Fior fghters with God

[Chavah]

Hello fellow fighters .)

My question is on the bottom, so feel free to skip following intro... but it might help you to get some inside

So, some of us do argue and fight with God. Some of us don't.
I do. A lot.
We are startled about what is happening, either in our little world, or even big one, how our life is turning out, or why is that or this... and we fight with God on what we want from Him or what He wants from us .. etc etc

And we ask questions. Sometimes we cry out to God. Over and over.
And we don't get any answers, or we do, just not able to understand them. Or not willing to understand them. Or accept them. I personally believe that God is God and therefore is not compulsory to answer. But from Bible it seems that He likes to... answer... and fight back.

I used to feel very guilty about arguing and fighting with God. Still do a bit.
I took it as my personal failure.Failure of trust and faith.

Then I started to sympathize more and more with Job and Jacob.
They were close to God and they were fighters.

When Jacob fought with ... mmmm .. his opponent (God? Jesus? angel?) whomever it was, he got a new name He who fights (struggles) with God. His old name was grabber or in some translation deceiver.

So, we know that he fought for blessing.
And in the morning he received it.
But he also received a blow to his hip that disabled him with a limp for the rest of his life.

My question is... do you think, that there is any spiritual meaning for this. For this second "gift".
In other way, can I be crippled (in spiritual sense of meaning) by arguing and fighting with God.
Also question for long term fighters, did you noticed any crippling changes bcs of this. If so, what they are.

 

[blue_ladybug]

What is "fior"?

 

[Chavah]

What is "fior"?

ups sorry for typo

 

[graceNpeace]

ups sorry for typo

Can you actually tell us what the title is supposed to mean?
I read the post but I am still mystified...

 

[Chavah]

Can you actually tell us what the title is supposed to mean?
I read the post but I am still mystified...

Sure sir, this thread is for those who fight with God.. like Jacob and Job did.
So title is "For fighters with God"

And sorry for confusions ..

 

[notuptome]

Our old nature or old man will always strive against God. Only when the old man is brought under subjection do we obtain the victory.

God crippled Jacob to make him dependent on God. God will do the same to us if we resist being conformed to the image of His Son Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Chester]

It is difficult to give much of an answer with not knowing the full story of why you ask what you do: but I will just make a few observations:

(1) You do not need to be afraid that any of your "fighting" with God will make him mad at you. He can easily handle whatever anger or frustration you throw at him. He is big enough and "man enough" to handle it!!

(2) I am guessing that you have or are experiencing some severe trials.

(3) Keep trusting in God and holding on and as Jacob came through, so will you!

God bless you in the journey,
Chester

 

[Depleted]

Hello fellow fighters .)

My question is on the bottom, so feel free to skip following intro... but it might help you to get some inside

So, some of us do argue and fight with God. Some of us don't.
I do. A lot.
We are startled about what is happening, either in our little world, or even big one, how our life is turning out, or why is that or this... and we fight with God on what we want from Him or what He wants from us .. etc etc

And we ask questions. Sometimes we cry out to God. Over and over.
And we don't get any answers, or we do, just not able to understand them. Or not willing to understand them. Or accept them. I personally believe that God is God and therefore is not compulsory to answer. But from Bible it seems that He likes to... answer... and fight back.

I used to feel very guilty about arguing and fighting with God. Still do a bit.
I took it as my personal failure.Failure of trust and faith.

Then I started to sympathize more and more with Job and Jacob.
They were close to God and they were fighters.

When Jacob fought with ... mmmm .. his opponent (God? Jesus? angel?) whomever it was, he got a new name He who fights (struggles) with God. His old name was grabber or in some translation deceiver.

So, we know that he fought for blessing.
And in the morning he received it.
But he also received a blow to his hip that disabled him with a limp for the rest of his life.

My question is... do you think, that there is any spiritual meaning for this. For this second "gift".
In other way, can I be crippled (in spiritual sense of meaning) by arguing and fighting with God.
Also question for long term fighters, did you noticed any crippling changes bcs of this. If so, what they are.

Just so you know, there was no way of skipping to the question without reading the beginning. (I know. I'm lazy, so I tried, and it didn't work. lol) Had to read the rest to get the questions.

I am the long-term fighter. And yes, it crippled me. I was Jonah for the first 30 years of my walk with the Lord. Didn't necessarily want to do what he wanted me to do, so he tended to deliver me to my destination by fish belly, instead of ship. James Boise did a great teaching on Jonah. (Would post it, but read it in a book.) He researched the topic enough to find out people can, and have lived inside a fish even in modern times for 1-2 days. (Once in a whale and once in a fish.) Digestive juices bleach, so by the time Jonah scrambled onto the land, he was as white as a sheet, his hair looked dreadful, and he was cramped in the stomach for three days, so had to be sore.

Now imagine someone looking like that prophesying that if you don't change your ways your city will be destroyed. Had to be effective.

And it was.

But when he was done, he pouted in the nearby desert, and the Lord grew a weed around him to shelter him. God let him pout. And when God was done giving him that grace, the weed died.

I'm Jonah. I kept pouting.

And it wasn't just one time. It was often. I guesstimate 7 years of pouting if I put all that time together. And even more years of not getting to what the Lord wanted me to do.

So how was I crippled? I've had 46 years of my life with the Lord but have the growth of someone who has only been in the Lord for a couple of decades. I retarded. I didn't grow like I could have, and now I regret that.

An old friend of mine was beamed in the head with a baseball when he was 10 years old. That beamed head stopped the left half of his body from growing. Imagine what happens if you're a ten year old boy and half your body stops growing. The other half did grow. And because of that he was hunchbacked, needed corrective shoes and a leg brace for the rest of his life. I am him, spiritually, except it wasn't a baseball. It was my own stupidity.

Something interesting about Jacob, the angel fighter. (Yeah, also not sure if that was an angel or the Lord himself.) Read the rest of his story. That was also the last time he argued with God! I think there is a lesson to learn in that.

My new goal is to go where the Lord wants me to go by ship, instead of fish stomach. Had enough fish stomach to last a lifetime, and he's going to take me where I don't want to go anyway... because he loves me.

And, understand, the intent in not to argue. Doesn't mean I'm not going to tell the Lord I don't like this, when I really don't like this. I've only grown enough to not argue. I'm still going to grumble. lol

 

[Chavah]

God crippled Jacob to make him dependent on God. God will do the same to us if we resist being conformed to the image of His Son Jesus.

Hmm, I surely don't want to be neither crippled nor resistant to His work on me.
Thank you for your input, sir

 

[Chavah]

(1) You do not need to be afraid that any of your "fighting" with God will make him mad at you. He can easily handle whatever anger or frustration you throw at him. He is big enough and "man enough" to handle it!!

Yes! I have noticed, that His mercy somehow always overcome my outburst, frustration and whining... So far He didn't dismiss me

(2) I am guessing that you have or are experiencing some severe trials.

You guessing right there...

(3) Keep trusting in God and holding on and as Jacob came through, so will you!

I am holding on Him as I can and fighting ... Thank you sir and be blessed!

 

[Chavah]

I am the long-term fighter. And yes, it crippled me. I was Jonah for the first 30 years of my walk with the Lord. Didn't necessarily want to do what he wanted me to do, so he tended to deliver me to my destination by fish belly, instead of ship. James Boise did a great teaching on Jonah.

I'm Jonah. I kept pouting.

And it wasn't just one time. It was often. I guesstimate 7 years of pouting if I put all that time together. And even more years of not getting to what the Lord wanted me to do.

So how was I crippled? I've had 46 years of my life with the Lord but have the growth of someone who has only been in the Lord for a couple of decades. I retarded. I didn't grow like I could have, and now I regret that.

I looooove Jonah!!!
Always did... even as a child, I could so much feel with him and identify with way of his logic and thinking... even with his anger...

That being said ... big greetings to you fellow fighter!

You are really the first one in here I can sense that you know very well what I am talking about...
And big thank you for your respond!
It is exactly what I needed to hear (or rather read)..

By the way, you are using quite strong characteristic bout yourself, I must say thou, that what I see is very rare type of brutal straightforward honesty diamond shape... I believe that Lord sees the same and even more...

Be blessed

 

[Shamah]

This is a wonderful question, I was actually thinking about this yesterday.. My thought was to consider the basis or bottom line of "fighting with the Most High" I think it would be not wanting to do what He wants. So then I thought about all the people who did or who did not do His will and what happened.

There are many examples;

Jonah, he tried to flee rather than do Yah’s will, he was swallowed by a great fish and returned to the shore, then he chose to do what Yah told him.

Ballam, he cut some corners and thus did not obey but sought profit, a malak/angel impeded his way.

Moses, he struck the rock twice, he was told to strike it once and then declare it, he was not allowed to enter physical Israyl.

Jezebel, she introduced pagan worship into Israyl, she was devoured by dogs.

Abraham, was told to leave Ur (Babylon) he did, he was blessed greatly.

There are many examples these are but a few, for me it all goes back to the narrow path principle and that YHWH knows best. At times I find myself wanting to to on my own path, I try to remember that His way is what is best for me in the long run especially concerning entering the Kingdom. Hebrews 12:3-17 is a passage that reminds me that if I am His, He wil guide me when I go astray, even with “tough love” but for His correction it is worth it IMO. Just some thoughts, this is an interesting topic I.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 12:3-17, “For consider Him who endured such opposition from sinners against Himself, lest you become weary and faint in your lives."4, You have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin."5, And you have forgotten the appeal which speaks to you as to sons, “My son, do not despise the discipline of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], nor faint when you are reproved by Him,"6, for whom [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]loves, He disciplines, and flogs every son whom He receives.” (Pro 3:11-12) "7, If you endure discipline, Yah is treating you as sons. For what son is there whom a father does not discipline?"8, But if you are without discipline, of which all have become sharers, then you are illegitimate and not sons."9, Moreover, we indeed had fathers of our flesh disciplining us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much rather be subject to the Father of spirits, and live?"10, For they indeed disciplined us for a few days as seemed best to them, but He does it for our profit, so that we might share His apartness."11, And indeed, no discipline seems pleasant at the time, but grievous, but afterward it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it."12, So, strengthen the hands which hang down and the weak knees, Isa 35:3."13, and make straight paths for your feet, lest the lame be turned aside, but instead, to be healed."14, Pursue peace with all, and pursue apartness without which no one shall see the Master."15, See to it that no one falls short of the favor of Yah, that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, by which many become defiled,"16, lest there be anyone who whores, or profane one, like Ěsaw, who for a single meal sold his birthright. 17, For you know that afterward, when he wished to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no place for repentance, though he sought it with tears.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hosea 6:3, “So let us know, let us pursue to know [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]. His going forth is as certain as the morning, and He comes to us like the rain, like the latter rain watering the earth.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 42:2, “My being thirsts for Yah, for the living Strength When shall I enter in to appear before Yah?"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 32:8 “I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go; I will counsel you with my eye upon you”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Proverbs 3:5-7, “Trust in [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding; Know Him in all your ways, And He makes all your paths straight Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]and turn away from evil.”[/FONT]

 

[reneweddaybyday]

When Jacob fought with ... mmmm .. his opponent (God? Jesus? angel?) whomever it was, he got a new name He who fights (struggles) with God. His old name was grabber or in some translation deceiver.

The word "Israel" means God strives.

From Brown-Driver-Briggs: El persisteth, persevereth; or Let El contend.

Strong's defines "Israel" as "From sarah and 'el; he will rule as God"

Strong's Hebrew: 3478. יִשְׂרָאֵל (Yisrael) -- "God strives," another name of Jacob and his desc.


The word "Israel" is made up of the words "El" and "sarah"

"El" = God

"sarah" = persist, persevere [not to be confused with Abraham's wife śā·rāh which means princess]

My question is... do you think, that there is any spiritual meaning for this. For this second "gift".

God humbled Jacob at the time. Was this God's way of sending Jacob a message that he was not to rely on his own strength and scheming? Was it a reminder to Jacob that God will work all things according to His own Counsel and Purpose and He certainly does not need any help from us to bring His objective to pass?

In other way, can I be crippled (in spiritual sense of meaning) by arguing and fighting with God.

Any time we fight against God we cripple ourselves and cannot do those things He desires.

Also question for long term fighters, did you noticed any crippling changes bcs of this. If so, what they are.

All of us are "long term fighters" as none of us are perfect in this lifetime. The questions we should ask ourselves are: "What is the lesson God wants me to learn?" and "what is it going to take for me to learn the lesson?"

God is going to continue to work within us to conform us to the image of His Son. Ultimately, that goal will be achieved and we know that when he shall appear, we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is (1 John 3:2).

 

[Blain]

I looooove Jonah!!!
Always did... even as a child, I could so much feel with him and identify with way of his logic and thinking... even with his anger...

That being said ... big greetings to you fellow fighter!

You are really the first one in here I can sense that you know very well what I am talking about...
And big thank you for your respond!
It is exactly what I needed to hear (or rather read)..

By the way, you are using quite strong characteristic bout yourself, I must say thou, that what I see is very rare type of brutal straightforward honesty diamond shape... I believe that Lord sees the same and even more...

Be blessed

This right here By the way, you are using quite strong characteristic bout yourself, I must say thou, that what I see is very rare type of brutal straightforward honesty diamond shape... I believe that Lord sees the same and even more... I honestly don't think anyone could have described Lynn in better detail than this

 

[Blain]

I love and adore father but I will admit I am sometimes a fighter. I like to be honest with him after all he can read my heart anyways right? There are times when in prayers I become angry with him furious even and I do not hesitate to express it to him, in those moments the rage is short but my heart is truly expressed, in fact sometimes it seems only in my anger do I express myself truly to him at least in certain things. I always apologize to him once I settle down and my initial thought is did I make him angry? should I fear his punishment? but then almost instantly in my minds eye it's as I am looking at me through his eyes and in his eyes he sees a small child throwing a tantrum as little children do but once they have their little fit they are in his arms at peace being looked down upon in endearment and fondness.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Strong's defines "Israel" as "From sarah and 'el; he will rule as God"

This would be more in keeping with the context, and some interpret Israel as Prince with God.

...for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed. (Gen 32:28)

It should be noted that at the time of this encounter it was not Jacob who had a quarrel with God or was resisting God. Rather, the Angel of the LORD (the pre-incarnate Christ) came to Jacob to wrestle with him. It should be evident that had the Angel of the LORD (who is God) chosen to defeat Jacob, he could have laid him flat in a second. Instead God said "Thou hast prevailed". But God allowed Jacob to wrestle with Himself all night to teach him a lesson, and then He put his thigh out of joint. This was similar to Paul's thorn in the flesh.

Every Christian will wrestle with God one time or another, and this is metaphorically wrestling in prayer. There is always a lesson to be learned.

 

[FlSnookman7]

Welcome to CC!

I tend to view it more as fighting myself. I know God's plan is correct even though I may not understand it at the time. My flesh likes to use these times to get me to "rebel". The flesh knows I will "feel" guilty about this and instead of walking in the Spirit I will be stuck walking around in condemnation. For me the more I pray the better I am able to stay focused on who God has made me to be and not go by what I feel. Either way, God knows our hearts and He also knows we stumble and fall but He loves us just the same!

 

[OneFaith]

There's two types of fighting with God. When Jacob wrestled Jesus in the old testament it was a physical represention of how we spiritually wrestle with the Word. Then there's fighting with God the other way. Shortly after Marilyn Monroe stated "I don't need your God!" She died. Jon Lennon spoke out against God- died. Titanic ship builder said even God could not sink his ship- died. Bon Scott from the band AC/DC mocked God- died.

We all have a fight, a spiritual battle. Like the cartoons show an angel on the right shoulder representing your good conscience, and a devil on your left shoulder representing temptation. We wrestle to accept and live by the truth so that we will be blessed by it. But some people fight against God because they don't accept the truth or accept Him.

God always answers His children (yes, no, or wait), but God will not hear the prayer of a sinner.

 

[Chavah]

Hello Shamah, reneweddaybyday, Blain, Nehemiah6, FlSnookman7, OneFaith!

Thank you everybody for your time and input, I appreciate it very much.

Reneweddaybyday thanks for your correction and also Nehemiah6 - you presented quite interesting point of view on Jacob.

Funny, that even after Jacob received blessing and promises from God, at the end of his life when pharaoh asked him about his life he noted that... few and evil have been the days of the years of my life.. (he was then 130 yo)

I guess we expect happiness and success just because we are friends of God, and forgetting that most of God' s men suffered a lot thru their life and even their death was not always something what should one desire.

.. isn't it nice dark ending for this thread ..

Be blessed