Truth you never heard...

[Studyman]

=

Jason1975;3546572]1. God does not punish anyone for the sins of another.

This means any church that preaches all are born with "the sin of Adam" upon them, is preaching a falsehood... because sin seperate us from God... and that "inherited" separation is a type of punishment.

2. God doesn't punish the innocent.

The things you do without knowledge of right and wrong are done in innocence. So, when Adam and Eve bit the apple from "the tree of knowledge of good and evil"... they didn't yet know what good or evil was. Thos means they bit the apple in innocense. Something God does not punish.

If The Word which became Flesh had not told Adam and Eve not to eat from the tree, then they would have been innocent. But He gave them a specific command "Do not eat of the tree" and they saw fit to reject His Word's and listen to someone else, and eat anyway.


There is no need to continue on if you do not teach this basic truth about God and His Word.

 

[Noose]

The doctrine of headship and authority is well supported in scripture.

But, 1 Timothy 2:12-13 is aimed at explaining why a woman isn’t allowed to teach or usurp authority over a man. So, I see no differerence on the matter of authority.

As for the rest of your post I see we do differ on...

1. You believe in sin as an evil spirit.
But you provided no proof of the notion.

2. You said sin already existed in Eve.
But James 1 proves that sin must be first, fathered, conceived and then born.
( I have posted on this before reading your post)

3. You claim to know at what moment Eve became ashamed of her nakedness.
But, you provided no proof.

1. Sin is the spirit of lie. Spirit = mind, what is in the mind is expressed as either words or through flesh by actions. As much as we are used to calling the action or words SIN, sin is a spirit/mind.
Adam and Eve's actions were but a manifestation of the actual sin. These actions were punished accordingly for each but the actual sin which was counted on Adam only, is punished by eternal death.

It is easy to prove this notion because it is said sin and therefore death came to the world through Adam. We overcome this and have eternal life by receiving the spirit of truth & life which comes from God.

2. Like have explained in point 1 above. How does one receive a spirit? by hearing and believing. Just as we hear the gospel and believe the gospel or the word of God and we receive the spirit of truth, Eve heard and believed satan and received the spirit of lie- it was already in her just waiting to be expressed both in word (when he lied to Adam) and in action (when she ate the forbidden fruit). Yes, the sin was fathered by satan.

3. Gen 3:6And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat. 7And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

This is straight forward because we know Eve ate first but she didn't realize she was naked, their eyes were opened when Adam ate the fruit.

 

[trevormax]

First Of all Adam and Eve knew of the command not to eat of the fruit of the tree of knowledge. After Adam and Eve sinned they justly suffered the penalty for their sin. THis penalty also was known to them. You can read it in scripture.
Now coming to inheriting the sin nature , do you not know that genes are passed down from parents to children? If your dad is bald there is a high chance of probability of you getting bald. Now imagine Adam and Eve becoming spirtually dead ( spiritually not in fellwoship with God) , and ther bodies cursed , their minds and emotions affected by that Sin and the penal consequences which it attracted. It is absolutely natural and logical for them to pass on.
TO make it more understandable to you, if God decided to punish a woman for her sins with a disease like leprosy, or some other contagious disease, will her child not get the disease?

 

[Billyd]

This discussion seems to be missing something. Maybe some of you experts can answer this question for me.

Did Adam and Eve first engage in sexual relations while in the Garden or after they were cast out?

 

[Noose]

This discussion seems to be missing something. Maybe some of you experts can answer this question for me.

Did Adam and Eve first engage in sexual relations while in the Garden or after they were cast out?

After they were cast out. They were like children before that and they didn't even realize their nakedness because they didn't have 'that knowledge', after their eyes were opened (gaining that knowledge), they were cast out of Eden.

 

[Magenta]

This discussion seems to be missing something. Maybe some of you experts can answer this question for me.

Did Adam and Eve first engage in sexual relations while in the Garden or after they were cast out?

In Genesis 1:28,

God blessed them (Adam and Eve) and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

This was before they ate the fruit of the forbidden tree of knowledge of good and evil.

 

[Noose]

Gen 3:24After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side[SUP]e[/SUP] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.

Gen 4:1Adam[SUP]a[/SUP] made love to his wife Eve, and she became pregnant and gave birth to Cain.[SUP]b[/SUP] She said, “With the help of the Lord I have brought forth[SUP]c[/SUP] a man.” 2Later she gave birth to his brother Abel.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

TO make it more understandable to you, if God decided to punish a woman for her sins with a disease like leprosy, or some other contagious disease, will her child not get the disease?

well that certainly sounds very old testamentish

God also says He will visit the sins of the fathers on their children no more

just brings us back to the logical conclusion, IMO, if not Adam and Eve then it would have been Joe and Sally

how do I know why? God knows what will happen before it does. That, is all I know

which is why He always had a solution to our sin from the get go

God resolves things in ways we cannot comprehend and for reasons I don't think we understand as much as we think we do

one day though we will and it will come together. we will know even as we are now known

 

[Didymous]

You sound like an adherent to Carlton Pearson's gospel of inclusion.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You sound like an adherent to Carlton Pearson's gospel of inclusion.

only because you do not understand what I wrote

and by the way, the last sentence is from Paul. the one who wrote more than half of the NT

 

[Didymous]

I was referring to the OP, not you. But I forgot to quote the OP, so my apologies.

 

[Magenta]

I was referring to the OP, not you. But ok then​

Hello Thomas. Is there some reason you do not use the Reply With Quote option? It is helpful on discussion boards for others to know whom and what you are addressing

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I was referring to the OP, not you. But I forgot to quote the OP, so my apologies.

huh...sorry then

but how was I to know? you wrote right under me and so I assumed (silly I know) you were talking to me

but I see where Magenta has mentioned the quote feature. that would just make clear the person you are really addressing

good thing I didn't go off on a tangent then, eh?

 

[Didymous]

Hello Thomas. Is there some reason you do not use the Reply With Quote option? It is helpful on discussion boards for others to know whom and what you are addressing

I forget sometimes. Also, I am on my phone, so sometimes I hit the reply button- even though. Meant to hot the reply with quote button. Big fingers; little phone.

 

[Didymous]

huh...sorry then

but how was I to know? you wrote right under me and so I assumed (silly I know) you were talking to me

but I see where Magenta has mentioned the quote feature. that would just make clear the person you are really addressing

good thing I didn't go off on a tangent then, eh?

Yes, I appreciate that.

 

[Didymous]

1. God does not punish anyone for the sins of another.

This means any church that preaches all are born with "the sin of Adam" upon them, is preaching a falsehood... because sin seperate us from God... and that "inherited" separation is a type of punishment.

2. God doesn't punish the innocent.

The things you do without knowledge of right and wrong are done in innocence. So, when Adam and Eve bit the apple from "the tree of knowledge of good and evil"... they didn't yet know what good or evil was. Thos means they bit the apple in innocense. Something God does not punish.

3. Being forced to leave the garden was not a punishment... it was a blessing.

God created us that we might find joy... and all things must come in opposition or joy cannot be found: if you've never known hunger you can't be grateful or appreciate food; if you've never known cold you won't find joy in warmth; if every sunset is the same... "ho hum... the sun is going down."

Being forced out of the garden was actually God saying, "I want you to find joy. I want you to appreciate the fruits of your own labor, and the blessing if filling a grumbling stomach. I want you to know the joys of both of you leaving one to another on cold nights to find warmth. I want you to feel the sun of your face after a hard rain so you can appreciate the better times. I want you to know a a beautiful sunset from any other... SO.. you can't stay here in the garden... because no joy can be known without also knowing suffering."

4. God does not set people up for failure.

This means, when God told Adam and Eve to multiply and replenish the earth... He also wanted them to teach their children up in the ways of righteousness... and warn them of evil. This means Adam and Eve need to have the knowledge of good and evil in order to be successful parents... and it was actually in Eve's wisdom that she realized this.

And because God doesn't set us up for failure... He didn't allow us to follow Adam and Eve into this world until they gained the knowledge they needed. ... if they didn't eat that apple.. we'd still be waiting for them to bite it.

5. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life.

He is the way back to Heavenly Father (no one may come before the Father except through Jesus Christ)... and Jesus is 100% of the truth... and He is life eternal.

We also no that if any should deny Jesus... He will deny them before the Father.

So... if you deny these truths... even if they only make up 1% of the entire truth of Jesus... then He will deny you to that same extent... because denying truth means denying Jesus.

This also means that if tou attend a church that refutes these simple truths... that church is not of God. -- there may be much good in that church... but it is teaching up to one day be denied 1% of the way back to Heavenly Father... and that means that Satan loves the church you go to.

There's only one church that teaches these truths... look for it... and rely only on the Holy Ghost for your guidance to it.

That church will always be demonized by others... but do you have faith to enter it... accept it... and desire enough to be part of it?

There are so many more truths to uncover... but for now these should suffice. And if it be wisdom in God that you should read these things... having a pure and sincere intent to know the truth...and asking God... having faith in Jesus Christ... the truth of these things will be made manifest unto you.

I say these things in the name of Jesus Christ.. amen.

You sound like an adherent of Carlton Pearson's gospel of inclusion.

 

[Joseppi]

1. Sin is the spirit of lie. Spirit = mind, what is in the mind is expressed as either words or through flesh by actions.

Do you have scripture?

2. How does one receive a spirit?

Eve wasn’t mindless before the serpent tempted her.
When God breathed into Adam he became a living soul, he didn’t become a spirit. Yet he had his mind.

Just as we hear the gospel and believe the gospel or the word of God and we receive the spirit of truth.

The words of Jesus are spirit and life.

The words of the Devil are neither spirit, nor life.

Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[/quote]If you walk after the flesh you aren’t walking in the spirit after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.If you walk after the flesh you mind the thing of the flesh, and you are not walking in the spirit after Spirit minding the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.The carnal mind is not spiritual.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.That which is born of the Devil is not spirit.

3...their eyes were opened when Adam ate the fruit.

Their eyes were opened when they ate the forbidden fruit.

 

[Noose]

Do you have scripture?

John 8:44You belong to your father, the devil,and you want to carry out his desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, refusing to uphold the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, because he is a liar and thefatherof lies.

Is satan a spirit? If God is the spirit of truth then satan is obviously the spirit of lies and the spirit of lie is what we call sin which is death eternal.

Eve wasn’t mindless before the serpent tempted her.
When God breathed into Adam he became a living soul, he didn’t become a spirit. Yet he had his mind.

The words of Jesus are spirit and life.

The words of the Devil are neither spirit, nor life.

True, the word of God is life, it therefore automatically follows that the word of satan is death.
Did Eve have a mind? Yes she did. The spirit of God is life, yet she did not have the knowledge of right or wrong just like animals are. If she had the knowledge of right or wrong, she definately would not have the spirit of God otherwise she would become like God - remember God guarding the tree of life so that they (Adam & Eve) may not eat and become God themselves?

Psalms 104:29When you hide your face,they are terrified;when you take away their breath,they die and return to the dust.30When you send your Spirit,they are created,and you renew the face of the ground.

b]Romans 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

If you walk after the flesh you aren’t walking in the spirit after the Spirit.
5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.If you walk after the flesh you mind the thing of the flesh, and you are not walking in the spirit after Spirit minding the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.The carnal mind is not spiritual.

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.That which is born of the Devil is not spirit.

Their eyes were opened when they ate the forbidden fruit.[/QUOTE]

Eve ate first and her eyes were not opened until Adam ate. I don't know why we have to argue about this:

Gen 3: 6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves.

 

[Magenta]

1. God does not punish anyone for the sins of another.This means any church that preaches all are born with "the sin of Adam" upon them, is preaching a falsehood... because sin seperate us from God... and that "inherited" separation is a type of punishment.

Being born of Adam, or into the sin of Adam, is to be born of the flesh, which is at enmity with God. The flesh counts for nothing. One must be born again of the Holy Spirit of God to attain to life ever after. All others pass into the second death; teaching such is not a falsehood.