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Thread: What is the basis of our faith?

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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    Are you laying a trap for me? Speak your mind, I'm listening.
    Do you want to see it in your life, like you haven't ever seen before?

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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by LPT View Post
    Do you want to see it in your life, like you haven't ever seen before?
    Whats the secret?
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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    Whats the secret?
    To say yes or no, what would be your answer?

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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by LPT View Post
    To say yes or no, what would be your answer?
    Hah, I think I see where you're going with this. Our willingness to walk in obedience to His will, yes? My answer, as the Lord already knows, is yes in accordance with His will and purpose for my life. He, giving me the boldness and courage to go beyond my comfort zones.
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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    From the very beginning -that is, before I was even saved-I had no knowledge of God's will concerning me. This didn't prevent me from believing in Jesus and being saved. As concerns healing, the greatest healing I ever received was salvation, and the unimaginable peace that gave my heart. I will no longer debate with anyone about healing, for I already know what is the greatest healing of all. Any otjer is just icing on that cake. My hope is that all of us will study Paul's instruction on unity of the body-rather than seeking division by endless debates.
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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Didymous View Post
    From the very beginning -that is, before I was even saved-I had no knowledge of God's will concerning me. This didn't prevent me from believing in Jesus and being saved. As concerns healing, the greatest healing I ever received was salvation, and the unimaginable peace that gave my heart. I will no longer debate with anyone about healing, for I already know what is the greatest healing of all. Any otjer is just icing on that cake. My hope is that all of us will study Paul's instruction on unity of the body-rather than seeking division by endless debates.
    You believed though because you understood His will is for you to be saved which is why Christ died on the cross and resurrected on the third day. I second your words that we should be in unity.
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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    Hah, I think I see where you're going with this. Our willingness to walk in obedience to His will, yes? My answer, as the Lord already knows, is yes in accordance with His will and purpose for my life. He, giving me the boldness and courage to go beyond my comfort zones.
    Very well then, the day or hour is not known.

    God bless

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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by LPT View Post
    Very well then, the day or hour is not known.

    God bless
    God bless you as well, but I will tell you that the day and hour is known. Today is the day! He has a will for us daily, if we would only listen to His guidance. Follow His leading.
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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    You believed though because you understood His will is for you to be saved which is why Christ died on the cross and resurrected on the third day. I second your words that we should be in unity.
    No, I actually knew very little about God or Jesus-only that I believed when the man across from me told me that Jesus died for my sins, and if I believed in Him I would be saved. I was instructed to read the book of John first, and only after reading chapter three did I understand that God sent Jesus to die for me. I'm not trying to argue with you about this. I just remember how little I knew about what I'd received.
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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Didymous View Post
    No, I actually knew very little about God or Jesus-only that I believed when the man across from me told me that Jesus died for my sins, and if I believed in Him I would be saved. I was instructed to read the book of John first, and only after reading chapter three did I understand that God sent Jesus to die for me. I'm not trying to argue with you about this. I just remember how little I knew about what I'd received.
    How true that is for all of us! The word says to grow in the grace and knowledge of Jesus Christ. We continue to learn what exactly Jesus purchased for us, and even Himself (the joy that was set before Him). We are learning over time what Jesus accomplished through His finished work, and then walking out those revelations in practicality.
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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Hebrews 11:1 “Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.”Abraham had faith even though he didn’t see how God would bring victory. Things just got worse and worse for Joseph, he did not see how God would bring victory. Paul had faith despite God refusing to heal him. Our hope is in the Lord- that He will do what is best, and faith is our confidence in that hope.

    It is blind- who hopes for what they already have, see, and touch? Who has faith that God will create the world when He already has? Faith is an elimate of not knowing, yet having confidence anyways. Many people misuse faith by telling God what needs to be done, and how. Abraham had Ishmael thinking he would be the promised child. The apostles created rules and tossed dice in an attempt to replace Judas, Paul (God’s choice) wasn’t even in thier lineup. And what if Paul said “I have faith that God will heal me, when that was not God’s Will?

    Faith is not making the plan, deciding what needs to be done, faith is confident hope that God will do what needs to be done, even though we can’t see what that is.

    What is the basis of our faith? Confidence in God’s capabilities and leadership.
    Last edited by OneFaith; April 12th, 2018 at 12:35 AM.

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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    BenFTW. you don't have to look far for an answer, look around you- Are believers suffering and dying? if these believers that are at the point of death read your post, it would chastise them for not having enough faith but we both know this is not the case, our faith is intertwined with the will of God.
    Haven't you heard that God is pleased with the death of a saint?

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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    How can we have faith in God for something, if we do not know His will in the matter?
    All the more reason to understand that while God promises eternal life to the repentant sinner who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, He does NOT include in that offer perfect health and healing for every sickness, disease, or disability experienced by His children.

    YOU WILL NOT FIND A SINGLE GOSPEL PASSAGE IN SCRIPTURE WHICH GUARANTEES HEALING.

    At the same time:

    1. God was healing people long before the Atonement, since God Himself is the Divine Healer, and Christ Himself is the Great Physician. Indeed no creature can be healed unless God works out that healing physiologically, after doctors have finished their jobs.

    2. Freedom from sickness was a CONDITIONAL PROMISE to Israel. Check it out for yourself.

    3. For Christians, God has made provision through the prayer of faith offered up by the elders in the church for the one who is sick.

    4. God is healing hundreds of thousands daily throughout the world, whether they are Christians or not. So faith is not required in the majority of cases. Just as God makes the sun to shine on the just and the unjust, he heals in the same manner.

    5. Focusing the attention of people on physical healing is contrary to the will of God. His will is for the salvation and healing of the soul by bringing souls to Christ. And Christians are promised afflictions and persecutions in this life, not health, wealth, and *happiness*.

    Bottom line: We can pray for healing, ask others to pray for us, but must leave it up to God to either heal or not heal. What we should understand is that our mortal bodies are subject to sickness, death, and decay, but God has promised to raise up the saints in perfect, immortal, glorified bodes for eternity.
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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noose View Post
    BenFTW. you don't have to look far for an answer, look around you- Are believers suffering and dying? if these believers that are at the point of death read your post, it would chastise them for not having enough faith but we both know this is not the case, our faith is intertwined with the will of God.
    Haven't you heard that God is pleased with the death of a saint?
    In the context of healing this is somewhat of a red herring. What you are referring to is persecution, as opposed to bodily sickness, ailments, and the like. Even with persecution we see time and again God's deliverance and the setting free of God's people. His servants in the midst of fire and not being burned, for example.

    So even in the context of persecution I would encourage, biblically, a person to have faith in God to deliver them so that they may continue to preach the Gospel and save the lost.

    I understand there are martyrs for Jesus, persecuted to death (truly life). For these people they have a witness of undying loyalty to the Lord, and they will not deny Him, and neither shall He deny them.

    However, this is a red herring in this discussion on faith, because faith is even applicable in this situation. That being, deliverance and believing the Lord to save them from their enemies (which has happened). For those that face death (through persecution), due to the Gospel, the word tells them to rejoice in such suffering to be called worthy to suffer for His sake.

    Persecution is not the same as sickness, and healing has been made available to the sick through Christ by faith. Deliverance too is made available to those under persecution, so faith even here is of assistance (especially in regards to God's will in who that person is to reach with the Gospel).

    I don't see your charge of chastisement on my post as being appropriate, in the context of those suffering persecution. Even if it was chastisement, it would only be an encouragement to trust in the Lord. It wouldn't be beating them down but lifting them up.
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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    All the more reason to understand that while God promises eternal life to the repentant sinner who believes on the Lord Jesus Christ, He does NOT include in that offer perfect health and healing for every sickness, disease, or disability experienced by His children.

    YOU WILL NOT FIND A SINGLE GOSPEL PASSAGE IN SCRIPTURE WHICH GUARANTEES HEALING.

    At the same time:

    1. God was healing people long before the Atonement, since God Himself is the Divine Healer, and Christ Himself is the Great Physician. Indeed no creature can be healed unless God works out that healing physiologically, after doctors have finished their jobs.

    2. Freedom from sickness was a CONDITIONAL PROMISE to Israel. Check it out for yourself.

    3. For Christians, God has made provision through the prayer of faith offered up by the elders in the church for the one who is sick.

    4. God is healing hundreds of thousands daily throughout the world, whether they are Christians or not. So faith is not required in the majority of cases. Just as God makes the sun to shine on the just and the unjust, he heals in the same manner.

    5. Focusing the attention of people on physical healing is contrary to the will of God. His will is for the salvation and healing of the soul by bringing souls to Christ. And Christians are promised afflictions and persecutions in this life, not health, wealth, and *happiness*.

    Bottom line: We can pray for healing, ask others to pray for us, but must leave it up to God to either heal or not heal. What we should understand is that our mortal bodies are subject to sickness, death, and decay, but God has promised to raise up the saints in perfect, immortal, glorified bodes for eternity.
    And there faith has ceased, or didn't even exist to begin with. How does an elder through the prayer of faith save the sick, if they do not believe it is God's will to heal? The prayer of faith is something administered to the sick, in order to be healed. It is not a guessing game. It is praying in the name of Jesus, which has the authority to heal, in order to glorify the Son through the manifestation of healing.

    Do you see the consequences of your words, your beliefs? Faith has been eliminated, so has belief (if healing is sought in the manner that you suggest). You're basically telling people to not have faith to be healed, its up to God. I am telling you that it is up to God, and His will is revealed through Jesus Christ who healed all. So a person can have faith to be healed. Under your belief system a person cannot even begin to have faith to be healed.
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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    The prayer of faith is something administered to the sick, in order to be healed. It is not a guessing game. It is praying in the name of Jesus, which has the authority to heal, in order to glorify the Son through the manifestation of healing.
    You seem to be forgetting something essential. "Faith" is another word for TRUST, and when Christians trust God and Christ to do what is for their glory and for the good of the saints, that is an exercise of faith. Leaving things up to God is in fact faith (contrary to what you think). And let's not forget that great man of faith -- Paul -- who prayed thrice for healing and was turned down for a greater good.

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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    You seem to be forgetting something essential. "Faith" is another word for TRUST, and when Christians trust God and Christ to do what is for their glory and for the good of the saints, that is an exercise of faith. Leaving things up to God is in fact faith (contrary to what you think). And let's not forget that great man of faith -- Paul -- who prayed thrice for healing and was turned down for a greater good.
    Paul's thorn in the flesh wasn't physical (a sickness), the verse itself says it.

    2 Corinthians 12:7-8 King James Version (KJV)

    7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
    8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.

    There are a few things to notice about the thorn in the flesh.

    1. The messenger of satan.
    2. "To buffet me"
    3. Paul wanted it to depart from him.

    First and foremost, we understand that the context and verse do not say that it was a physical sickness. It says that it, the thorn in flesh (read as like someone being a pain in the neck), was a messenger of satan. In the Greek "messenger" means angelos (
    http://biblehub.com/greek/angelos_32.htm ). In other words, Paul's thorn in the flesh was a fallen angel.

    Now, what did this fallen angel do to Paul? It reads that it buffeted him. What does Paul mean that the thorn in the flesh was sent to buffet him?

    If you look up the Greek for buffet in this verse it means "kolaphizo." Here are some examples...

    Matthew 26:67 V-AIA-3P
    GRK: αὐτοῦ καὶ ἐκολάφισαν αὐτόν οἱ
    NAS: in His face and beat Him with their fists; and others
    KJV: face, and buffeted him; and
    INT: of him and struck him others

    Mark 14:65 V-PNA
    GRK: πρόσωπον καὶ κολαφίζειν αὐτὸν καὶ
    NAS: at Him, and to blindfold Him, and to beat Him with their fists, and to say
    KJV: face, and to buffet him, and
    INT: face and to strike him and

    1 Corinthians 4:11 V-PIM/P-1P
    GRK: γυμνιτεύομεν καὶ κολαφιζόμεθα καὶ ἀστατοῦμεν
    NAS: and are poorly clothed, and are roughly treated, and are homeless;
    KJV: and are buffeted, and
    INT: are naked and are struck and wander without a home

    2 Corinthians 12:7 V-PSA-3S
    GRK: ἵνα με κολαφίζῃ ἵνα μὴ
    NAS: of Satan to torment me -- to keep
    KJV: of Satan to buffet me, lest
    INT: that me he might torment that not

    1 Peter 2:20 V-PPM/P-NMP
    GRK: ἁμαρτάνοντες καὶ κολαφιζόμενοι ὑπομενεῖτε ἀλλ'
    NAS: when you sin and are harshly treated, you endure
    KJV: when ye be buffeted for your faults,
    INT: sinning and being struck you endure it but

    Notice in context all of these examples are in essence persecution. Physical beatings, being harshly treated, struck, etc. What do we know of Paul in relation to persecution? He got stoned! So this thorn in the flesh, a fallen angel, buffeted Paul through persecution. It seems that it added difficulty to His mission (of preaching the Gospel) and yet to keep him humble, to not glory in himself due to revelations, this thorn in the flesh was given to him.

    The third point is that the Apostle Paul wanted this fallen angel to depart from him! The use of the word depart in relation to the thorn in the flesh, to me at least, is an interesting word choice. He wanted it to leave. He doesn't use some word as to be healed, but for something to leave.

    Over all, and given the context of the passage the thorn is clearly shown to be a fallen angel (and not a sickness), and it persecuted him, adding difficulty to his task which goes in line with the verse that follows.

    2 Corinthians 12:10 King James Version (KJV)

    10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

    This all has to do with suffering for Christ's sake, as an apostle of God sent to preach the Gospel. This has nothing to do with a physical sickness (that he supposedly had) but persecution for sharing the Gospel.
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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Jesus and His Word are the base of our faith.
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    "Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." (Hosea 6.3).

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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    It is tested daily my friend. Believers go out into the streets, lay hands on the sick, and see them be made well. They pray in the name of Jesus, administer healing in the name of Jesus, and are led of the Spirit (for His timing and purposes). This too is a part of the topic of healing, being led by God for if He sends you He will equip you for the task at hand.


    If God was served or heals in a way of being worshiped by human hands that could apply. But God has no needs satisfying all the good purpose of His will. But it would seem to apply only to those who would seek after as sign of healing before they will believe God .The Jews required a sign of healing before they would commit faith. It was like do a miracle then we will trust . They stumbled over the cross as the emblem for being healing. Signs are for those who rebel, prophecy the unseen for those who believe.

    James 5:15 King James Version (KJV
    And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

    Faith is always in respect to that not seen, for who prays for that in which they already have? There are no sign gifts, we walk by the unseen (faith) His Kingdom does not come by observation.

    I see the verse in mention as saying that we should pray for the sick knowing God is not served by human hands as a way of acknowledging he alone heals men of the temporal illnesses. He heals all men by his common grace like a sunny day or brings rain in season. God does heal all temporal illness. And Give a new spirit that will never die to the elect that are trusting prophecy . And if the man in James has sinned he will forgiven instantaneously.

    Temporal (no guarantee he will heal again)Healing can take time, some suffer throughout their life. There is a promise they will be healed in a spiritual matter but no promise when God does heal physically it will not be the last time..... all men die.

    What we need is the last work of healing the receiving of our new incorruptible bodies.

    What Christians are waiting for is the last healing.
    Last edited by garee; April 12th, 2018 at 09:15 AM.

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    Default Re: What is the basis of our faith?

    Quote Originally Posted by BenFTW View Post
    In the context of healing this is somewhat of a red herring. What you are referring to is persecution, as opposed to bodily sickness, ailments, and the like. Even with persecution we see time and again God's deliverance and the setting free of God's people. His servants in the midst of fire and not being burned, for example.

    So even in the context of persecution I would encourage, biblically, a person to have faith in God to deliver them so that they may continue to preach the Gospel and save the lost.

    I understand there are martyrs for Jesus, persecuted to death (truly life). For these people they have a witness of undying loyalty to the Lord, and they will not deny Him, and neither shall He deny them.

    However, this is a red herring in this discussion on faith, because faith is even applicable in this situation. That being, deliverance and believing the Lord to save them from their enemies (which has happened). For those that face death (through persecution), due to the Gospel, the word tells them to rejoice in such suffering to be called worthy to suffer for His sake.

    Persecution is not the same as sickness, and healing has been made available to the sick through Christ by faith. Deliverance too is made available to those under persecution, so faith even here is of assistance (especially in regards to God's will in who that person is to reach with the Gospel).

    I don't see your charge of chastisement on my post as being appropriate, in the context of those suffering persecution. Even if it was chastisement, it would only be an encouragement to trust in the Lord. It wouldn't be beating them down but lifting them up.
    There's no such thing as diseases meant for persecution and those that are not. We are in the last days and people must People die through pestilences (Diseases), famine (Natural disasters), sword (Wars), beats of the earth (animals & machinery/accidents)- and all these makes up the tribulation that the saints have to go through. The saints shall die but win a crown of life as their victor’s gift.

    Only a few of the believers (Church of Philadelphia) are protected from these things and the reason is, they fully know God.

    Jer 24
    1After Jehoiachina son of Jehoiakim king of Judah and the officials, the skilled workers and the artisans of Judah were carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon by Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, the Lord showed me two baskets of figs placed in front of the temple of the Lord. 2One basket had very good figs, like those that ripen early; the other basket had very bad figs, so bad they could not be eaten.
    3Then the Lord asked me, “What do you see, Jeremiah?”
    “Figs,” I answered. “The good ones are very good, but the bad ones are so bad they cannot be eaten.”
    4Then the word of the Lord came to me: 5“This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Like these good figs, I regard as good the exiles from Judah, whom I sent away from this place to the land of the Babylonians.b 6My eyes will watch over them for their good, and I will bring them back to this land. I will build them up and not tear them down; I will plant them and not uproot them. 7I will give them a heart to know me, that I am the Lord. They will be my people, and I will be their God, for they will return to me with all their heart.
    8“ ‘But like the bad figs, which are so bad they cannot be eaten,’ says the Lord, ‘so will I deal with Zedekiah king of Judah, his officials and the survivors from Jerusalem, whether they remain in this land or live in Egypt. 9I will make them abhorrent and an offense to all the kingdoms of the earth, a reproach and a byword, a cursec and an object of ridicule, wherever I banish them. 10I will send the sword, famine and plague against them until they are destroyed from the land I gave to them and their ancestors.’ ”

    We are in Babylon right now, so don’t get it twisted.

    Rev 13: 9He who has an ear, let him hear. 10“Ifanyoneis destined forcaptivity,intocaptivityhe will go; Ifanyoneis to diebythe sword,bythe swordhemustbe killed. Here is a call for the perseveranceand faith of the saints.
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