Which is more important: Correct doctrine or a godly attitude toward others?

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Sep 4, 2012
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And you still don't seem to grasp that this is about love being of more importance over and above doctrine, not that doctrine is useless, and can be wrong, or can be neglected.

If you or I think our relationship with God is about doctrine and not about being like Christ, we've got a problem. We've missed it somewhere along the line. The strength and accuracy of our doctrine, or our service, will never replace being Christ-like in behavior and how we treat other people, though our natural tendency is to think it can and will. That is exactly how the Israelites went wrong. We should learn from their bad example.
The bible is pretty clear that being like Christ and knowing GOD are doing his word. That simply can't be gotten around. There are all kinds of counterfeit doctrines that distort the relationship between the spirit and the word, but the love they produce is phony, carnal, superficial, man-pleasing, self-pleasing. Only the spirit coupled with the word can produce agape, and that is the only love that matters.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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The bible is pretty clear that being like Christ and knowing GOD are doing his word. That simply can't be gotten around. There are all kinds of counterfeit doctrines that distort the relationship between the spirit and the word, but the love they produce is phony, carnal, superficial, man-pleasing, self-pleasing. Only the spirit coupled with the word can produce agape, and that is the only love that matters.
That is true, and knowing God and how to live well in God's kingdom has more importance for us both here and for the life we have to come. God wants us to talk about it and God knew we would disagree. He told us how to handle it.

We are not to talk about it as a religion, or as something that is different by how we believe. That would be like discussing the Grand Canyon as something you can change the looks of by your beliefs. But even in the Lord's prayer God tells us that we are not given the right to judge others. When we do we are trying to make ourselves gods. God will judge us based on our actions, but it is ONLY for God to do.

The Jews have a story I like to think about. It was during the time that the army of Egypt was drowning in the Red Sea and the Hebrew people were singing, joyful they were drowning so they were saved. God scolded the Hebrews saying "the people I created are drowning and you are singing!!"


 
Sep 4, 2012
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That is true, and knowing God and how to live well in God's kingdom has more importance for us both here and for the life we have to come. God wants us to talk about it and God knew we would disagree. He told us how to handle it.

We are not to talk about it as a religion, or as something that is different by how we believe. That would be like discussing the Grand Canyon as something you can change the looks of by your beliefs. But even in the Lord's prayer God tells us that we are not given the right to judge others. When we do we are trying to make ourselves gods. God will judge us based on our actions, but it is ONLY for God to do.

The Jews have a story I like to think about. It was during the time that the army of Egypt was drowning in the Red Sea and the Hebrew people were singing, joyful they were drowning so they were saved. God scolded the Hebrews saying "the people I created are drowning and you are singing!!"


Not sure what all of this means, but I have a comment. We are not to unjustly judge people, but we are to discern all things and judge each other if we are in sin. This doesn't seem like love to the world, but it is GOD's love.

But now I have written to you not to associate with any so-called brother, if he is a sexually immoral person or a greedy person or an idolater or an abusive person or a drunkard or a swindler—with such a person not even to eat. For what [is it] to me to judge those outside? Should you not judge those inside? But those outside God will judge. Remove the evil person from among yourselves. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13
 

LaurieB

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2018
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And you still don't seem to grasp that this is about love being of more importance over and above doctrine, not that doctrine is useless, and can be wrong, or can be neglected.

If you or I think our relationship with God is about doctrine and not about being like Christ, we've got a problem. We've missed it somewhere along the line. The strength and accuracy of our doctrine, or our service, will never replace being Christ-like in behavior and how we treat other people, though our natural tendency is to think it can and will. That is exactly how the Israelites went wrong. We should learn from their bad example.

Correct Ralph and they never will. Doctrine is their God. Salvation is the Goal. We are not to do good works or work our way into Heaven ... we are to believe the right things (doctrine) and THAT will get us into Heaven.That is the thinking Ralph. Your thinking is evolved. I believe you get it! Let's pray that we all get it.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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The talent that God gives a person is knowledge of the kingdom. Some are given much, while some are given less.

And indeed to one he gave five talents; and to one, two; and to one, one;
to each according to his own ability

(Matthew 25:15)

if talents are knowledge or understanding what's ability?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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how can i even know what "
a godly attitude" is unless i have and believe right doctrine?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Godly Attitude would be an interesting one to discuss. I'm sure we each have our very own different idea of what this is.

yes

i am sure that if we really look into it we'll find that almost all people have an opinion, many of them will have trouble putting it in words, and lots of people will turn out to have very different ideas about what that actually is, and that lots of those ideas turn out to be wrong.

we have to get that definition right, or it's worthless - which leads back to doctrine. which if it isn't actually believed, is worthless too, which leads back to practice.

it's a bit like asking "
which side of a quarter is the one worth 25¢?" - we're saved by belief, not actions, but salvation effects action. still belief may be genuine even without action, and genuine action may be performed in disbelief.

yes, what is "
a godly attitude" and what do we mean by "important" and "most" ?
important to who? for who? for what?
how is "
more" and "less" measured and who measures it?
 
Apr 16, 2018
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Christian Chat (especially the BDF) is rife with heated arguments about one doctrinal point or another. Some posts are well thought out and presented respectfully. Far too many posts, however, are attacks on a previous poster's character and personality.

The later responses appear to me to present an ungodly attitude toward others. I believe these to be (giving them the benefit of the doubt) from immature Christians, whether their doctrine is correct or not.

So, my question is, "Is it more important to have a 'correct' doctrine and treat your brothers and sisters insultingly, disrespectfully, and ungodly, or, is is better to have a God honoring attitude that reflects the love of Jesus to others and not necessarily have the 'correct' doctrinal position.

A second related question is: "Is Christian maturity measured by 'correct' doctrine or a God honoring character?"

(We will assume a true belief and acceptance of God's Son, Jesus, as ones Lord and Savior on the part of the offending poster.)

Thank you for your comments.
"Religious correctness" is NOT what Jesus displayed (Matthew 21:12; Matthew 23) when people were IN ERROR! Until one is in "THE FAITH" (II Corinthians 13:5) GOD told us "This witness is true. Wherefore REBUKE THEM SHARPLY, that they may be SOUND IN "THE FAITH!"

I know RELIGION has taught "the fruit of the Spirit" but HOW can one have "the fruit of the Spirit" when they haven't acquired "THE SPIRIT" which is given by being Holy Spirit baptized according to how JESUS SAID (Mark 16:16-20; I Corinthians 12:7-10; 13; Acts 1:5; 8)?

How can you NOT have "CONFORMATION" as *JESUS SAID* yet THINK "I'm saved" because I believe in "saving faith?" "FAITH" is a "Spiritual gift" given to the "members of the body of Christ" who have been Holy Spirit baptized (I Corinthians 12:13) and doesn't come from "LIP SERVICE" (Matthew 15:8)!

Consequently, it doesn't matter WHAT YOU BELIEVE if your salvation didn't come the way JESUS SAID with "CONFORMATION" of the "POWER" (Acts 1:8) to perform the MIRACULOUS "SIGNS THAT FOLLOW" (Mark 16:16-20) you are NOT "in" Christ and "you worship you no not what" (John 4:22)!

"Correct doctrine" who "guides us into all truth" (John 16:13) *AFTER* Holy Spirit baptism (Philippians 2:13)!
 
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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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HOW can one have "the fruit of the Spirit" when they haven't acquired "THE SPIRIT"
in industry, chemists reverse-engineer samples, identify & isolate active agents, and synthetically reproduce the desired characteristics.

seeing a photograph isn't the same as seeing with your eye, and even when i look at a painting in person, the light in my eye isn't "
the painting" and the painting itself isn't the thing it represents.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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True doctrine produces true love while false doctrine produces false love, which likely looks much the same on the surface. Hence, there are those I would not believe if they professed, or even 'showed', their love to me, because I do not believe lies. And likewise, there are those that would not believe me if I were to profess love to them because they do not believe the truth.
 
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Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Not sure what all of this means, but I have a comment. We are not to unjustly judge people, but we are to discern all things and judge each other if we are in sin. This doesn't seem like love to the world, but it is GOD's love.
But now I have written to you not to associate with any so-called brother, if he is a sexually immoral person or a greedy person or an idolater or an abusive person or a drunkard or a swindler—with such a person not even to eat. For what [is it] to me to judge those outside? Should you not judge those inside? But those outside God will judge. Remove the evil person from among yourselves. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13
All you say is so true, and it means that our walk has to be on a very narrow path. When someone sins we are to be able to judge that sin and even be able to give people a hand away from the sin they are in, but not judge them at the same time. Impossible unless we are holding the hand of the Lord.

I am living in an assisted living facility and the one Christian here just left for the hospital. A minister comes in on Sunday but I am the only one who goes. The poor man knows about grace and Jesus, but he doesn't recognize the Father of Jesus or anything about our walk with God after salvation. So I must go to others to share with. By living completely apart from my brothers and sisters in Christ, yet loving these people, it is a lesson to learn. I can only bring them to
Christ by living it and not sharing it when it would be rejected.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
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yes

i am sure that if we really look into it we'll find that almost all people have an opinion, many of them will have trouble putting it in words, and lots of people will turn out to have very different ideas about what that actually is, and that lots of those ideas turn out to be wrong.

we have to get that definition right, or it's worthless - which leads back to doctrine. which if it isn't actually believed, is worthless too, which leads back to practice.

it's a bit like asking "
which side of a quarter is the one worth 25¢?" - we're saved by belief, not actions, but salvation effects action. still belief may be genuine even without action, and genuine action may be performed in disbelief.

yes, what is "
a godly attitude" and what do we mean by "important" and "most" ?
important to who? for who? for what?
how is "
more" and "less" measured and who measures it?
​I think a Godly attitude is one that tries to speak through the Lord and not through their own ego.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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​I think a Godly attitude is one that tries to speak through the Lord and not through their own ego.
That's the way I see it. Seeking GOD's glory instead of our own. Also remaining holy by standing apart from the world.
 
Apr 16, 2018
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All you say is so true, and it means that our walk has to be on a very narrow path. When someone sins we are to be able to judge that sin and even be able to give people a hand away from the sin they are in, but not judge them at the same time. Impossible unless we are holding the hand of the Lord.

I am living in an assisted living facility and the one Christian here just left for the hospital. A minister comes in on Sunday but I am the only one who goes. The poor man knows about grace and Jesus, but he doesn't recognize the Father of Jesus or anything about our walk with God after salvation. So I must go to others to share with. By living completely apart from my brothers and sisters in Christ, yet loving these people, it is a lesson to learn. I can only bring them to
Christ by living it and not sharing it when it would be rejected.
You're one of the few that know we are to help our brother when we see them sin. To sin is to go against what God has said and it is an ever ending battle to teach what God has said when people don't want to "press for the mark of a higher calling." God said we are to "change from glory to glory" (II Corinthians 3:18) but proclaimed Christians have become "complacent" in their self righteousness and don't wish to change. This is ungodly in the sight of God.

Leviticus 19:17 says "Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbor and not suffer sin upon him."

However, when you try to live according to the word of God, and tell people that they're not in line with the Gospel of Christ, they do everything and call you everything BUT a child of God.

It's unreal!

Blessings:)
 

Grandpa

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2011
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Correct doctrine is a miracle.

Godly attitude is a miracle.


Which miracle is most important? You can't have either one without asking God for it.

So a better question would be "which would you ask God for, correct doctrine or Godly attitude"?

Why wouldn't you ask for both? Why do you not know that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him?

John 3:27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

Hebrews 7:7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better.


I thank God that I am not like these other fellows and I have godly attitude. NO, no, no.

I just thank God. And I tell others where I got all these blessings from so they can be blessed as well.


Ephesians 1:3-6
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ;
[SUP]4 [/SUP]According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
[SUP]6 [/SUP]To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.


[SUB][/SUB]
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
And indeed to one he gave five talents; and to one, two; and to one, one;
to each according to his own ability

(Matthew 25:15)

if talents are knowledge or understanding what's ability?
The ability to grasp and understand the knowledge being given.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
113
I think the talents are faith.

​For by the grace given to me I say to everyone who is among you not to think more highly of yourself than what one ought to think, but to think sensibly, as God has apportioned a measure of faith to each one. Romans 12:3
 
R

Ralph-

Guest

yes, what is "
a godly attitude"
The fruit of the Spirit. Galatians 5:22-23



and what do we mean by "
important" and "most" ?
important to who? for who? for what?
how is "
more" and "less" measured and who measures it?
How you act is the measure of saving faith, not what you know. That's why how you act is more important than what you know. Doctrinal knowledge and accuracy does not mean you know the Lord in salvation or that you're living for Him.

But so many people think knowledge and correct and accurate believing about various doctrinal topics is what it means to have faith and know God in salvation. That's not knocking correct and accurate believing about things. That's knocking thinking you know the Lord and He knows you because you have knowledge about the things of the faith. That's a poor measure of your relationship with God. But that is what many seem to rely on to decide they are right with God.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
I think the talents are faith.
​For by the grace given to me I say to everyone who is among you not to think more highly of yourself than what one ought to think, but to think sensibly, as God has apportioned a measure of faith to each one. Romans 12:3
When you compare the Parable of the Talents to the Parable of the Sower you will see that the talent is the equivalent of the seed sown, which is the knowledge of the kingdom.

Simply possessing the knowledge of the kingdom is not enough. But so many people take false comfort in their knowing over and above actually living out the knowledge of the kingdom they have received.