Do we decide to be saved?

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EarnestQ

Senior Member
Apr 28, 2016
2,588
311
83
#1
I have been recently talking with a friend about whether or not one decides to be saved. His position is that we are elected to salvation and that, as such, we believe when we hear the gospel. He claims that it must be that way otherwise it becomes something we do in order to be saved.

I am inclined toward the election possibility but I am not dogmatic about it. It might be that even if we are elected it may be up to us as to when we believe.

I am also aware that I might be dead wrong about election and that it is up to everyone who hears the gospel to choose to receive eternal life or not.

I invite your (respectful) thoughts on the matter.

Thank you.
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
9,635
787
113
#2
I don't get the mass paranoia that surrounds even the smallest possibility that we may have a say in our salvation.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,001
13,008
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#3
Although we are commanded to believe and will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving belief/faith in Christ (Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8) is not exclusively a matter of human decision.

Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us/unless it has been granted to him by My Father (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to believe/place faith in Christ for salvation all by ourselves.

The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him (2 Peter 3:9; Acts 20:21), yet the impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
#4
Although we are commanded to believe and will be held accountable for unbelief (John 3:18), saving belief/faith in Christ (Acts 16:31; Ephesians 2:8) is not exclusively a matter of human decision.

Unless the Father draws us (John 6:44) and enables us/unless it has been granted to him by My Father (John 6:65) we would NEVER come to believe/place faith in Christ for salvation all by ourselves.

The approach of the soul to Christ is initiated by the Father, but He doesn't force us to choose Christ, we must choose Him (2 Peter 3:9; Acts 20:21), yet the impulse to faith in Christ comes from God.
I wrestled with that Scripture about needing to be drawn to Christ. And then I saw this one, right after John 6:44.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

So I personally believe all people are drawn to Him now, but grace is not irresistible.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#5
I have been recently talking with a friend about whether or not one decides to be saved. His position is that we are elected to salvation and that, as such, we believe when we hear the gospel. He claims that it must be that way otherwise it becomes something we do in order to be saved.

I am inclined toward the election possibility but I am not dogmatic about it. It might be that even if we are elected it may be up to us as to when we believe.

I am also aware that I might be dead wrong about election and that it is up to everyone who hears the gospel to choose to receive eternal life or not.

I invite your (respectful) thoughts on the matter.

Thank you.
Yes! By all means! We decided whether or not we wanted to be saved.

And we make the same decision each and every time.

John 3:[FONT=&quot]19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. [/FONT]

And the Father "carried out" (although I do like KJV's "wrought" better here) the rest of that decision.

John 3:21 [FONT=&quot]But whoever [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]does what is true [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”[/FONT]
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#6
I wrestled with that Scripture about needing to be drawn to Christ. And then I saw this one, right after John 6:44.

John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.”

So I personally believe all people are drawn to Him now, but grace is not irresistible.
I see "drawn" as like water to a sponge. Does the water have a say if it is drawn? And, does the sponge keep all the water it collects?

I am an irresistible gracer, however, that grace is directional. It's not for everyone, or everyone would be saved. It's not the "it rains on the just and unjust" grace. It's saving grace. And both graces come from God.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
#7
I see "drawn" as like water to a sponge. Does the water have a say if it is drawn? And, does the sponge keep all the water it collects?

I am an irresistible gracer, however, that grace is directional. It's not for everyone, or everyone would be saved. It's not the "it rains on the just and unjust" grace. It's saving grace. And both graces come from God.
I hear you. I personally see it as Christ saying He is now drawing all people to Himself. And in another Scripture Paul says He desires none to perish. I know some people explain this through passive and permissible will of God, but I don't agree with it myself.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
#8
I have been recently talking with a friend about whether or not one decides to be saved. His position is that we are elected to salvation and that, as such, we believe when we hear the gospel. He claims that it must be that way otherwise it becomes something we do in order to be saved.

I am inclined toward the election possibility but I am not dogmatic about it. It might be that even if we are elected it may be up to us as to when we believe.

I am also aware that I might be dead wrong about election and that it is up to everyone who hears the gospel to choose to receive eternal life or not.

I invite your (respectful) thoughts on the matter.

Thank you.
Well it is a tricky question to discern an answer because well on one hand one has the decision to accept everything concerning Jesus and Salvation through him,on the other hand Jesus says "many are called but few are chosen" not necessarily concerning any "one" topic bringing up the fact that many in the past were "chosen/elected" by God/Jesus to "serve" and in time perhaps come to "Salvation".
It can be quite a stretch discerning if one is elected to be saved or if the individual chooses to be saved because of course many would emphasise that they are "elected beforehand" so it's quite a complex,because as we know in the bible concerning Jesus "he who believes in him is under no condemnation but he who does not believe in him is condemned still" so no denying there is a "choice" involved on the part of the individual as well as God/Jesus so I'm more inclined to believing that the individual chooses to be saved because though God/Jesus can make a "selection" in who is to be saved it is only "fruitful" to both him and the individual entirely when the individual "chooses" to accept salvation.
 
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D

Depleted

Guest
#9
I hear you. I personally see it as Christ saying He is now drawing all people to Himself. And in another Scripture Paul says He desires none to perish. I know some people explain this through passive and permissible will of God, but I don't agree with it myself.
Too bad I haven't heard of the passive/permissible will of God. Never heard the theory, so don't know if I agree or not. lol
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
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#10
Too bad I haven't heard of the passive/permissible will of God. Never heard the theory, so don't know if I agree or not. lol
Basically the idea is, that even though God desires none to perish, He allows people to perish. Which is fine, but if you take away man's free will then it doesn't work for me. Because the only reason I believe God allows people to perish and stumble is because He values people freely choosing Him.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#12
Well it is a tricky question to discern an answer because well on one hand one has the decision to accept everything concerning Jesus and Salvation through him,on the other hand Jesus says "many are called but few are chosen" not necessarily concerning any "one" topic bringing up the fact that many in the past were "chosen/elected" by God/Jesus to "serve" and in time perhaps come to "Salvation".
It can be quite a stretch discerning if one is elected to be saved or if the individual chooses to be saved because of course many would emphasise that they are "elected beforehand" so it's quite a complex,because as we know in the bible concerning Jesus "he who believes in him is under no condemnation but he who does not believe in him is condemned still" so no denying there is a "choice" involved on the part of the individual as well as God/Jesus so I'm more inclined to believing that the individual chooses to be saved because though God/Jesus can make a "selection" in who is to be saved it is only "fruitful" to both him and the individual entirely when the individual "chooses" to accept salvation.
Here's a quicky link to verses about election -- https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Election,-To-Salvation

God is sovereign, not co-reigner with us.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#13
Basically the idea is, that even though God desires none to perish, He allows people to perish. Which is fine, but if you take away man's free will then it doesn't work for me. Because the only reason I believe God allows people to perish and stumble is because He values people freely choosing Him.
Oh, that explains why I don't know that one. I don't see God as passive at all.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#14
The book says that all who learn from the father come to Christ. That's what happened to me. He ordered my steps because I didn't have a clue what I was looking for, but I did the searching and choosing once he opened my eyes.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#16
Annnd, another one I've never heard. Whose doctrine is that? :eek:

(Man, there are a lot of beliefs, aren't there?)
I'm kind of fuzzy on the details, but it certainly began somewhat with Augustine, and then Calvin expanded the idea from studying his writings.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#17
Basically the idea is, that even though God desires none to perish, He allows people to perish. Which is fine, but if you take away man's free will then it doesn't work for me. Because the only reason I believe God allows people to perish and stumble is because He values people freely choosing Him.
Love doesn't mean much otherwise.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
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#18
I believe the doctrine of inability is the idea that man can in no way choose God. Because they are dead without Him. So they are incapable in their own will.
 
Oct 11, 2017
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#20
Salvation was made available to Gentiles because of the unbelief of God's people. The gospel is therefore preached to the Gentiles. And the Gentiles can choose whether they want the life that God offers or die the death that Adam has brought to ALL mankind. From dust you are and to dust you shall return.