Was the first epistle of John written to believers?

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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,342
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#1
There are many false teachers today vehemently claiming that the first epistle of John was written either to Gnostics or to unbelievers, and therefore Christians may disregard the instructions given therein, particularly as regards sin in the believer’s life.

But an honest reading of this epistle with the help of the Holy Spirit will tell any discerning Christian that this epistle was written to believers, not unbelievers or heretics. Indeed none of the epistles are written to anyone other than believers.

1. Can unbelievers have fellowship with believers or with God? Absolutely not.
Yet the apostle John says that he has written this epistle so that we can have fellowship with him, and that our fellowship is with the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit (not mentioned but understood):

That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
.. If we say that we have fellowship with him [God], and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
(1 Jn 1:3,6,7).

2. Can unbelievers have the fullness of the joy of the Lord? Absolutely not.
Yet the apostle John says that he has written this so that our joy may be full.

And these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full.
(1 Jn 1:4)

3. Are unbelievers ever called “little children”? Absolutely not.
Yet the apostle John addresses his readers as his little children, speaking on behalf of God and himself.

My little children
, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
(1 Jn 2:1)

4. Does the apostle contrast believers (to whom he is writing) with the world of unbelievers? Absolutely

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. (1 Jn 2:2)

5. Do the apostles always address believers as brethren? Absolutely

Brethren, I write no new commandment unto you, but an old commandment which ye had from the beginning. The old commandment is the word which ye have heard from the beginning. (1 Jn 2:7)

6. Can unbelievers have an “unction” (anointing) from the Holy Spirit? Absolutely not.
Yet John says that his readers have an unction from “the Holy One”.

But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things... But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.(1 Jn 2:20,27)

7. Are unbelievers ever called “sons of God”? Absolutely not.
Yet the apostle John addressed his reader as “sons of God” (including himself).

Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. (1 Jn 3:1)

8. Does the world hate believers or unbelievers? Believers

Marvel not, my brethren, if the world hate you.(1 Jn 3:13)

9. Do unbelievers lay down their lives for Christian brethren? Absolutely not.
Yet the apostle John says that we ought to lay our lives down for the brethren.

Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. (1 Jn 3:16)

10. Does the Holy Spirit indwell unbelievers? Absolutely not.
Yet the apostle John tells his readers that the indwelling Holy Spirit within them is greater than Satan (the one who is in the world).

Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
(1 Jn 4:4).
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#2
1 John was written about gnostic teachings, not to them.
 

Johnny_B

Senior Member
Mar 18, 2017
1,954
64
48
#3

The apostle John wrote it, how do you account for the use of, "we, our, they and us"?

I John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

I John 4:19
We love Him because He first loved us.

When you consider Romans 8:7-8
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9
But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

How can soneone love God and be His enemy and why would the Spirit have both John and Paul use, us, we, ours, they, them and not follow the rule of grammer, us, we ours identifacation or they, them seperation?

Please explain how the rule of grammer would cause us, we and ours to be mean sepertion of identification? That will help me understand.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#4
Joseph Prince invented the idea that 1 John 1:9 was written to unbelievers, because without it his whole doctrine falls apart.

It's obvious that 'we' in 1 John refers to the apostles who actually heard, saw and touched Jesus.

​What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and our hands have touched, concerning the word of life— and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and announce to you the eternal life which was with the Father and was revealed to uswhat we have seen and heard, we announce to you also, in order that you also may have fellowship with us, and indeed our fellowship [is] with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ. 1 John 1:1-3

Those addressed as 'you' were other believers who were not personal witnesses of Christ. They would have been like those mentioned in the book of Hebrews.

How will we escape [if we] neglect so great a salvation which had [its] beginning [when it] was spoken through the Lord [and] was confirmed to us by those who heard, Hebrews 2:3

This is verified by John's expression of the hope that the apostles' joy may be full (1 John 1:4), not the joy of the believers to whom he wrote. This undoubtedly refers to the apostles' joy of seeing their spiritual children, those whom they had begotten in the faith, grow into maturity, because it mirrors a similar statement made by Paul that expresses a similar hope of joy.

And these [things] we write, in order that our joy may be complete. 1 John 1:4

Complete my joy, so that you are in agreement, having the same love, united in spirit, having one purpose. Philippians 2:2

John then tells his spiritual children who didn't know Christ personally spiritual principles and truths that the apostles learned firsthand from Christ.
And this is the message which we have heard from him and announce to you, that God is light and there [is] no darkness in him at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him and walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we do not have sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, so that he will forgive us [our] sins and will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. 1 John 1:5-10

Then John makes clear who is addressed as 'you' in his letter by calling them his spiritual children in the faith.
​​
My little children, I am writing these [things] to you in order that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous [one], 1 John 2:1
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#5
well, I mean if you consider many would like to throw out Jesus' teachings, it follows that anything that does not agree with their new revelations, would be terribly offended at correction or the thought they might ever have to ask anyone, including God for forgiveness for any reason

the threads around here lately seem to promote unsound doctrine (more than usual) and create absurd conclusions

we have seen lately, that water baptism is of the devil, you never have to ask for forgiveness or consider any sin, everyone is healed all the time and if you are not healed, it is your own fault (that's an old one but enjoying a revival), Jesus never got off the cross and we must help him carry it as He is still attached, a slew of other interpretations and a few people who have finally admitted they do not believe in the Trinity and it is demonic also.

and of course this post becomes a joke as any others like it, because, you know, we should be living in the 1500's and flagellating ourselves and doing penance because we don't understand God's free gift that cost Him everything

so glad I am alive to see this falling away. not.
 
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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,342
12,870
113
#6
The apostle John wrote it, how do you account for the use of, "we, our, they and us"?

It is really quite simple. The context determines who is being spoken about and who is being addressed.
I John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

So here is the context: Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

The Gnostics were rejecting the truth that the Lord Jesus Christ was fully God and fully sinless Man at one and the same time. The second epistle of John addressed this and calls them "antichrists" (against Christ). Thus because these false brethren could not abide the true doctrine of Christ, they left the church or churches where the truth was proclaimed. They were not really saved (and anyone who rejects the Deity of Christ cannot be saved). So they went out from the assemblies of true Christians because they were false professors and would not accept the truth. That would be like someone who has been influenced by the JWs, is not really saved, and then leaves a Bible-believing church.

I John 4:19
We love Him because He first loved us.

Here John includes himself with all believers.
When you consider Romans 8:7-8
Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.

How can someone love God and be His enemy and why would the Spirit have both John and Paul use, us, we, ours, they, them and not follow the rule of grammar, us, we ours identification or they, them separation?

The "carnal mind" is the same as "the flesh" and the flesh is at war with the Spirit. So it is the old sinful nature that is at enmity with God, hence it must be crucified or mortified. Galatians 5 explains the conflict and how to walk in the Spirit. It is not so much a matter of grammar as of discernment.
 
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Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,342
12,870
113
#7
Joseph Prince invented the idea that 1 John 1:9 was written to unbelievers, because without it his whole doctrine falls apart.
Exactly. So this is a good example of wresting or twisting the Scriptures to suit one's own false theology.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,342
12,870
113
#8
...the threads around here lately seem to promote unsound doctrine (more than usual) and create absurd conclusions...
You are perfectly correct, and there is far too much of that as compared to sound Bible doctrine. It looks like there has been a serious spike in false teachers and false teachings lately.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#9
You are perfectly correct, and there is far too much of that as compared to sound Bible doctrine. It looks like there has been a serious spike in false teachers and false teachings lately.
it's not just that

I don't agree with you on everything for example, which you probably know haha

but it is the vitriol and the determination, it seems, to pound folks into the ground, slap a tombstone on 'em and forget the flowers

look, I wrote a number of times in the 'can women preach' thread and I don't care for a woman pastor myself but I don't think scripture teaches we never say a thing, obviously not as there are NT examples that speak to that

I'm mentioning it here, because that thread has turned into a dog fight with ripping and tearing and some women determined to bury certain men and I don't agree at all with how a couple of the women are presenting themselves nor the men either but it really sticks and stinks IMO and I don't know why it is allowed to get that bad

forget discussion. it's a hooligan party on a bad day at the soccer game in Greece

people are just screaming at each other and digging for more ammo with no thought to how they sound

so sorry to stick that in here, but I would not dare stick it where it needs to go LOL!

I see so much of that 'new teaching' emerging here even in people I could have sworn did not believe it. a few posts in particular written by one person were so confused I was like 'whaaa??' I don't think they see it and they used to make sense

I puzzle over why threads like that are just allowed to continue or why people who come on like gang busters and are obviously not 'ok' between the ears, are allowed to spew all over the place. guess a mod can correct me on that one but I'm not discussing banned members or anyone identifiable IMO

people assume that folks posting are ok but maybe just have a different take. that would be unusual. Christian forums do attract some real nuts and trying to interact with them identifies them as such.

just thinking about some of this

sigh
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#10
Can someone show me where anyone said “the book”of 1john was written to non believers?

i think we are back to our wars, staiting people are saying things they never teally said, i hears it was written about a oarticular group, but never adressed to them thats a huge difference
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#11
Can someone show me where anyone said “the book”of 1john was written to non believers?

i think we are back to our wars, staiting people are saying things they never teally said, i hears it was written about a oarticular group, but never adressed to them thats a huge difference
it's just you. it's your war

you seem to have a gift for reading into what someone says. this is just a general thread with no one trying to pound someone else into the ground with their huge family edition Bible with the gold leaf edges

but I've seen folks say exactly that and unlike Comey, I don't keep notes on every conversation I have here or elsewhere...but I do have a pretty good memory

this causes confusion and the type of comment you just made

and btw, what group? was there a group mentioned as you say? I didn't see one so please do point it out

nope...not getting into it with you again, but you misinterpret something fierce at times
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#13
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

haha

cute!

but a good number of people have said it. you've done it now tho....
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,342
12,870
113
#14
Can someone show me where anyone said “the book”of 1john was written to non believers?
I am not going to direct Christians to the false teachings of Joseph Prince and Paul Ellis (and perhaps many others) but you can check them out for yourself on the Internet and confirm that both these men teach that 1 John was written to unbelievers and heretics (Gnostics). Because they have a warped theology they twist the Scriptures to suit themselves.
 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#16



and with that

we have the dead end of this thread
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#17
it's just you. it's your war

you seem to have a gift for reading into what someone says. this is just a general thread with no one trying to pound someone else into the ground with their huge family edition Bible with the gold leaf edges

but I've seen folks say exactly that and unlike Comey, I don't keep notes on every conversation I have here or elsewhere...but I do have a pretty good memory

this causes confusion and the type of comment you just made

and btw, what group? was there a group mentioned as you say? I didn't see one so please do point it out

nope...not getting into it with you again, but you misinterpret something fierce at times
whatever, your right, no one has fastly accused people and no one went to war against hypergrace, or other peopl, but believe what you want. Someone did prove me wrong in this thread and i admitted it so so much for your hissy fit.

 
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7seasrekeyed

Guest
#18
whatever, your right, no one has fastly accused people and no one went to war against hypergrace, or other peopl, but believe what you want. Someone did prove me wrong in this thread and i admitted it so so much for your hissy fit.


and we are off

you never fail to be yourself :rolleyes:

your turn

I'm opting out
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#19
I am not going to direct Christians to the false teachings of Joseph Prince and Paul Ellis (and perhaps many others) but you can check them out for yourself on the Internet and confirm that both these men teach that 1 John was written to unbelievers and heretics (Gnostics). Because they have a warped theology they twist the Scriptures to suit themselves.

Well there we have it, and i was right, another hypergrace attack thread, funny thing is, budman does not follow those people.

Oh and i did go check those people out, the GOSPEL they taught is not what you people claim it is. You want to gomwith the others and start another war, go for it, most whomstarted the last war are gone, maybe you will join them
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#20
and we are off

you never fail to be yourself :rolleyes:

your turn

I'm opting out

Please do, and read the last post about hypergrqce and the people, i was correct to begin with.