GOD'S DISCIPLINE ISN'T PUNISHEMENT FOR PAST SINS...

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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
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Let me hear of your unfailing love each morning, for I am trusting you. Show me where to walk, for I give myself to you. Psalm 143:8
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[TD="class: yiv7111263287x_mobile-hidden, align: center"]Let me hear of your unfailing love each morning, for I am trusting you. Show me where to walk, for I give myself to you. Psalm 143:8
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God’s discipline isn’t PUNISHMENT for past sins!


The truth about “The chastening of the Lord” is probably the most confusing subject in the church world today. It has kept many believers in fear of something that is intended to bring peace to their lives. We should never be afraid of the Lord’s chastening. Rather, we should invite it into our lives and open our hearts to it. Why? It will help us experience the peace of God.


This short teaching is intended to clear up any misunderstanding or confusion you may have about what “chastening” really is.


God’s discipline isn’t punishment for past sins. It is godly instruction, insight, and wisdom for the future. You see, if God punishes you for past sins, He would have to apologize to Jesus who took our punishment for all sins. Besides, how can God punish you for past sins when He gave you His word, “He would never remember your sins again"? (Hebrews 12:8).


“For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth” (Hebrews 12:6).


If you study the origins of the word “chasten,” you will understand that the Greek word from which it is derived simply means “to train up as a child.” However, over time, translators and some early church fathers reinterpreted the meaning of the word to imply punishment.


Since Jesus showed us the character of His Father, we can easily see that Jesus “chastened” His disciples, but He didn’t punish them. For example, when they passed through Samaria, the Samaritans wouldn’t let Jesus and His disciples spend the night. The disciples were angry about this and asked Jesus if they should call fire down from heaven upon the Samaritans for their egregious insult to them. Jesus responded by correcting – aka chastening them – with truth. He said, “You don’t know what spirit you are of. I didn’t come to destroy men’s lives but to save them.”


Let’s read the following verses that describe chastening and show its effects and results.


“If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons” (Hebrews 12:7-8).


God corrects us because He is our Father, and we are His children. A loving father has a responsibility to train and correct His children. Needless to say, this correction isn’t always pleasant. In fact, at times it can create inner turmoil as we make the necessary adjustments to our thoughts and belief systems.


This is what the word “scourging” in verse 6 refers to. No doubt, reevaluating what you once believed or thought to be true can be traumatic. And so, I am sure the disciples were conflicted when Jesus rebuked them for wanting to call fire down to destroy the Samaritans. He pointed out their hearts weren’t seeing things as they should. Jesus also explained to them His purpose wasn’t to destroy people’s lives; it was to save them.


The disciples’ views and beliefs did not align with Jesus’. They believed it was OK to call down judgment if people didn’t do what was expected of them. But Jesus chastened/corrected them for believing what they did. Why? Jesus knew that in the future, a different type of fire would sweep across Samaria saving and delivering the entire city (Acts 8:14-17).
If Jesus didn’t correct the disciples about their wrong views and beliefs, they couldn’t have been used mightily in Samaria.


Let’s keep following this insight into chastening, which the author of Hebrews is helping believers understand.


Furthermore, we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless, afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby (Hebrews 12:9-11).


A comparison is made in the preceding verses between our natural fathers whom we honor and our heavenly Father whose corrections lead us to profitable, fruitful lives where we experience God’s holiness and His peace.


Clearly, the discipline of God isn’t punishment but godly instruction and wisdom for your future. Jesus’ disciples experienced His chastening for their wrong views. They had to realize that their beliefs and purpose were out of sync with what Jesus believed and His purpose. Later, we see the fruit of peace fills the hearts of His disciples as they joyfully went to the same Samaritans they previously wanted to destroy.


We should all crave God’s discipline and never be afraid of it. It will always keep our hearts in peace and produce the fruits of righteousness.


​Devotional by Ed and Laurie Elliot

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lastofall

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2014
609
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#2
[for me anyway] God's purpose for disciplining us is to keep us from being condemned with the world, which works are evil.

"For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world." (1 Corinthians 11:31-32)

"The world cannot hate you; but me it hateth, because I testify of it, that the works thereof are evil." (John 7:7)
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,195
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#5
To the title of the op, all I can comment is, Absolutely!
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
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#6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
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#7
That's Andrew Farley. He has really, really good series on Romans, Hebrews, and a bunch of other epistles
[h=2]Beware of Hyper-Grace: Andrew Farley and Jeremy White[/h]
https://standforthefaith.com/2017/09/21/beware-of-hyper-grace-andrew-farely-and-jeremy-white/

Continuing in this look at “Hyper grace”, let’s consider two pastors and writers that perpetuate the hyper-grace view similar to Joseph Prince. These guys may not be quite as well-known but their teaching has influenced many believers. Andrew Farley is the writer of the book “The Naked Gospel” and Jeremy White has written the book “The Gospel Uncut: Learning to Rest in the Grace of God”. Both men espouse very close to the same views regarding this topic.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
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#8
Aw, thank you.
 

JGIG

Senior Member
Aug 2, 2013
2,295
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#10

"I bring these two up specifically as a warning for those that may be inclined to take teaching from them. Their message is mixed and we should know what happens when one mixes what sounds like grace with performance." (from the article you linked to)


You are kidding, right? Farley is the antithesis of mixing 'what sounds like grace with performance'!

That article is a bundle of contradictory statements and a completely false representation of much of what Farley teaches. I'm not as familiar with Jeremy White, but based on what the author says about Farley, I'm confident that he's equally misrepresented White.

Go to the source, Nehemiah. You might be pleasantly surprised at what you hear. I highly recommend Farley's series on the letter to the Romans. So Christ centered!


"There is more than enough here to recommend marking and avoiding these teachers and don’t stand for anyone recommending them to you." (from the article you linked to)


Sigh. Nothing like 'Christian' censorship.

He does say one thing I agree with in his article on Paul Washer:

"God has called all men to believe the gospel. He desires that all men repent (change their mind) and trust Christ alone to save. "


Uh oh . . . . ;)


-JGIG
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#11
"I bring these two up specifically as a warning for those that may be inclined to take teaching from them. Their message is mixed and we should know what happens when one mixes what sounds like grace with performance." (from the article you linked to)


You are kidding, right? Farley is the antithesis of mixing 'what sounds like grace with performance'!

That article is a bundle of contradictory statements and a completely false representation of much of what Farley teaches. I'm not as familiar with Jeremy White, but based on what the author says about Farley, I'm confident that he's equally misrepresented White.

Go to the source, Nehemiah. You might be pleasantly surprised at what you hear. I highly recommend Farley's series on the letter to the Romans. So Christ centered!

"There is more than enough here to recommend marking and avoiding these teachers and don’t stand for anyone recommending them to you." (from the article you linked to)


Sigh. Nothing like 'Christian' censorship.

He does say one thing I agree with in his article on Paul Washer:
"God has called all men to believe the gospel. He desires that all men repent (change their mind) and trust Christ alone to save. "


Uh oh . . . . ;)


-JGIG

JGIG....That is an accurate way of putting what Nehemiah is doing... CHRISTIAN CENSORSHIP. No ONE Christian teacher or preacher is going to teach or preach everything we already know. And not all Christians agree on every single topic from A-Z

But what we all do believe are the foundational truths of the Christian faith and I think that needs to be posted again especially for those who want to censor anyone and everyone who is not like them.

WE BELIEVE


  • In one God, who exists in three Persons—the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. He is loving, holy and just.
  • That the Bible is God’s Word. It is inspired and accurate. It is our perfect guide in all matters of life.
  • That sin has separated us all from God, and that only through Jesus Christ can we be reconciled to God.
  • That Jesus Christ is both God and Man. He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He led a sinless life, took all our sins upon Himself, died and rose again. Today, He is seated at the right hand of the Father as our High Priest and Mediator.
  • That salvation is God’s gift to us. It is available to anyone who confesses the Lord Jesus with their mouth and believes that God has raised Him from death to life.
  • That water baptism is a symbol of the cleansing power of God and a testimony of our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.
  • That the Holy Spirit is our Comforter. He guides us in all areas of our lives. He also blesses us with spiritual gifts and empowers us to yield the fruit of the Spirit.
  • That the Holy Communion is a celebration of Jesus’ death and our remembrance of Him.
  • That God wants to transform, heal, and provide for us, so that we can live blessed and victorious lives that will impact and help others.
  • That we are called to preach the gospel to all nations.
  • That our Lord Jesus Christ is coming back again just as He promised.







 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,195
6,508
113
#12
Our Father teaches us most in disciplining us. When I have suffered a loss or pain, I thank Him for it, offering whatever He may require of me also, though when it is really bad I do confess to Him my pain or streess. He always comes through for me with a teaching or a revelation.

I am blessed to be my age, but I can say since hitting 70, every time I go to the doctor, it is soething else, and I thank Him for it. Each change in the physical body now is a step closer to the Kingdom, the deteriorating cervicals, the blindness, the newly formed limp, the sother bones wonking out.......I thank God for each and all. It is more difficult now when I see young peole who suffer..........I hate that.

So we pray, and ask for their help and miracles for them. God knows I have experience plenty in my walk in Jesus, so now I am starting to put on my brakes to see Him one day, with you all of course......

God's discipline is alway good. As it is written, "A man who does not discipline his child, hates his child." When you are disciplined by our Father shout halleluhay...........He loves us.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,167
12,763
113
#13
Go to the source, Nehemiah. You might be pleasantly surprised at what you hear.
I don't believe Farley being misrepresented, and I do believe he is another Hyper-Grace preacher from his own lips:

"Christians should ask God to forgive and cleanse them when they sin." False, says Farley. On pages 149 and following, he claims that 1 John 1:9 is a salvation verse, and does not apply to believers. On page 160 he claims that no Christian need ever pray, "forgive us our trespasses," because Jesus' model prayer is "an Old Covenant prayer taught to Jews before once-for-all forgiveness was accomplished." Farley ignores the fact that First John chapter one is addressed to believers in Christ, not unbelievers, and he frequently confuses the covenants.

This is a quotation from "The Naked Gospel" by Farley, and his teaching is examined here:
http://www.teachingtheword.org/apps/articles/?articleid=64852&view=post&blogid=5445

I have already posted a thread on CC on why we can know that the first epistle of John is for believers.

 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
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#14
And all that is fine Nehemiah but many Christians read 1 John 1:9 differently than you do. That is not a sin nor is it heresy as you keep trying to make it. Many Christians see 1 John 1:9 differently than we once did and that is our choice. Just as it is your choice to disagree. Thus... we agree to disagree. We don't call each other names or fight one another. That is not from the Holy Spirit nor does it show out the fruit of the Spirit in us as Christians.

Gal.5


[SUP]13 [/SUP]For you, brethren, were [indeed] called to freedom; only [do not let your] freedom be an incentive to your flesh and an opportunity or excuse [for [SUP][d][/SUP]selfishness], but through love you should serve one another.
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14 [/SUP]For the whole Law [concerning human relationships] is [SUP][e][/SUP]complied with in the one precept, You shall love your neighbor as [you do] yourself.
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15 [/SUP]But if you bite and devour one another [in partisan strife], be careful that you [and your whole fellowship] are not consumed by one another.
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16 [/SUP]But I say, walk and live [habitually] in the [Holy] Spirit [responsive to and controlled and guided by the Spirit]; then you will certainly not gratify the cravings and desires of the flesh (of human nature without God).
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17 [/SUP]For the desires of the flesh are opposed to the [Holy] Spirit, and the [desires of the] Spirit are opposed to the flesh (godless human nature); for these are antagonistic to each other [continually withstanding and in conflict with each other], so that you are not free but are prevented from doing what you desire to do.
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18 [/SUP]But if you are guided (led) by the [Holy] Spirit, you are not subject to the Law.
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19 [/SUP]Now the doings (practices) of the flesh are clear (obvious): they are immorality, impurity, indecency,
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20 [/SUP]Idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger (ill temper), selfishness, divisions (dissensions), party spirit (factions, sects with peculiar opinions, heresies),
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21 [/SUP]Envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you beforehand, just as I did previously, that those who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
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22 [/SUP]But the fruit of the [Holy] Spirit [the work which His presence within accomplishes] is love, joy (gladness), peace, patience (an even temper, forbearance), kindness, goodness (benevolence), faithfulness,
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23 [/SUP]Gentleness (meekness, humility), self-control (self-restraint, continence). Against such things there is no law [[SUP][f][/SUP]that can bring a charge].
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24 [/SUP]And those who belong to Christ Jesus (the Messiah) have crucified the flesh (the godless human nature) with its passions and appetites and desires.

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25 [/SUP]If we live by the [Holy] Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit. [If by the Holy Spirit [SUP][g][/SUP]we have our life in God, let us go forward [SUP][h][/SUP]walking in line, our conduct controlled by the Spirit.]
[SUP]

26 [/SUP]Let us not become vainglorious and self-conceited, competitive and challenging and provoking and irritating to one another, envying and being jealous of one another.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
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#15
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[TD="class: yiv7396638703mcnTextContent, align: center"]Peter said to Him, “You shall never wash my feet!” Jesus answered him, “If I do not wash you, you have no part with Me.”
John 13:8[/TD]
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[TD="class: yiv7396638703mcnTextContent"][h=2]- APRIL 24 -
LET JESUS WASH YOUR FEET[/h][HR][/HR]
Can you imagine the Lord wanting to wash your feet? Peter could not. His shocked reaction—“Lord, how can you wash my feet!”—would probably be ours too.

I want you to notice what the Lord said to him: “Peter, if I don’t wash your feet, you have no part with Me.” What the Lord was actually saying to Peter was, “Peter, you cannot flow together with Me, you cannot walk together with Me in ministry, in service and in effectiveness, if you don’t let Me wash your feet.” So Peter said, “Lord, [wash] not my feet only, but also my hands and my head!” (John 13:9)

But Jesus answered him saying, “He who is bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean…” (John 13:10)

Once we have accepted Christ as our Lord and Savior, we are bathed all over, and cleansed by His blood once and for all eternity! His blood has perfected us forever (Hebrews 10:14), and we only need to wash our feet because we walk in the world and our feet pick up dust and dirt, causing us to stumble.

So how is Jesus washing our feet today? Ephesians 5:25–26 tells us that “Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the Word”.

We, the church, are cleansed with the washing of water by the Word. The more we come under anointed teaching that unveils Christ through the Word, the more the cleansing goes on. And as our feet are washed, instead of stumbling, we will be walking and even running!

Today, though high and lifted up in heaven, Jesus is dressed in a robe with a golden girdle around his chest. (Revelation 1:13) Like a servant who uses his girdle as a towel to serve, Jesus wants us to sit down and let Him serve us—by washing our feet with a deeper revelation of Himself through His Word. Beloved, this is what gives us victory in our daily walk! ​ Destined To Reign Devotional for 4/24




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joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#16
The most important and first thing to do every day is go to the Word of God each day and many times during the day whether it be reading it or hearing it preached and taught.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,195
6,508
113
#17
For everything good we look to Him........it is a constant teaching that will never end, amen.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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#18
Farley also teaches that the lord's prayer is not for NT Christians. He calls it an old covenant prayer. That's an abomination.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#19
Farley also teaches that the lord's prayer is not for NT Christians. He calls it an old covenant prayer. That's an abomination.


It's about POST CROSS.
"And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who tresspass against us..." That was under the old covenant before the CROSS.

Today in the new covenant we forgive because HE first forgave us. We love because HE first loved us. Now we know the reason we are forgiven and it is not because of what we do it's because of what JESUS did.

He doesn't take back His forgiveness if we don't forgive someone. That is old covenant....His forgiveness is not contingent/conditional on us but conditional/contingent on JESUS. WHO IS A SURE FOUNDATION.

This is the NEW COVENANT.
 
Sep 4, 2012
14,424
689
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#20
It's about POST CROSS.
"And forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who tresspass against us..." That was under the old covenant before the CROSS.

Today in the new covenant we forgive because HE first forgave us. We love because HE first loved us. Now we know the reason we are forgiven and it is not because of what we do it's because of what JESUS did.

He doesn't take back His forgiveness if we don't forgive someone. That is old covenant....His forgiveness is not contingent/conditional on us but conditional/contingent on JESUS. WHO IS A SURE FOUNDATION.

This is the NEW COVENANT.
This is simply a justification of Farley's heresy. The teaching that some of Christ's words can be ignored is an abomination.