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Thread: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ

  1. #1
    Member fromtheriver's Avatar
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    Exclamation Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Christ

    I have been confused about the Holy Spirit quite awhile. A few months ago I believed that the Holy Spirit comes and goes, but then a few people told me you receive the Holy Spirit when you become a Christian (accept Christ into your life.) I go to a Pentecostal church and I don't really have a choice (I'm 17) otherwise my mother doesn't really give me the choice of going to another church because she doesn't trust that i'll be out there searching for God. I still try to go along with her church but the whole speaking in tongues and Holy Spirit confuses me. I hear about people receiving the Holy Spirit and I feel so confused because in my mind I say "but I thought you receive the Holy Spirit when you become a Christian." I was already explained about tongues, but I don't know how the Holy Spirit has anything to do with speaking tongues at all or if they have any connection! The church confuses me, and it has many surprises that scare me. I wanted to know because the church sometimes makes me feel confused because the pastor doesn't speak much about the bible but more emphasis on the Holy Spirit and what God has told her for the rest of the people in Church.


    So, what is the Holy Spirit exactly? what is it to receive the presence of the Holy Spirit? What does the Holy Spirit do?

  2. #2
    charisenexcelcis
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by fromtheriver View Post
    I have been confused about the Holy Spirit quite awhile. A few months ago I believed that the Holy Spirit comes and goes, but then a few people told me you receive the Holy Spirit when you become a Christian (accept Christ into your life.) I go to a Pentecostal church and I don't really have a choice (I'm 17) otherwise my mother doesn't really give me the choice of going to another church because she doesn't trust that i'll be out there searching for God. I still try to go along with her church but the whole speaking in tongues and Holy Spirit confuses me. I hear about people receiving the Holy Spirit and I feel so confused because in my mind I say "but I thought you receive the Holy Spirit when you become a Christian." I was already explained about tongues, but I don't know how the Holy Spirit has anything to do with speaking tongues at all or if they have any connection! The church confuses me, and it has many surprises that scare me. I wanted to know because the church sometimes makes me feel confused because the pastor doesn't speak much about the bible but more emphasis on the Holy Spirit and what God has told her for the rest of the people in Church.


    So, what is the Holy Spirit exactly? what is it to receive the presence of the Holy Spirit? What does the Holy Spirit do?
    When you put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ, you recieve the Holy Spirit. The Pentecostal experience is a separate event. The Holy Spirit is God the Spirit, a person of the Trinity. He is the seal of your salvation. His presence confirms the promises that were secured in the cross. He guides, transforms and enables you in your walk and your ministry. There are times when you will feel His presence, but even when you don't, He is with you.

  3. #3
    ed
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by fromtheriver View Post
    I have been confused about the Holy Spirit quite awhile. A few months ago I believed that the Holy Spirit comes and goes, but then a few people told me you receive the Holy Spirit when you become a Christian (accept Christ into your life.) I go to a Pentecostal church and I don't really have a choice (I'm 17) otherwise my mother doesn't really give me the choice of going to another church because she doesn't trust that i'll be out there searching for God. I still try to go along with her church but the whole speaking in tongues and Holy Spirit confuses me. I hear about people receiving the Holy Spirit and I feel so confused because in my mind I say "but I thought you receive the Holy Spirit when you become a Christian." I was already explained about tongues, but I don't know how the Holy Spirit has anything to do with speaking tongues at all or if they have any connection! The church confuses me, and it has many surprises that scare me. I wanted to know because the church sometimes makes me feel confused because the pastor doesn't speak much about the bible but more emphasis on the Holy Spirit and what God has told her for the rest of the people in Church.


    So, what is the Holy Spirit exactly? what is it to receive the presence of the Holy Spirit? What does the Holy Spirit do?
    Hi fromtheriver,
    This is a confusing issue. Please read 1Corinthians12:27 to14:25.
    I will try and pass on my understanding. Please confirm by reading scripture in the indicated area. Speaking in tongues is a gift of the Holy Spirit. As not all will be apostles or teachers or healers so not all will speak in tongues. Tongues like all the gifts is just that, a gift, it is not a sign or an indication of the Holy Spirit sealing you for salvation. Scripture very clearly says that not all will have all gifts. Not all will speak in tongues. Scripture also says that speaking in tongues is a sign to disbelievers. If you speak to people who speak in tongues they will tell you that they did not really believe until they spoke in tongues. The person who speaks in tongues is the person who needed this gift to believe. You my good friend did not need this spiritual gift to believe. Good for you. Do not feel unworthy because you do not speak in tongues, but give thanks that you were prepared to believe without this gift. As you grow with maturity in Jesus Christ your gift may become apparent. If your gift is wisdom or some gift which is not physically manifested ( seen or heard with the ear or eye etc) then you may have it for some time without realizing it. The gift of tongues is the least gift. Those who speak in tongues and do not have another gift may find that tongues is the only gift they will have. You on the other hand will have at least a greater gift.
    Tongues also has more than one meaning. It mostly refers to those people who are speaking a spiritual language. Most of these people have no idea what they are saying. Often no one knows what they are saying. Speaking in tongues in this manner is common in non Christian countries, and is a sign to the unbelieving person that the Holy Spirit has been bestowed. Speaking in tongues can also mean that when you speak, in your native language, the Holy Spirit changes your language into the language of the listener or in the case of the listeners (so that the other language or languages think you are speaking to them in their native tongue. Also you may not be aware that the Holy Spirit has done this. There are other possibilities as well.
    Be very pleased and give thanks. Do not feel inferior or left out because you have not been given the gift of speaking in tongues.
    Additionally I believe this but I am a little unsure of it. The giving of gifts comes from being baptised by the Holy Spirit. This is a further step. Sometimes it happens at the water baptism, sometimes at the laying on of hands by the preacher but the giving of gifts is a once only affair and the gift or gifts are not withdrawn. Those who speak in tongues have been baptised in the Holy Spirit and the gifts they now have will not be increased. You however have not yet been baptised by the Holy Spirit and therefore it is probable that Jesus has greater work for you after He has taught you for some time and tested you time and again.
    You are in a wonderful position to be greatly used by our Lord and Saviour.
    Don't feel inferior to the others. They should not feel superior to you either because what they received is a gift. They did not earn this, they are not greater than you are.
    I hope you commit yourself to learning the will of our God and Father and give thanks always.
    love
    edwin.

  4. #4
    paul1149
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    fromtheriver, when you accept Christ as Lord and Savior, the Holy Spirit is given to indwell you. Your spirit is now in covenant, one-flesh, relationship with God, as in marriage. This is apart from any gifting or anointing or calling that God may do in/with you.

    The Holy Spirit does give gifts, called manifestation gifts because their exercise actually manifests the Spirit's presence. He also anoints for service, according to your calling in God or the need of the moment. This is the power aspect of the Holy Spirit. It is separate from the indwelling aspect. Even if you never function in gifting or anointing or calling (let's say you died immediately after receiving Christ), as a Christian you still would have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, given as assurance that you are a son of Most High God.

    One of the problems we have is when we are struggling with something, and don't have the manifest power of God to break free, we confuse that with not having the indwelling. God has promised to ALWAYS be with the one who has placed faith in Christ for salvation. His desire, and ours, is that from there we overcome everything the world, flesh and devil throw against us, but that is another issue from the indwelling due to salvation.

    BTW, there are two types of tongues - us speaking to God in our spirit and God speaking through us. The first is a prayer language, usually private, and the second is a manifestation gift, usually public. Remember, 1Cor (11?) tells us God is not the author of confusion. If you are confused about anything, do not accept the pressure of man. Bring it to God and let His peace return to you, and ask in faith that He sort it out for you. In His time, He will. Meanwhile you can rest spiritually and keep learning.

    The Christian walk is empowered by both the Word and the Spirit. One works through the other. Regardless of what position or human credentials a person has, everything should be taken back to the Word and the Spirit for confirmation. 1Jn2.27 tells us that the anointing that we have in us teaches us all things.

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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Hi don't worry about not understanding everything. The Holy Spirit is God. He lives in your heart to help and guide you. He loves you and he sees that you are confused.

    Don't worry about the tongues. They do look and sound strange so its perfectly normal for you to be kinda freaked out by it all. Thats OK.

    Your pastor talking about the Holy Spirit is a good thing. The Holy Spirit is what was put on earth for us when Jesus went to heaven.

    Also rememeber that the Lord isn't wanting you confused. Its the devil wanting to steal God away from you. Read about the HOly Spirit. Tell your pastor how your feeling.

    God bless you!

    God the Holy Spirit knows how you feel. He doesn't want you to be afraid of it all Ok.

    The Holy Spirit is with you all the time. But you don't always feel some wonderful feeling that he is with you. Lots of time in your life is you reminding yourself in the word and you reminding yourself always that the Holy Spirit is with you.

    Like knowing in your heart that no matter what kind of stresses that you may go thr in life you say and know that God(the Holy Spirit is with you and will never leave you alone.)


  6. #6
    greatkraw
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by fromtheriver View Post
    I have been confused about the Holy Spirit quite awhile. A few months ago I believed that the Holy Spirit comes and goes, but then a few people told me you receive the Holy Spirit when you become a Christian (accept Christ into your life.) I go to a Pentecostal church and I don't really have a choice (I'm 17) otherwise my mother doesn't really give me the choice of going to another church because she doesn't trust that i'll be out there searching for God. I still try to go along with her church but the whole speaking in tongues and Holy Spirit confuses me. I hear about people receiving the Holy Spirit and I feel so confused because in my mind I say "but I thought you receive the Holy Spirit when you become a Christian." I was already explained about tongues, but I don't know how the Holy Spirit has anything to do with speaking tongues at all or if they have any connection! The church confuses me, and it has many surprises that scare me. I wanted to know because the church sometimes makes me feel confused because the pastor doesn't speak much about the bible but more emphasis on the Holy Spirit and what God has told her for the rest of the people in Church.


    So, what is the Holy Spirit exactly? what is it to receive the presence of the Holy Spirit? What does the Holy Spirit do?
    your instincts are good

    The Bible says God is NOT the author of confusion

    Jesus said the purpose of the Holy Spirit is to point the focus of attention to Jesus

    Good Doctrinal teaching is far more important than having a wild emotional exzperience which may not even be from God

    Go find a church where you are comfortable

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    Member fromtheriver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by charisenexcelcis View Post
    When you put your faith and trust in Jesus Christ, you recieve the Holy Spirit. The Pentecostal experience is a separate event. The Holy Spirit is God the Spirit, a person of the Trinity. He is the seal of your salvation. His presence confirms the promises that were secured in the cross. He guides, transforms and enables you in your walk and your ministry. There are times when you will feel His presence, but even when you don't, He is with you.
    Yeah someone early told me it is just a presence. Where in the bible does it speak about his presence? My mother told me its the presence of the Holy Spirit but I feel so say "but I thought it doesn't leave" and makes me go crazy. Also, if someone is baptized by the Holy Spirit doesn't it mean that whoever gets it is going to speak in tongues? Sorry I'm a bit confused still, it makes me anxious not knowing and even cynical about what's in my mother's church.

  8. #8
    studentofgod
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    [quote=fromtheriver;334496]I have been confused about the Holy Spirit quite awhile. A few months ago I believed that the Holy Spirit comes and goes, but then a few people told me you receive the Holy Spirit when you become a Christian (accept Christ into your life.) I go to a Pentecostal church and I don't really have a choice (I'm 17) otherwise my mother doesn't really give me the choice of going to another church because she doesn't trust that i'll be out there searching for God. I still try to go along with her church but the whole speaking in tongues and Holy Spirit confuses me. I hear about people receiving the Holy Spirit and I feel so confused because in my mind I say "but I thought you receive the Holy Spirit when you become a Christian." I was already explained about tongues, but I don't know how the Holy Spirit has anything to do with speaking tongues at all or if they have any connection! The church confuses me, and it has many surprises that scare me. I wanted to know because the church sometimes makes me feel confused because the pastor doesn't speak much about the bible but more emphasis on the Holy Spirit and what God has told her for the rest of the people in Church.


    So, what is the Holy Spirit exactly? what is it to receive the presence of the Holy Spirit? What does the Holy Spirit do?[/quote


    ok first of all look at different examples of when people of when people recieved the Holy Ghost in the book of acts. people will tell you that you receive the holy ghost when you believe or accept Christ but it doesnt matter what people say it matters what the bible says in act ch 19
    Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,

    Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

    Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.

    Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

    Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

    As you can see these people believed and they didn't have the Holy Ghost. Then they accepted Christ when they were baptized. However, they still did not have the Holy Ghost. They received it when Paul laid his hands on them. It is a totally separate, distinct experience from believing, baptism, and accepting Christ.

    This is the story of how I received the Holy Ghost:
    I received the Holy Ghost on May 18 2008 around 10 at night. I was at the 2008 Atlantic district youth convention.
    Let me describe what this convention was like. It was 3 days long 2 services Friday 2 Saturday and three Sunday. There is somewhere around 3000 youth and everyone is worshiping their hearts out jumping, shouting, and really seeking Jesus.
    It was the third service on Sunday, the last one of the convention. They started with music as normal, but within the first song people just started worshiping, getting out of their seats, praying on their knees. At that time I had never been to a service so intense so I was nervous, but I felt convicted to go seek God. Many of the pastors and elders were walking around in the crowd of people laying their hands on the youth and praying them into the Holy Ghost (Just like in the book of Acts). My pastor saw that I was seeking God and he came to pray with me, there were others also but I was so focused on God that I don’t know who they were. I had my hands lifted up and repented, asking God to forgive me for my sins. I was picturing bowing before Jesus, I was shouting out to him telling Him that I love Him and I need Him. I was praying for about 15 min when I felt this awesome presence of God overwhelming me and I began to lose control of my tongue, the words I wanted to say were not coming out but another language. It felt so good, I felt God’s love all around me.



    Don't get discouraged, and keep seeking after God!

















  9. #9
    paulnsilas
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by greatkraw View Post
    your instincts are good

    The Bible says God is NOT the author of confusion

    Jesus said the purpose of the Holy Spirit is to point the focus of attention to Jesus

    Good Doctrinal teaching is far more important than having a wild emotional exzperience which may not even be from God

    Go find a church where you are comfortable

    I will second this.
    Your impressions are valid.

  10. #10
    charisenexcelcis
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by fromtheriver View Post
    Yeah someone early told me it is just a presence. Where in the bible does it speak about his presence? My mother told me its the presence of the Holy Spirit but I feel so say "but I thought it doesn't leave" and makes me go crazy. Also, if someone is baptized by the Holy Spirit doesn't it mean that whoever gets it is going to speak in tongues? Sorry I'm a bit confused still, it makes me anxious not knowing and even cynical about what's in my mother's church.
    John 14:17, Romans 8:9, I Corinth. 6:19, II Timothy 1:14, and I John 3:24. These all speak of the presence of the Holy Spirit in the believer. Again, how you feel doesn't effect the promise. The Pentesostals have three groupings. The largest branch believes that speaking in other languages is the initial physical evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit. If you are going to one of that branch, then doctrinally they would hold that the purpose of the Pentecostal experience is to empower you to be a witness. this would be seen as one of the many manifestations of glossalia. Outside that manifestation, they would encourage the giftings of glossalia, but would not believe them to be universal.
    The three groupings are the baptismal Pentecostals, the holiness Pentecostals and the oneness Pentecostals. In addition there are many independents who hold a wide variety of views on pnuematology. There are also charismatics who fit the gifts of the Spirit into their denominational distinctives.

  11. #11
    greatkraw
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    anyone who quotes Acts to you is not citing normal christian experience

    Acts was a time of transition in the church and was over long ago

  12. #12
    charisenexcelcis
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by greatkraw View Post
    anyone who quotes Acts to you is not citing normal christian experience

    Acts was a time of transition in the church and was over long ago
    I disagree. For instance, Peter before the Sanhedrin says, "And there is salvation in no one else [other than Jesus]; for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men, by which we must be saved."

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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by greatkraw View Post
    your instincts are good

    The Bible says God is NOT the author of confusion

    Jesus said the purpose of the Holy Spirit is to point the focus of attention to Jesus

    Good Doctrinal teaching is far more important than having a wild emotional exzperience which may not even be from God

    Go find a church where you are comfortable
    Doctrinal correctness is more important than having Christ in your life? Am I hearing you right?

    For this is what the Holy Spirit is, Christ in us. He said that He would not leave us alone, that He would send another to us, a comforter.

    We are saved by grace, and grace is being near to God, and God, loving us so much that He sent His Son, decided to answer His Son's prayer, and sent to us His Spirit, to live in us, to actually give us new birth from and of Him, newness of life that is life from above, from God.

    If one has received the Spirit into themselves, then they are the child of God. If not, then they are not. It is called the Spirit of adoption, after all. And as even Paul wrote, everyone who is lead by the Spirit is a born child of God.

  14. #14
    studentofgod
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by greatkraw View Post
    anyone who quotes Acts to you is not citing normal christian experience

    Acts was a time of transition in the church and was over long ago

    I've experienced it it still applies today. Acts was written so we would know what our churches should be like. I still see the book of acts experience in new believers. its real it still happens .If you want to know more i can teach you more about this experience. This is the example the bible gives us of what a normal Christian experience should be like

  15. #15
    HumbleSaint
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    My opinion my not matter much, but I'm going to give it anyway. I believe the Pentacostles are pretty much a cult. Anything that adds works to salvation is false.

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. Titus 3:5

    You hear that? Not by are works of righteousness, because in Isaiah it says that our righteousness is as filthy rags. Its His imputed(credited) righteousness that He saves us and this comes by faith alone By believeing on Jesus Christ to give us a new life. Is water baptism, speaking with tongues a work of righteousness which we have done?; Yes it is.

    I think a lot of this Pentacostle speaking in tongues is just a bunch of giberish. The KJV Bible never uses the phrase speaking in tongues, but speaking with tongues. Tongues means languages and I believe Paul had the gift of learning many different languages, because he traveled around a lot and did a lot of mission work. And I believe foreign people who spoke with another tongue would come to their church and speak and Paul said in this case to have an interpreter 1 Corinthians 14

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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    You don't always speak in tongues right away. Some do some don't. Be very careful of the ones who are trying to tell you there are no tongues. They try and cut the books of Acts right out of the bible. The book of Acts makes it very clear that yes speaking in tongues looks wierd. It looked so wierd that way back then they started saying they looked drunk.

    The book is your guide so believe what is in the book and not people who push the Holy Spirit out and call his book a lie.

  17. #17
    charisenexcelcis
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by HumbleSaint View Post
    My opinion my not matter much, but I'm going to give it anyway. I believe the Pentacostles are pretty much a cult. Anything that adds works to salvation is false.

    Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost. Titus 3:5
    And if the Pentecostal does not "add works" to salvation?

    You hear that? Not by are works of righteousness, because in Isaiah it says that our righteousness is as filthy rags. Its His imputed(credited) righteousness that He saves us and this comes by faith alone By believeing on Jesus Christ to give us a new life. Is water baptism, speaking with tongues a work of righteousness which we have done?; Yes it is.
    If one is saved by faith, does it then undermine that faith for them to actually do anything.

    I think a lot of this Pentacostle speaking in tongues is just a bunch of giberish. The KJV Bible never uses the phrase speaking in tongues, but speaking with tongues. Tongues means languages and I believe Paul had the gift of learning many different languages, because he traveled around a lot and did a lot of mission work. And I believe foreign people who spoke with another tongue would come to their church and speak and Paul said in this case to have an interpreter 1 Corinthians 14
    Language changes. Do you pray and preach in KJV language? If not then you have participated in that change in expressing your faith.
    Also, not only does your interpretation start with an a priori, but it ignores the practice of the church in Acts.

  18. #18
    greatkraw
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by VW View Post
    Doctrinal correctness is more important than having Christ in your life? Am I hearing you right?

    For this is what the Holy Spirit is, Christ in us. He said that He would not leave us alone, that He would send another to us, a comforter.

    We are saved by grace, and grace is being near to God, and God, loving us so much that He sent His Son, decided to answer His Son's prayer, and sent to us His Spirit, to live in us, to actually give us new birth from and of Him, newness of life that is life from above, from God.

    If one has received the Spirit into themselves, then they are the child of God. If not, then they are not. It is called the Spirit of adoption, after all. And as even Paul wrote, everyone who is lead by the Spirit is a born child of God.
    The correct doctrine is this..........

    being saved you aleady have the Holy Spirit and should not look for any particular manifestation

    this is the definition of FAITH


    many are being deceived by wanting something MORE

    and so giving ground to the enemy

  19. #19
    greatkraw
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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by studentofgod View Post
    I've experienced it it still applies today. Acts was written so we would know what our churches should be like. I still see the book of acts experience in new believers. its real it still happens .If you want to know more i can teach you more about this experience. This is the example the bible gives us of what a normal Christian experience should be like
    this is really the point

    God no longer works as he did in Acts - it was a time of transition

    Paul said tongues would pass away - and they did

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    Default Re: Question about the Holy Spirit: When we receive the Holy Spirit when we accept Ch

    Quote Originally Posted by greatkraw View Post
    this is really the point

    God no longer works as he did in Acts - it was a time of transition

    Paul said tongues would pass away - and they did
    Paul wrote that knowledge would pass away also, in the same passage that he wrote that tongues would pass away. Regardless, the point of his words was that these things would pass away when the perfect came. And, that love would not pass away. And love is what, comes from where? Love is the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

    That the gifts have been abused is a given. So has every other doctrine of Christianity. Saved by works, saved by grace, saved by faith, saved by confession, saved by speaking in tongues, saved by whatever. The simple truth is that unless you are born of the Spirit, you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven.

    The simple truth of the Holy Spirit is that He comes to us as God. He is to us the love of God, the life of God, the power of God, all because Jesus asked God to send Him, and ascended into heaven so He could come.

    But what is even more important is that we need Him, the Holy Spirit, very badly. Yes, He manifested Himself very strongly in the first century of the church, and somehow He has fallen out of favor, not many believe anymore. But He never went away, we have turned our backs on Him

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