Death and Dying, part deux
- Thread starter SovereignGrace
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All those verses show that even an evil spirit is under God's control. Nowhere does it say that it came from Satan. God uses evil ppl sometimes, and an evil spirit in King Saul's instance, to fulfill His purpose. Every time Israel got out of line, look at what happened to them.
You can see this in the NT, too.
In regards to the man of lawlessness...
For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.[2 Thess. 2:10,11] He will send them a deluding influence. Who does He send this to? Those who took pleasure in wickedness. Its God's way of executing judgment upon evil ppl.
So, this is seen not just in the OT, God sending evil ppl/spirit to execute judgment, but also in the NT.
No my Sister, I was not lumping you in with them. My apologies for not making myself clearer in that post.
What I meant was that you, and others, want to focus on God's love. You have such a laser focus on it, you seem to not take into account His other attributes. You have to do more that say "God loves you" at times. Sometimes, you have to be direct and tell ppl that in their current state, they are lost, they are sinners who commit iniquity, and that God hates all those who commit iniquity.
What I meant was that you, and others, want to focus on God's love. You have such a laser focus on it, you seem to not take into account His other attributes. You have to do more that say "God loves you" at times. Sometimes, you have to be direct and tell ppl that in their current state, they are lost, they are sinners who commit iniquity, and that God hates all those who commit iniquity.
Omnipotent means all-powerful, but an all-powerful God also displays His infinite power by having creatures whose every thought and action are NOT controlled robotically. He has full control of His universe, and maintains it through natural laws. He also has full control of His creatures and maintains them through moral and spiritual laws. But He does not need to pre-determine or decree everything which is done by His creatures. That's real control.
I was just reading that other thread! I was sorry it was closed too! I am going back to it to finish the last 2 pages after I eat.
I am really absorbed with trying to figure out why anyone thinks that just because someone knows God will work all things to their good that they then arrive at the conclusion that it means those people think God CAUSES the bad things He will work to their good. I don't understand how they arrive at that conclusion...
I am really absorbed with trying to figure out why anyone thinks that just because someone knows God will work all things to their good that they then arrive at the conclusion that it means those people think God CAUSES the bad things He will work to their good. I don't understand how they arrive at that conclusion...
D
You're a lilac bush!
Now, who does the honus go to on proving that's a lie? Me or you? Any particular reason you should take the responsibility on for why I lied about you? Shouldn't I be the one who needs to prove you're a lilac bush? For that matter, any particular reason "lie" doesn't work there? And, honestly? Trying to explain why you are or are not a lilac bush is pretty self-evident to most people, so why bother saying anything but "Lie!"?
And she gives a whole bunch of blanket accusations, but you're not asking her?
(And, in full disclosure, man! I had a lot of trouble picking an object that I can call you that doesn't have any kind of symbolic meaning to it too. I started with "goat," but being Christians, calling you a goat is particularly disturbing. Went straight to something I love -- chocolate -- and was going to call you a Hershey bar, but.... I'm really shocked how many words we've come to use that are associated with something else too. And, that's why I picked lilac bush. The first thing that doesn't have symbolism already attached to it that hit my brain. lol)
Now, who does the honus go to on proving that's a lie? Me or you? Any particular reason you should take the responsibility on for why I lied about you? Shouldn't I be the one who needs to prove you're a lilac bush? For that matter, any particular reason "lie" doesn't work there? And, honestly? Trying to explain why you are or are not a lilac bush is pretty self-evident to most people, so why bother saying anything but "Lie!"?
And she gives a whole bunch of blanket accusations, but you're not asking her?
(And, in full disclosure, man! I had a lot of trouble picking an object that I can call you that doesn't have any kind of symbolic meaning to it too. I started with "goat," but being Christians, calling you a goat is particularly disturbing. Went straight to something I love -- chocolate -- and was going to call you a Hershey bar, but.... I'm really shocked how many words we've come to use that are associated with something else too. And, that's why I picked lilac bush. The first thing that doesn't have symbolism already attached to it that hit my brain. lol)
God is omnipotent - God does have unlimited power and is able to do anything. BUT God is NOT EVIL . . . God may HATE but he is NOT hate. God is love. That is a characteristic of God, the essence of who God is. You say I only have laser eyes when it comes to "God is love" but the second half of the verse which I have been quoting but goes ignored is just as compelling - and in him is NO darkness at all but yet you are attributing "darkness" to God. That places a contradiction within scripture - one place saying that God uses evil . . . an in another that God has NO darkness in him AT ALL . . . . something's wrong somewhere.
Jesus Christ came to show us the Father - Jesus Christ cast out demons (evil spirits) . . . But then we have God sending evil spirits (demons) to people - which is it either they are cast out or given - or does God give them so he can cast them out?
It wasn't God rendering evil to Joseph and then turning it into good - Joseph's brothers mistreated him and threw him in the pit - God took that "evil" and turned it to good - there we have Romans 8:28. ALL scripture has to be in harmony, i.e. agreement, throughout the Bible.
Yea, look at what happened to Israel every time they got out of line - they reaped what they sowed. God set before them life and death, blessings and cursings . . .If they turned away and were not obedient, and were drawn to other gods and worshiped them, they would be destroyed - by God? NO! You cannot serve two masters for you will either hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. . . . you reap what you sow.
2 Thess. 2 - And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He (Satan) will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. . . . All the way up to verse 11 - talks about how Satan works and how Satan will use all sorts of signs and wonders to promote his lie . . . which seems to be the way the delusion is sent, how the lie is believed therefore bringing condemnation to those who refuse to believe the truth and delight in wickedness - Does the verse say "God"? Yes, it does . . . could it be due to the translators keeping the capital "G" and not placing it in lower case "g"? To say that Almighty God will send them delusion is saying that "G"od sends error to defraud or deceive. Isn't that the same thing as a "lie"?
As I said before it isn't that the laser focus is only on God is love but also that there is NO darkness in him AT ALL.
I agree that when witnessing to people we sometimes have to be direct - God loves even sinners - if it were not so then none of us would be saved because . . . But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. God hates the iniquity committed.
Jesus Christ came to show us the Father - Jesus Christ cast out demons (evil spirits) . . . But then we have God sending evil spirits (demons) to people - which is it either they are cast out or given - or does God give them so he can cast them out?
It wasn't God rendering evil to Joseph and then turning it into good - Joseph's brothers mistreated him and threw him in the pit - God took that "evil" and turned it to good - there we have Romans 8:28. ALL scripture has to be in harmony, i.e. agreement, throughout the Bible.
2 Thess. 2 - And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will overthrow with the breath of his mouth and destroy by the splendor of his coming. The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with how Satan works. He (Satan) will use all sorts of displays of power through signs and wonders that serve the lie, and all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness. . . . All the way up to verse 11 - talks about how Satan works and how Satan will use all sorts of signs and wonders to promote his lie . . . which seems to be the way the delusion is sent, how the lie is believed therefore bringing condemnation to those who refuse to believe the truth and delight in wickedness - Does the verse say "God"? Yes, it does . . . could it be due to the translators keeping the capital "G" and not placing it in lower case "g"? To say that Almighty God will send them delusion is saying that "G"od sends error to defraud or deceive. Isn't that the same thing as a "lie"?
As I said before it isn't that the laser focus is only on God is love but also that there is NO darkness in him AT ALL.
I agree that when witnessing to people we sometimes have to be direct - God loves even sinners - if it were not so then none of us would be saved because . . . But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. God hates the iniquity committed.
Well it sounds to me like you have worked it out, PB...
As to the beginning of your post, I don't see others saying God USES evil...I rather see them saying that He just works it to their good because the light overcomes the darkness.
As concerns trust (faith), if He permits some bad/evil to come into my life, He will work it to my good. He will ultimately turn it to good for me. This can be seen in the great evil done to Christ yet it was worked to your own great good and gain. Yes, God did not do the evil. He did not cause any man to slaughter Christ. But the evil did not prevail and God worked it for good. So even in very great difficulties in our lives, how could we not trust Him to work even them to good? ☺
As to the beginning of your post, I don't see others saying God USES evil...I rather see them saying that He just works it to their good because the light overcomes the darkness.
As concerns trust (faith), if He permits some bad/evil to come into my life, He will work it to my good. He will ultimately turn it to good for me. This can be seen in the great evil done to Christ yet it was worked to your own great good and gain. Yes, God did not do the evil. He did not cause any man to slaughter Christ. But the evil did not prevail and God worked it for good. So even in very great difficulties in our lives, how could we not trust Him to work even them to good? ☺
Yes, I don't think He causes an evil person to do the evil to me. I do believe He permits them to do it to me. Otherwise, they would have no power to do evil of any sort to me. It may take some time for me to see it fully played out, but I eventually do see that what someone else intended for evil, He worked for my good. He once permitted another person to physically assault me. I cried out, right after, where were You, Lord? He answered, I was there. You didn't hit them back, did you? So the result was that my trust increased and the next time evil was permitted to touch me in some way, there was no doubt in my mind that He was still with me and I didn't waver in my trust by asking where He was as I had done previously.
So a great evil (physical assault) was permitted to be done to me. The person would have had no power to hurt me if God did not permit it. And yet, He worked it to my good by making my trust (which is more precious than gold) stronger. He made me able to stand firmer in trust. If nothing hard, evil or difficult had been permitted to come to me, there wouldn't have been that growth in strength for the next trial or hardship. I actually thanked Him and prayed for the person because He had caused such great good to come to me by their hand!
So a great evil (physical assault) was permitted to be done to me. The person would have had no power to hurt me if God did not permit it. And yet, He worked it to my good by making my trust (which is more precious than gold) stronger. He made me able to stand firmer in trust. If nothing hard, evil or difficult had been permitted to come to me, there wouldn't have been that growth in strength for the next trial or hardship. I actually thanked Him and prayed for the person because He had caused such great good to come to me by their hand!
Will we ever fully understand God's dealings in our life? I mostly understand what I understand because of what I've gone through.
I've seen God protecting me for over 70 years from so many things - mostly serious illness - and I worked around people in hospitals and hospices. Every cold or slight flu came and went so quickly due to prayers and my faith for healing. Then comes a double whammy - cancer upon cancer with much of my body cut out. I had so much faith and there were so many prayers. And I know my God as healer. But now nothing.
In praying about this, I sensed strongly that God allowed this - took away His shield of protection - and there was a purpose behind it. Now to my thinking, allowing is the same as sending. He could have prevented it, or healed it right away. I'm left with not really knowing His purpose, except for only one thing. This sickness is not for me. Never has been. It is for others. I'm just a vessel that He uses. Indeed, I have seen how God is using this in my family, opening hearts and compassion in a new way, using this among my friends as they see how Christ's life in a person overcomes anything and grace really is sufficient. So many things are seen.
So to argue - did He send? - or did He allow? - is really not important. What is important is that He really does cause ALL things to work for good to those who love Him. And especially to those who surrender to the trial as being from God. It helps to believe that God sends trials because then our questions and frustrations cease, and we are left curious as to just what He is doing. For we trust in His goodness and love for us. And that nothing bad will come out of it. Only good.
I've seen God protecting me for over 70 years from so many things - mostly serious illness - and I worked around people in hospitals and hospices. Every cold or slight flu came and went so quickly due to prayers and my faith for healing. Then comes a double whammy - cancer upon cancer with much of my body cut out. I had so much faith and there were so many prayers. And I know my God as healer. But now nothing.
In praying about this, I sensed strongly that God allowed this - took away His shield of protection - and there was a purpose behind it. Now to my thinking, allowing is the same as sending. He could have prevented it, or healed it right away. I'm left with not really knowing His purpose, except for only one thing. This sickness is not for me. Never has been. It is for others. I'm just a vessel that He uses. Indeed, I have seen how God is using this in my family, opening hearts and compassion in a new way, using this among my friends as they see how Christ's life in a person overcomes anything and grace really is sufficient. So many things are seen.
So to argue - did He send? - or did He allow? - is really not important. What is important is that He really does cause ALL things to work for good to those who love Him. And especially to those who surrender to the trial as being from God. It helps to believe that God sends trials because then our questions and frustrations cease, and we are left curious as to just what He is doing. For we trust in His goodness and love for us. And that nothing bad will come out of it. Only good.
Through my younger years, I lived in incest by my brother . . . In 2003, I got cancer . . . do I believe that God "permitted" these things to happen to me? NOPE, I sure don't. I attribute it to the one who is the accuser, the liar, the evil one, to this fallen world . . . death and sin entered due to one man's transgression. All evil is purported by the evil one, the devil, the god of this world . . . the whole world lies in wickedness . . . the devil as a roaring lion seeks whom he may devour . . . we are not to be ignorant of his devices . . .
As for my healing - I give all the honor and glory to God.
As for my healing - I give all the honor and glory to God.
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