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Thread: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grandpa View Post
    Lawyers and judaizers can't understand the New Covenant.

    First of all they don't even really want to understand.

    And second the bible says why they don't understand. In a few places.


    John 3:18-21
    18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
    19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
    20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
    21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
    A Judinizer as the church today makes him is simply anyome who believes what David tells us of God in the psalms and who believes scripture.

    As you deny scripture and deny the divinity of God, it is you who are not accepting Christ whose blood was shed to save you.

    Perhaps you are getting the covenant made with Moses one of salvation. It was not. Salvation was and always has been through innocen6 blood. Those promises were of blessings.

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    Senior Member notmyown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blik View Post
    In Jeremiah 31:31 we are told God will make a new covenant, a new covenant with Israel not with the gentiles.

    Gentiles speak of a new covenant as if it is if it is with them and it wipes out Old Testament scripture.
    Scripture tells us God is eternal. If God is eternal and tells us of eternal principles a new covenant would add t0, not wipe out.
    hear what the Lord Jesus says...

    I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. (Jn 10:14-16)

    believing Jews, believing gentiles, ONE flock under the covenant of Redemption. no distinctions, and the Apostles were zealous to preserve this unity. we should be, too.
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blik View Post
    In Jeremiah 31:31 we are told God will make a new covenant, a new covenant with Israel not with the gentiles.
    It is true that the New Covenant was primarily for Israel. But it is also true that the Gospel -- which is rooted in the New Covenant -- is for BOTH Jews and Gentiles. Indeed FOR THE WHOLE WORLD. The New Covenant was established and ratified by the blood of Christ which He shed on the Cross. So the New Covenant is for all who will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Gentiles speak of a new covenant as if it is if it is with them and it wipes out Old Testament scripture.
    You have simply created A STRAW MAN for your own reasons. No Christian -- Jew or Gentile -- will ever assert that the Old Testament Scriptures have been wiped out. But God Himself tells us in the epistle to the Hebrews that the Old Covenant is NULL AND VOID. So study Hebrews.
    Scripture tells us God is eternal. If God is eternal and tells us of eternal principles a new covenant would add to, not wipe out.
    Yes God is indeed eternal, but the Old Covenant was not meant to be eternal. That is why God sent His only begotten Son into the world to become the Lamb of God.

    It is quited evident that you are very confused about this whole matter. Especially since you call Christianity "a new religion".
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    Senior Member tanakh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    If we are meant to follow the Old Covenant how come God prevented us by allowing the Temple to be destroyed in AD70? Fact is that no one has followed it since that date including the Jews.

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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    It is true that the New Covenant was primarily for Israel. But it is also true that the Gospel -- which is rooted in the New Covenant -- is for BOTH Jews and Gentiles. Indeed FOR THE WHOLE WORLD. The New Covenant was established and ratified by the blood of Christ which He shed on the Cross. So the New Covenant is for all who will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

    You have simply created A STRAW MAN for your own reasons. No Christian -- Jew or Gentile -- will ever assert that the Old Testament Scriptures have been wiped out. But God Himself tells us in the epistle to the Hebrews that the Old Covenant is NULL AND VOID. So study Hebrews.

    Yes God is indeed eternal, but the Old Covenant was not meant to be eternal. That is why God sent His only begotten Son into the world to become the Lamb of God.

    It is quited evident that you are very confused about this whole matter. Especially since you call Christianity "a new religion".
    What is null and void? We still have a high priest, Christ is our high priest. We still have blood for salvation, Christ gave his blood for salvation. We must go to the old covenant to understand the new.
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    Quote Originally Posted by joaniemarie View Post
    The question of the covenants are really important because many Christians don't understand what it means. I was saved for 40yrs. and never heard of us being in any kind of new covenant that changed from the old testament. Our family believed and still do (I don't) that the only difference is we don't follow the Jewish laws and traditions of Jewish ceremonies., or sacrifice sheep and goats like they did. We had different kinds of "traditions" as Christians.

    The deeper meaning of no longer depending on the works of the law worked out in our flesh for our right standing with God is major. Today Christians are saved by grace through faith in Jesus but many are living by their works. We also need to LIVE and walk by grace through faith by the spirit because of Christ . That is what we are called to.. Faith in the finished work of Jesus and not our unfinished works of daily life here on earth.

    Walk IN the spirit-man (new creation) directed and lead by the HolySpirit. This cannot be done by our flesh (old manner of life and living) It must be done by our new spirit man made in Christ when we were born again.

    Romans 8:1-2


    Therefore, [there is] now no condemnation (no adjudging guilty of wrong) for those who are in Christ Jesus.

    2
    For the law of the Spirit of life [which is] in Christ Jesus [the law of our new being] has freed me from the law of sin and of death.

    FOR THE LAW OF THE SPIRIT OF LIFE IN CHIRST JESUS HAS FREED ME FROM THE LAW OF SIN AND OF DEATH.
    We are not to get stuck on one truth so that we cannot accept other truths.

    It is true that our God is so Holy that only He can save us, we can't do it through what we do. We are to bow before a Holy God.

    It is true that God created our world to work in certain ways, well defined and exact. We call them laws. When we operate our life in accordance with those laws we are blessed.

    These are two separate truths that can stand alone.

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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    Quote Originally Posted by tanakh View Post
    If we are meant to follow the Old Covenant how come God prevented us by allowing the Temple to be destroyed in AD70? Fact is that no one has followed it since that date including the Jews.
    If you mean be following the old covenant to use the innocent blood of animals for salvation as a symbol of Christ after we have Christ, that does not make sense. It does not follow scripture.

    What actually happened was that in 70 and 132 the Romans killed off so many Christian Jews who had served as leaders of the Christians that gentiles took over leadership. The church under Jews was called the Way and they believed that all God the Father said was correct. They followed God's guidance. The gentiles got following God all mixed up with what they had learned about a God so they Christianized what they knew. Sun worshipers like Constantine had always gone o their church on Sunday, so they found Christ was discovered to by risen on Sunday and they changed what God had decreed to that day. The church that was established by Christ and that established by such as Origen, Clement, or Constantine where very different. The church today follows the early fathers, not the Way as Christ's apostles established it.

    The Jews have been blinded to Christ. They have much to learn about God's grace, yet their culture is one that does its best to be obedient--something gentiles don't pretend even to try for. Statistics tell us that their obedience pays off in wealth, education and brains.
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    In response to the OP title, no.

    Reading Christ's words we discover He imparts the "faith of Abraham." That is to say the same faith our Father, Abraham had.
    I capitalized Father because the name Abraham also may translate as "Honored Father of Nations," which is our Heavenly Father.

    The only manner to follow anything truly is to follow the teachings, that is the Gospel of Jesus Christ while doing our bet to imitate Him.......If you do this you are doing all possible to please God.
    Blik likes this.
    From the Mouth of our Lord, Jesus Christ, or do you call Him Yeshua?
    Mat 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.


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    Senior Member Nehemiah6's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blik View Post
    What is null and void?
    The Old Covenant.
    We still have a high priest, Christ is our high priest.
    After the order of Melchizedek, of the tribe of Judah, and NOT from the tribe of Levi. BIG DIFFERENCE.
    We still have blood for salvation, Christ gave his blood for salvation.
    Not the blood of animals, but the blood of the Son of God, who is the God-Man called "the Lamb of God". BIG DIFFERENCE
    We must go to the old covenant to understand the new.
    Quite the opposite. One does not go to the types and shadows to determine the reality. The reality is Christ and His blood shed for our redemption. Therefore the Old Covenant must be understood as a temporary covenant "until the time of reformation" (the establishment of the New Covenant).
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nehemiah6 View Post
    It is true that the New Covenant was primarily for Israel. But it is also true that the Gospel -- which is rooted in the New Covenant -- is for BOTH Jews and Gentiles. Indeed FOR THE WHOLE WORLD. The New Covenant was established and ratified by the blood of Christ which He shed on the Cross. So the New Covenant is for all who will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

    You have simply created A STRAW MAN for your own reasons. No Christian -- Jew or Gentile -- will ever assert that the Old Testament Scriptures have been wiped out. But God Himself tells us in the epistle to the Hebrews that the Old Covenant is NULL AND VOID. So study Hebrews.

    Yes God is indeed eternal, but the Old Covenant was not meant to be eternal. That is why God sent His only begotten Son into the world to become the Lamb of God.

    It is quited evident that you are very confused about this whole matter. Especially since you call Christianity "a new religion".
    It seems to me that confusion is yours....Blik did not assert christianity a new religion but simply asked a question.
    It seems christianity itself wants to be 'cut off/detatched from God's Foundational teachings in the OT and are REFUSING to return as LOST sheep they have become !
    The NC is not for separate people ie Jews and Gentiles....it is for ONE FLOCK all sharing alike. Christians have never turned to the God of Israel who is also Lord of the Sabbath but are determined to follow a lawless jesus who nailed the Fathers Commandments to the cross....including Sabbath.
    It is the God of Israel and Lord of Sabbath who will judge the world and those who reject Him or 'sit on the fence holding 2 opinions' will hear the words: 'depart from me I never knew you'....
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    Quote Originally Posted by notmyown View Post
    hear what the Lord Jesus says...

    I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me, even as the Father knows Me and I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep. I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will hear My voice; and they will become one flock with one shepherd. (Jn 10:14-16)

    believing Jews, believing gentiles, ONE flock under the covenant of Redemption. no distinctions, and the Apostles were zealous to preserve this unity. we should be, too.
    Peter certainly was ''For you were as sheep going astray; but are now returned 'unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.'
    christians have not returned yet but insist on their own fold !
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    The old covenant is nothing but a prophesy/a promise; normally, a prophesy is not supposed to be kept but fulfilled- The new covenant is the fulfillment of the old covenant. It is fulfilled through us by the way of Christ.

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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Noose View Post
    The old covenant is nothing but a prophesy/a promise; normally, a prophesy is not supposed to be kept but fulfilled- The new covenant is the fulfillment of the old covenant. It is fulfilled through us by the way of Christ.
    There is such a thing as Roots and Foundation from which come New Growth...why did God start with such a system and tried to teach it for thousands of years if it is of such little value ?
    Building castles in the air or on shifting sand is not what God wants us to do...we are to build on HIS Foundation upon which the cornerstone is laid.
    Jesus Himself our tried and tested cornerstone started by keeping the Fathers Commandments and to 'be conformed to HIS image we must do also !
    Even though a SON He learned obedience.....as we are to obey Him Heb 5v8,9.
    Last edited by beta; 5 Days Ago at 09:27 AM.
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    Senior Member tanakh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Blik View Post
    If you mean be following the old covenant to use the innocent blood of animals for salvation as a symbol of Christ after we have Christ, that does not make sense. It does not follow scripture.

    What actually happened was that in 70 and 132 the Romans killed off so many Christian Jews who had served as leaders of the Christians that gentiles took over leadership. The church under Jews was called the Way and they believed that all God the Father said was correct. They followed God's guidance. The gentiles got following God all mixed up with what they had learned about a God so they Christianized what they knew. Sun worshipers like Constantine had always gone o their church on Sunday, so they found Christ was discovered to by risen on Sunday and they changed what God had decreed to that day. The church that was established by Christ and that established by such as Origen, Clement, or Constantine where very different. The church today follows the early fathers, not the Way as Christ's apostles established it.

    The Jews have been blinded to Christ. They have much to learn about God's grace, yet their culture is one that does its best to be obedient--something gentiles don't pretend even to try for. Statistics tell us that their obedience pays off in wealth, education and brains.
    I dont know where you got your early church history from and I'm not going to delve into your version too far. I will mention that the Jerusalem Church was led by Jews from the time of James the Just up until the Bar Kochba revolt in 132. After that revolt the Romans banned Jews from entering Jerusalem so the Church leadership was taken over by Gentiles. Most of the churches outside Judea were planted by Paul a Pharisee so the idea that members had no idea about God is ludicrous also many of the Gentiles had attended Synagogues prior to their Christian conversion and were known as God Fearers.
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    Quote Originally Posted by beta View Post
    There is such a thing as Roots and Foundation from which come New Growth...why did God start with such a system and tried to teach it for thousands of years if it is of such little value ?
    Building castles in the air or on shifting sand is not what God wants us to do...we are to build on HIS Foundation upon which the cornerstone is laid.
    Jesus Himself our tried and tested cornerstone started by keeping the Fathers Commandments and to 'be conformed to HIS image we must do also !
    Even though a SON He learned obedience.....as we are to obey Him Heb 5v8,9.
    The foundation were with Adam and Eve and even that was a prophesy.

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    Senior Member Dino246's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    It appears to me that this conversation is an exercise in convolution.

    God has one plan for salvation: faith in Christ, in His shed blood as sufficient payment for sin, and in His resurrection to life.

    The Law (the old covenant) was given to Israel to show mankind his inability to earn righteousness, and to point us to Christ.

    "The reality, however, is found in Christ." (Col 2:17)

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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    The OP's intent is not clearly stated in the opening post, but I suspect sabbath keeping is in mind when it was posted.

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    Senior Member tanakh's Avatar
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    For anyone interested here is a list of names of the Jewish leaders of the Jerusalem Church as given by Eusebius in his History of the Church Book IV Chapter 5

    James
    Symeon
    Justus
    Zachaeus
    Tobius
    Benjamin
    John
    Matthias
    Philip
    Seneca
    Justus
    Levi
    Ephres
    Joseph
    Judas

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    The reason the church became "Gentile dominated" is because after a while there were more in the nations coming to Christ than Jews/Israelites.
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    Default Re: Do we have a new reigion that Christ started called the new ovenant?

    Quote Originally Posted by Locutus View Post
    The OP's intent is not clearly stated in the opening post, but I suspect sabbath keeping is in mind when it was posted.
    What was in my mind was to help people think through the need to accept the entire changbible as scripture. Since the Holocaust and Jews returning to the Holy Land God has opened many people's eyes to the need to accept what the Father teaches us and learning that the idea that the Son changed what the Father told us is a wrong interpretation of scripture. Translations have used the word fulfilled to explain Christ and the church has said that means ended. It doesn't. I means that all OT spoke of in the coming Messiah happened through Christ, Christ was what the OT spoke of.

    I would also like to make people aware that while the Lord wants all people to live with Him forever, to be saved, God also wants them to live here in peace, contentment, and joy. He gave us His law so they can do that. Christ did not take that from us.

    Honoring the day God blessed is a tiny part of what I would like for all the people God created.
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