren't you the abortion rights supporter? How's that agenda going?
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
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#37
If these are the signs of the believers and the church is the body of believers should not these events be active? Either there are no true churches today or the signs of Mark 16 are not for today.
The signs of Mark 16 were really "the signs of an apostle" and meant for the Apostolic Age. That means that signs, and wonders, and miracles accompanying the Gospel would not continue indefinitely, and church history confirms this. But today the Gospel is still the power of God unto salvation (Rom 1:16).
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,764
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#38
Can any of us prove or disprove personal/individual claims of Holy Spirit baptisms? Should such claims hold any weight in this forum?

Please note: I am speaking of personal or individual claims, not the biblical existence of Holy Spirit baptism.
Christians are not in the business of proving or disproving what God does in the lives of other believers. Each time a sinner is saved, he or she is baptized with the Holy Spirit, and given the gift of the Holy Spirit in order to indwell the child of God.

4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared,

5
Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

6
Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;

7
That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

8
This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men. (Titus 3:4-8).

"He shed on us abundantly" means that God poured out His Holy Spirit on each one who was justified by grace through faith. Which means they were "immersed in" or "baptized with" the Holy Ghost. Speaking in tongues is not necessary for this, since the Bible makes it clear that not all will speak in tongues (supernatural gift of unknown languages).

 
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joefizz

Guest
#39
No you are publicly declaring your unbelief and your ignorance.
It does sound more like an "atheist" question you know the usual... "can you prove this without biblical support"?.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
24,555
13,320
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#40
Can any of us prove or disprove personal/individual claims of Holy Spirit baptisms? Should such claims hold any weight in this forum?

Please note: I am speaking of personal or individual claims, not the biblical existence of Holy Spirit baptism.
I would offer a few thoughts on this...

"Proof" that is absolutely undeniable is only possible in the realm of mathematics. In every other realm, there is some degree of subjectivity. Even what the legal system calls "proof" is not proof in the strictest logical sense, but "compelling evidence".

Compelling evidence is inherently subjective, and when it comes to matters of faith, there is also an element of choice to believe... or not. Can I "prove" that Jesus rose from the dead so that no-one can gainsay it? No; only Jesus Himself can do that. All I could do is provide the evidence available that I found (and continue to find) compelling. Others may not find it compelling.

So it is with the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Certainly there are different interpretations of Scripture on this matter, as a read through the previous posts will show. I believe that Scripture teaches that the Holy Spirit fills the believer at the moment of salvation, and that He is the seal, the promise of redemption. I further believe that from that point forward, He is at work in the believer conforming him or her to Christ. A big part of this is manifesting the fruit of the Spirit (love, joy, peace etc.). I believe that these things are normative; they are to be expected (eventually) of every believer in Christ.

The "gifts of the Spirit" are, I believe, in a different category, and are not all given to (manifested through) every believer. Rather, they are given to the Church through particular people, and that as an aggregate, the Church will manifest all the gifts as needed. Traditionally, these are the "manifestations" associated with the so-called "baptism of the Spirit". This is unfortunate, because it sets up an artificial distinction that is unsupported by Scripture. I will state that I don't believe that manifestation of these gifts (any of them, in particular) is normative for all believers, but that their manifestation in the Church is normative.

Back to proof... There is debate over how and when the infilling/empowering of the Holy Spirit happened in the lives of biblical believers. That it happened is not debatable, for Scripture plainly teaches that it did. There is nothing in Scripture suggesting that it would stop. In Scripture, there is a close association between "baptism" and a certain manifestation, but the manifestation is not presented as "proof". It does seem to have been evident to those around though.

My conclusion is that a personal experience of Holy Spirit baptism is not "provable" in the sense of objective compelling evidence. Rather, it is a subjective experience of empowerment which should be accompanied by the testimony of faith (critical) and the increasing presence of fruit of the Spirit (eventual). Gifts may accompany the experience, or they may come later, or not at all (though we should eagerly desire them). Also, our faith must not rest on having had this experience (or be questioned for its absence), but on the revealed truth of Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

Regarding claims to the experience, I don't see any reason why we should automatically accept or reject them, any more than we do for other claims. As to this forum, it's for discussion, and as such I think such claims are fair game, and that those who are skeptical of them do well to remember that their own disbelief doesn't (and shouldn't) invalidate such claims.